Baldur's Gate: Enhanced (Obsessive Completionist) Edition

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Having just gotten Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition for a bargain on Steam, I was wondering about similar questions that I had with Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning in my Advice for Amalur thread a few months back:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=281016

So my question's basically the same: What's the best setup for a character who can accomplish any and all quests in the game to the best possible outcome? Are there any quests that are barred from you if you play a certain class or race? What's the best equipment to quest for (or is it all random)? How do I prepare for the sequel, when or if it ever gets out of the development hell it's stuck in due to contractual issues right now?

[Nerd-o-rama]

I haven't picked up the Enhanced Edition (instead, I threw every mod I could find on the original in a drunken frenzy and am now playing that), but unless they added something, there's basically nothing class-specific in Baldur's Gate 1.

I heartily recommend a human fighter to start for several reasons, mostly survivability and the potential to dual-class to Mage or Thief in the second game (keep rolling until you can afford 17 Int or Dex, respectively. Actually, you really want 16+ Dex and Con no matter what you play).

Make sure to pick up a balanced party of NPCs depending on what you want to do. Want to rob people? Keep Imoen around or pick up another Thief and pump their Open Lock and Pick Pocket skills (just don't forget Find Traps for the dungeon-crawling). You need a Mage and a Cleric or Druid of some sort to make tough fights more doable. Ranged weapons are very nice in early BG1 since everything tends to die in one hit (including you) and there are a dozen level 1 spells of sticking an enemy in place so you can pincushion it, so make sure you or your compadres have missile weapon skills.

But yeah basically just adhere to notional ideas of party balance when you pick up NPCs and use a walkthrough for the obscure sidequests and you've got nothing to worry about, unless there was a massive amount of new content added.

Oh, preparing for the sequel, just make sure you use any permanent stat-boosting items on your main character, since they're the only ones that get imported (I believe there's a permanent +1 Tome for each major stat). I don't recall it being necessary to actually pick up the items that get "imported" to BG2 with your character - they just spawn in the first dungeon for an import character but not a new one. There's only one "event flag" that carries over, and I really doubt you're the type to attempt to assassinate and loot Drizzt Do'Urden. You also, as I mentioned above, should consider the possibility of Dual Classing in BG2. Gender and race matters more there, but only in terms of romances, and class matters in terms of the stronghold and associated side quests you can get (although you can easily mod your game to let you get any or all of the strongholds with one playthrough, too.)

[Archpaladin Zousha]

The Enhanced Edition lets you dual-class in the first game, from the looks of things. It has the packages of II available as well.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Well, you could always dual-class in the first game, it was just rare to get to a high enough level to make it worthwhile. At least without the expansion pack.

Kits, though, those are a game-changer. My normal advice for easymoding through the games would be "play a vanilla fighter in BG1 and select Kensai as your kit in BG2" which gets you the lovely brokenness of the Kensai in 2 without having a **** AC in BG1, where it actually matters.

The following kits are pretty good. I'm still going to stick to warrior-types for BG1 just because getting killed by the tutorial assassins in Candlekeep is embarrassing.

Kensai (Fighter): In the beginning, your AC will be terrible. By the mid-game of BG2, you'll be an unstoppable human blender, especially if you dual-class to Mage and basically negate all your weaknesses with buff spells.
Berserker (Fighter): Strictly better than a vanilla fighter unless you're making a dedicated archer (don't), since the rage features gives you a bunch of absolutely invaluable immunities.
All Three Paladin Kits: Give you immunities to 2 each of the game's really damn annoying debuffs. Inquisitors are broken when fighting mages (most of the bosses in both games) thanks to their super-Dispel Magic, but get just about no other Paladin abilities. Undead Slayers are specialized in killing about 75% of the annoying enemies in Shadows of Amn, and Cavaliers are just vanilla Paladins with immunities and bonuses against rare but tough opponents (and they have to use throwing axes instead of bows, woo). Note that Paladins and Rangers can't dual-class.

Protip: if you play a Paladin, at least be prepared to dedicate a fair number of proficiency dots to 2-Handed Swords in BG2. Trust me.

Swashbuckler (Thief): The way to play a Fighter with some Thief skills without actually dual/multiclassing. Any kind of Thief gets Set Trap, which at higher levels becomes the most hilariously broken damage-dealing ability in the game.
Archer (Ranger): If you want to play a dedicated sniper, use this. Rangers also cannot dual-class.
Any Kind of Cleric: More survivable than mages at early levels, with almost as much quadratic power. Fighter-dual-Cleric is also good, just make sure you specialize in blunt weapons.

Anything more squishy than these is probably the purview of a second or later playthrough, given BG1's impressive levels of lethality. A Blade-kit bard might survive long enough to get awesome, but I've never tried one.

Finally, I recommend against a multi-class character if you're planning to go all the way through Throne of Bhaal. Much like the Mystic Theurge conundrum of 3.5th Edition, you just plain won't get to a high enough level in your class features by spreading out your experience so much.

Oh, and one more thing. If you play a class that CAN dual-class to mage in 2, I really recommend doing so. It's that good.

[Triaxx]

You could always dual class in BG1. That wasn't added by the BG2 engine. However, being able to dual-class into something USEFUL was.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Oh, I was wrong about how stuff was imported before. Well, the main important thing to hold onto is the Golden Pantaloons. Whatever you do, DON'T drop/sell those.

[Morty]

Mind you, there's really no telling how long it'll be before Baldur's Gate II gets an Enchanced Edition.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Really, the important thing to remember is that there's no way to really exclude yourself from quests or plot as long as you explore everywhere and save before conversations (or really, just use a guide (http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/75251-baldurs-gate/faqs/2456) if you care that much). Any character build advice will be based on survivability of the game's combats.

[Tengu_temp]

Any kind of Thief gets Set Trap, which at higher levels becomes the most hilariously broken damage-dealing ability in the game.

That reminds me of a hilarious way to cheat the technically most dangerous enemy in Throne of Bhaal.
Set up six Spike Traps around the place where Demogorgon spawns, then summon him. Watch in amusement as one of the world's most powerful demons gets killed before it can do anything to you.
Good times.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Oh, also, if you're curious, the "canonical" party to finish BG1 with - the ones BG2 assumes you ended with, that is - is yourself, Imoen, Khalid, Jaheira, Minsc, and Dynaheir. It's not that important and easy to handwave given the months in time between the two games, and don't feel bound by it - BG1 has a lot of quality NPCs, and also Garrick.


That reminds me of a hilarious way to cheat the technically most dangerous enemy in Throne of Bhaal.
Set up six Spike Traps around the place where Demogorgon spawns, then summon him. Watch in amusement as one of the world's most powerful demons gets killed before it can do anything to you.
Good times.

Never have our avatars been more appropriate than these posts in this thread.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

So what's the difference between multiclassing and dual-classing? And how would I do it best if I wanted to be a Fighter/Mage or something? And what would be a good weapon to use as a Fighter/Mage or a Fighter/Mage/Thief?

[Cheesegear]

What's the best equipment to quest for (or is it all random)?

The best equipment is all in fixed locations / quest rewards.

I believe the best weapon in the game is the +5 Holy Avenger (Two-Handed Sword), only usable by Paladins. But, then I also believe that by being a Paladin, you may lose out on one or maybe two quests in the game. But I doubt it, since the game doesn't punish you like that. And by being a Paladin you aren't a Kensai/Mage. :smallwink:

Fairly certain any class can play through all the quests in the game.

The only class/alignment restrictions the game hits you with is for items. And, since it's a multi-character game, there is certainly a way to use every item in the game provided you have the right NPCs and don't mind half the party being Evil and half the party being Good.


So what's the difference between multiclassing and dual-classing?

Multi-Classing is when you share your XP between classes.
i.e; You get 40xp, 20 goes to Fighter, 20 goes to Mage. You level very slowly, and it's not advised since at a certain point, Multi-classing isn't helpful because the bad class is slowing down the good class.

Dual-Classing means that you reach a certain point in your career - for Fighters it's when you reach 5-stars in your favourite weapon - and then you STOP LEVELLING in that class, and start again from Level 1 in a new class.

Once you reach the level you were (or the same XP amount), you get back all of the stuff from your previous class, but, you only continue levelling in your new class. Due to the fact that you get XP from learning spells in BG2, Dual-Classing a Mage can get you back into a good level very fast.


And what would be a good weapon to use as a Fighter/Mage or a Fighter/Mage/Thief?

Long Swords or Katanas.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Long swords or katanas and dual-wielding is the most consistently good damage in the trilogy (don't invest solely in katanas during BG1, though, because there aren't any), followed by two-handed swords. There's also some very nice hammers, one bitchin' flail, and some good short and longbows.

And dual-classing works pretty much as cheesegear said. The important thing to remember is that you'll be temporarily losing all the abilities of your first class (proficiencies, armor types, special abilities, etc.) until your level in your second class becomes higher than your level in your first class. After that, you get all your old abilities back and keep leveling in your second class.

Also note dual-classing is only available to humans, and I'm pretty sure it only works between Fighter, Mage, Thief, Cleric, and maybe Druid (you can choose a kit for your first class but not your second). You also need a 17 in whatever stat is most important to your second class (Str, Int, Dex, or Wis).

[Johnny Blade]

If you want to go easy mode, play an Archer.

For a Fighter/Mage, I'd recommend playing a Gnome Fighter/Illusionist (multi-class). Gnomes get some good bonuses and don't lose out on an important stat. Illusionists can cast more spells per day but lose Necromancy access, something that doesn't really matter all that much, especially to a Fighter/Mage.

Don't play a Fighter/Mage/Thief or Fighter/Cleric/Mage. Also don't play a Monk. Apart from that, I think everything's workable. (Although some, like Kensai or Sorcerer, are hard to play right and require some prior knowledge.)


I believe the best weapon in the game is the +5 Holy Avenger (Two-Handed Sword), only usable by Paladins.
That's in BG2.

In BG1, there are:
Spider's Bane (2H Sword), loot
Dagger of Venom, sold
Varscona (Long Sword), loot
Ashideena (Warhammer), loot

Sorted by quality, although it should be noted that while Spider's Bane is amazing, wielding it means you can't have a shield, and you'll feel the difference.
You also get a good short sword, but that's really late in the game.

Enhanced Edition adds a good Mace that you can find in a chest.

This was for melee weapons. For ranged, you can pretty much take whatever as long as it's not Slings. Long Bows are probably best and good ammo for them drops a lot more frequently than for other ranged weapons, but EE added some good Darts, too.

There aren't a lot of really good weapons to choose from, so what you pick for your character is probably going to be influenced by what NPCs you want in your party, or vice versa. For example, I there's Yeslick, a Dwarven Fighter/Cleric, and he really likes hammers, so if you plan to pick him up, you should give your character another weapon type.




EDIT: As for dual-classing, it works for all class combinations that are available via multi-classing, except combinations of 3 classes.
So you can make a Ranger and dual into Cleric, or a Druid that duals into Fighter. But not a Druid that duals into Thief, because that's no valid class combination according to AD&D rules.

[GloatingSwine]

Re: Dual classing.

The two most common dual class options in BG2 were, IIRC, Kensai/Mage and Swashbuckler/Mage. Kensage is cheesy because you get the Kensai bonuses whilst wearing mage robes, and Swashage is basically broken hard if you put a little effort into cheese hunting.

Thief levels give diminishing returns pretty fast because the level of thief skills you need to do anything you need thief skills for is pretty low, and their early levels are cheap, so it's pretty easy, even in BG1, to dual class out of thief and still get your thief mojo back. (Dual class out of Thief kits at 6 and you'll still hit mage level 9, the same as a pure mage would, within the BG1 XP cap)

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Okay, so say I wanna do a Fighter/Mage with dual-wielding longswords (this sounds so much like my KOTOR Revan it's almost silly). When should I jump from Fighter to Mage? Or should I play a Cavalier instead? I'm being told in a guide I'm reading the fear effects are BAD, so someone that can grant immunity to that should be worthwhile.

[Johnny Blade]

Protection from Fear is a low-level spell for all spellcasters. Don't worry about it, just don't forget it. (Cavaliers, or Paladins in general, are pretty good, though.)


There's not really a great point to dual from Fighter to Mage in BG1. You'll either be bad as a Fighter or have a lot of downtime while earning those Fighter levels back. I'd choose a multi-classed character instead.
If you really want to play a dual-classed character, you should take Fighter to level 3 at least, because that's when you get another point to put into weapon proficiencies. Afterwards, good levels to dual would be:
5, because BG has an experience cap and Fighter level 5 is the last one that won't affect your maximum Mage level.
7, because you get an extra half attack per round at this point, and extra attacks are huge.
Don't dual after level 7 or you'll hit the experience cap before getting your Fighter levels back.

I'd probably go with level 5, because it at least won't take you too long to get those levels back and your spellcasting will catch up quickly (you don't want to rely on low level spells against Sword Spiders).





Re: Dual classing.

The two most common dual class options in BG2 were, IIRC, Kensai/Mage and Swashbuckler/Mage. Kensage is cheesy because you get the Kensai bonuses whilst wearing mage robes,
Berserker/Mage is better, though. Kensai/Mage lets you trick the game, which always feels nice, but Mage buffs + Berserker Rage make you nearly invincible.
Of course, any Fighter/Mage is going to be really good.


and Swashage is basically broken hard if you put a little effort into cheese hunting.
I don't really understand how a couple of Swashbuckler levels could ever break anything. Could you explain that?

[Calemyr]

Okay, so say I wanna do a Fighter/Mage with dual-wielding longswords (this sounds so much like my KOTOR Revan it's almost silly). When should I jump from Fighter to Mage? Or should I play a Cavalier instead? I'm being told in a guide I'm reading the fear effects are BAD, so someone that can grant immunity to that should be worthwhile.

Fighter dualed into mage is definitely a powerful option, particularly the Berserker and Kensei kits since BGEE doesn't allow you to pick a mage kit while dual-classing (or multi-classing if you aren't a gnome).

Berserker is generally quite useful and has a powerful panic button ability (beserk renders you immune to fear and a host of debilitating status effects, including imprison). Kensai cost you very little, since you can't wear armor anyway, but offers a good boost to offensive potential.

The Swashbuckler Thief is a good option for original class, too, as the defensive bonus doesn't come at the cost of robes and the bonus to hit and damage effect weapon spells as well (such as Melf's Minute Meteors).

Playing a paladin will rob you of any opportunity to recruit Dorn, the resident blackguard. He's evil, so that may not be a loss, but NPCs in BG1 are so incredibly flat that passing up a nuanced character like him hurts me to consider.

One other note, however: If you're playing a multi/dual-classed mage type (other than a Kensai), you'll almost certainly want Dorn. The last stage of his personal story (available in chapter 5) nets you some elven chain - chain mail armor that you can use your full arcane and/or roguish talents in. And if you don't use it, Imoen always looks good in it.

But if you're big on the completionist angle, however, I have to warn you: you are not the limiting factor in that equation. You can only have 5 party members and dozens of options.

* If you're playing the canon party, you'd be using Imoen, Jaheira, Khalid, Minsc, and Dynaheir. Those are the members you're assumed to have used when starting BG2. It's a pretty balanced and powerful group, though Khalid's low morale can hurt.

* The new characters (Dorn, Neera, Rasaad, and Baeloth) have a lot more personality than the rest of the cast, who frankly have nothing but a unique voice set and some dialogue at their recruitment. I tend to use them and Imoen, myself.

[Nerd-o-rama]

I don't really understand how a couple of Swashbuckler levels could ever break anything. Could you explain that?

Set Trap, maybe? Does Spike Trap damage go off your Thief Level or Character Level?

Also, playing a gnome will lock you out of romance sidequests in BG2 (and as far as I know the ones added in BGEE), and the purpose of this thread was to see as much content as possible. Also, multiclasses fall behind in BG2. Just for BG1 though, that's a pretty epic combo.

Anyway, the above dual-classing advice is quite good (if you were starting in BG2, I'd go for Fighter 7 for the extra attack and Proficiency, but starting from scratch, 5 is fine). If you want to play Revan and cleave your way through the game like Ginsu cutlery, dual-wielging Kensage is the way to go (Proficiencies should go to longswords and TWF first, katanas and one dot in hammer can wait until BG2. Fighter-dual-Mages get to put later Mage prof points into Fighter weapons, right?)

Paladin Kits have to buff less, but really, you can cover their immunities with a mix of Mage and Cleric/Druid spells anyway.

Oh, and I should mention for the sake of completionism that you CAN dual class a Ranger, but only the Cleric. I have no idea why this combo exists, but it seems that you can dual-class anything that's a valid multi-class combo.

[arguskos]

Oh, and I should mention for the sake of completionism that you CAN dual class a Ranger, but only the Cleric. I have no idea why this combo exists, but it seems that you can dual-class anything that's a valid multi-class combo.
It's an artifact from the old days of D&D 2nd Edition, where Ranger/Cleric was a possible combination. It's... a pretty strange combo and not very good (except from RP purposes, where it's actually pretty neat).

[Archpaladin Zousha]

So the companions in BG1 don't have personal quests or romances?

[Morty]

Nope. Companions in BG1 don't really have much in terms of personality, unfortunately. Those added by the Enchanced Edition are the exception, though - they do have personal quests and a good bit of dialogue.

[Nerd-o-rama]

So the companions in BG1 don't have personal quests or romances?

Quite a few of them - even most - have personal quests, actually, and they'll usually mention them straight off. They're just not terribly complex and usually just involve rescuing another NPC or killing someone you were going to anyway. The new NPCs added in BGEE apparently have romance plots, but I'm pretty sure that no one else does without mods.

[Johnny Blade]

Yup, there are no romances in original BG1. Just some basic banter and some quests, like you said, but nothing all too involved.


Set Trap, maybe? Does Spike Trap damage go off your Thief Level or Character Level?
I'm not sure, but that would require dual-classing to Mage after taking a Swashbuckler to level twenty-something, because Spike Trap is a High Level Ability.

Swashbuckler bonuses applying to Minute Meteors is neat, though. I never thought of that.


Also, playing a gnome will lock you out of romance sidequests in BG2 (and as far as I know the ones added in BGEE), and the purpose of this thread was to see as much content as possible.
Aerie will romance a Gnome, but not having a choice isn't much better than having no romance at all, so, yeah, that speaks against a Gnome.
If the character is supposed to be ported to BG2 at all, that is.


Also, multiclasses fall behind in BG2. Just for BG1 though, that's a pretty epic combo.
Multi-classes are constantly going up and down as far as relative power is concerned. Fighter/Mages have issues with their hitpoint growth early to mid BG1, and then their level progression tables give them trouble in late midgame BG2. But they always make a strong comeback, and by the end of ToB, I wouldn't put any class above a Gnomish Fighter/Illusionist. A Berserker/Mage is going to be on par, and by then also a Cleric/Mage multi. But those have their own issues.
And all dual-classes fall behind by definition, because they need to spend some time earning back levels.
(You still can't go wrong with any Fighter/Mage combo. I just like to talk about them because I've played them all. :smallbiggrin:)


Proficiencies should go to longswords and TWF first, katanas and one dot in hammer can wait until BG2. Fighter-dual-Mages get to put later Mage prof points into Fighter weapons, right?
Yes, after earning the Fighter class back.
So if you're Fighter (7)/Mage (X), you can put proficiency points into Fighter weapons from Mage level 8 on.

Anyway, I'd second your suggestion for vanilla BG2, but BG1's Enhanced Edition made Grand Mastery (5 points in a weapon) good again, so it pays to focus on just one weapon type. There just aren't enough proficiency points for Long Swords, Katanas and something else to get that high.
(I don't think there's really a perfect solution when it comes to what weapon to pick, and would decide based on when exactly the character duals, because that dictates when he/she's going to do how much fighting.)


It's an artifact from the old days of D&D 2nd Edition, where Ranger/Cleric was a possible combination. It's... a pretty strange combo and not very good (except from RP purposes, where it's actually pretty neat).
It's a good multi-class, because you don't really lose anything. (Multi-classed Fighters can only specialize in weapon classes instead of getting up to Grand Mastery, but Rangers can only ever specialize whether multi-classed or not.) Rangers level up slower than Fighters, which is going to be an issue in BG2 especially, but it's still good.
As a dual-class, it's good in the BG games (but not Icewind Dale, despite both games using the same engine), because being a Ranger grants you access to Druid spells, so a Ranger/Cleric gets all priest spells.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

So it's literally impossible to see all the content in the entire game on a single playthrough?

[arguskos]

So it's literally impossible to see all the content in the entire game on a single playthrough?
Without mods to romance everyone in one playthrough, yes?

-A

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Oh, I mean doing all companion sidequests.

[Johnny Blade]

So it's literally impossible to see all the content in the entire game on a single playthrough?
Yes for BG2. Here is what you will definitely miss:

All the romances except the one you choose to pursue. Some offer more content than others.
All the strongholds except one (that you must be eligible for).
A faction questline. (You get to choose between two rival guilds as part of the main quest.)

That should be it, unless you count quests that offer different solutions.


In BG1, you can see everything the game has to offer. There's a questline in the city of Baldur's Gate that requires a Thief in the party, but it doesn't have to be your main character.
Roleplaying your character can lock you out of content, of course, but that's it.


EDIT:

Oh, I mean doing all companion sidequests.
You can do all of the sidequests by swapping companions. There's some content you'll only get to see by romancing the NPC in question, but that's it.

[Calemyr]

So it's literally impossible to see all the content in the entire game on a single playthrough?

As was said, the NPC sidequests are almost entirely main quest stuff, anyway. Jaheira, Khalid, Xzar, and Montaron all want you to complete the second chapter, for instance, while Branwen wants to be with you when you kill someone you have to kill to start the third chapter.

The only real quest is the rescue/murder of Dynaheir, depending on if you do it Minsc's way or Edwin's way. Talking to Edwin only after you have Dynaheir in the party is the only way to get all three in your party.



You can do all of the sidequests by swapping companions. There's some content you'll only get to see by romancing the NPC in question, but that's it.

But then, most NPCs just drop off the map if you remove them from the party.

[Nerd-o-rama]

But then, most NPCs just drop off the map if you remove them from the party.

I'm assuming Enhanced Edition fixed this, since most of what it does aside from the new companions seems to be adding rules changes/convenience systems by updating the game to the BG2 engine. Easier NPC re-recruitment was one of those convenience systems.

[Cheesegear]

But then, most NPCs just drop off the map if you remove them from the party.

They do? Weird. They always tell me that they're going to back to [Place], and that's where I can find them again. At least in BG2. In BG1, none of the Companion quests really matter because you do all of them anyway if you end up visiting every area.

[Nerd-o-rama]

There's a few things like "rescuing" Skie or Shar-Teel's interactions with Angelo that you'll only see with specific companions. Admittedly, most of the interesting things with companions in BG1 are just their interactions with each other. Eldoth, Skie, and Garrick, for example, are reportedly hilarious, although why you would ever have one of them in your party, let alone all three, I have absolutely no idea.

There's also Minsc, Dynaheir, and Edwin, or the Harper/Zhentarim rumble, for less obscure combos.

[Triaxx]

I'm a big fan of bards, so I rather like Garrick. And combined with the cleric from the carnival, he makes a viable alternative to Khalid and Jaheira.

Plus I spent a long while playing the BG1 demo, where party choice was a bit limited, so I used Garrick a lot. He's not the greatest bard in the world, but he's pretty okay.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Alright, so my character's going to go with the "canon" party. What should I play as a result of that? I'm torn between going Paladin or doing the Fighter/Mage thing. And if I do Fighter/Mage, what's the best race to do it with? Paladin's a no-brainer, as I can only be human for that.

Also, is it absolutely crucial to go dual-wielding longswords? Or can I get away with using a less-optimized setup? How punishing IS the game, and how optimized must I be to survive it?

[Johnny Blade]

Alright, so my character's going to go with the "canon" party. What should I play as a result of that? I'm torn between going Paladin or doing the Fighter/Mage thing. And if I do Fighter/Mage, what's the best race to do it with? Paladin's a no-brainer, as I can only be human for that.
Either one will be fine because the canon NPCs got all bases covered by themselves.
You will probably appreciate the little extra healing a Paladin brings because Jaheira is only half Druid, but it's not really that huge. And a Paladin also won't have to share spell scrolls with other party members, but this is only really a concern if you intend to dual-class Imoen to Mage.


Also, is it absolutely crucial to go dual-wielding longswords? Or can I get away with using a less-optimized setup? How punishing IS the game, and how optimized must I be to survive it?
Who said that dual-wielding Long Swords is the one way to go in BG1? It's not.

Again, the really good BG1 weapons are:


Spider's Bane (2H Sword), loot
Dagger of Venom, sold
Varscona (Long Sword), loot
Ashideena (Warhammer), loot

Sorted by quality, although it should be noted that while Spider's Bane is amazing, wielding it means you can't have a shield, and you'll feel the difference.
You also get a good short sword, but that's really late in the game.

Enhanced Edition adds a good Mace that you can find in a chest.

This was for melee weapons. For ranged, you can pretty much take whatever as long as it's not Slings. Long Bows are probably best and good ammo for them drops a lot more frequently than for other ranged weapons, but EE added some good Darts, too.
In this case, the companions' proficiencies more or less dictate that Minsc will get Spider's Bane and Khalid will get Varscona.
I would build Jaheira towards Daggers, because the Dagger of Venom is just a lot better than everything else she can get in the game. Imoen will end up with Short Swords and Short Bows (maybe Darts), most likely.

This leaves your character with Warhammers or Maces.

If you pick Maces, you should put your other proficiency points into a ranged weapon. (Meaning at character creation you put two into Maces and two into whatever ranged weapon you choose.) I'd recommend Crossbows or Darts because Khalid, Minsc and probably Imoen already use bows of some kind.

If you pick Warhammers, you can safely put your remaining proficiency points into dual-wielding, because there are thrown versions of them. You don't need to, though, because for a variety of reasons, dual-wielding isn't as good in BG1 as it is in BG2. In the beginning of the game, it's actually a really bad idea not to carry the biggest shield you can into melee.
If you plan to import the character into BG2, I'd probably still go for dual-wielding, because proficiency points are limited, and so is the use of ranged weapons in BG2. If you're planning for BG1 only, I'd invest in a ranged weapon.

[Morty]

Doesn't Minsc start with a Mace proficiency in the Enchanced Edition? If so, you could probably have him dual-wield maces. The companions' proficiencies are a bit messed up in Enchanced Edition in general, mind you - they didn't pay a lot of attention transitioning them from the BG1 system. Or maybe they couldn't change them, I'm not sure. Either way, it's not really a huge problem if one party member doesn't wield a top-of-the-line weapon.

[IronFist]

Mind you, there's really no telling how long it'll be before Baldur's Gate II gets an Enchanced Edition.

Curse Atari for that.

[Johnny Blade]

Doesn't Minsc start with a Mace proficiency in the Enchanced Edition? If so, you could probably have him dual-wield maces. The companions' proficiencies are a bit messed up in Enchanced Edition in general, mind you - they didn't pay a lot of attention transitioning them from the BG1 system. Or maybe they couldn't change them, I'm not sure.
I thought Minsc starts with only 2H Swords and Long Bows, but now that you mention it, I think I was wrong.

If he has a point in Maces, giving the main character 2H Swords instead is a great idea for a Paladin if he/she's going to be used for BG2 as well.

Otherwise, well, I think he has one point in Maces, one in Long Bows, two in Two-Weapon Fighting, and he's only going to get two more throughout the game, so he can't max them all out. Of course, if you're using him for melee almost exclusively, you can do without the second point in Long Bows. And the third TWF point isn't really that important, either. So definitely a good suggestion.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Alright, so my character's going to go with the "canon" party. What should I play as a result of that? I'm torn between going Paladin or doing the Fighter/Mage thing. And if I do Fighter/Mage, what's the best race to do it with? Paladin's a no-brainer, as I can only be human for that.

Also, is it absolutely crucial to go dual-wielding longswords? Or can I get away with using a less-optimized setup? How punishing IS the game, and how optimized must I be to survive it?

The only thing you actually need to be able to survive is hit points inversely proportional to your tolerance for reloading. Your particular combat style doesn't make much of a difference if you have a balanced party of NPCs (which the "canon" guys are, although I usually trade Jaheira for one of the full clerics and Khalid for a ranged fighter like Kivan. Actually, Khalid's a fair shot with a longbow even if you do keep him, and you can get a lot of stuff done with a mundane longbow in this game).

What I'm trying to say here is that you're going to die a lot no matter what you do just because it's low level D&D. I only really emphasized fighters for the extra HP. Play whichever class you'll have fun with, you've got a good list of findable weapons above, and quicksave often.

Also, either Elf or Half-Elf make good multi-fighter-mages, really. The only difference is +1 Dex -1 Con, and since stats are rolled...and remember, it's perfectly alright to just play through this game with a straight fighter and keep your Int and Dex high for options if BG2EE ever comes out. Dynaheir is enough arcane prowess for this game, and Dynaheir and Imoen are more than enough. It's BG2 where having two mages becomes kind of mandatory.

[Runestar]

I don't know why, but when I boot up BG or BG2 these days, I can only stomach playing solo. The thought of micro-managing multiple npcs just feels like way too much work. :smallannoyed:

That said, I find that elven fighter/mage is a very viable solo combination in BG1, but sucks in BG2 (unless you have TOB installed), because of the loss of higher lv spells.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I'm well aware of the legal troubles. I bought the Enhanced Edition before I learned of them. It was...kind of an impulse buy during my Steam Sale binge. I also picked up Crusader Kings II and the Mount and Blade collection during this time as well. More recently, however, I also picked up a 4-pack of the original game, with Baldur's Gate, Tales of the Sword Coast, Shadows of Amn and Throne of Bhaal for a bargain at a Half-Price Books. In the event that the legal troubles deep-six the Enhanced Edition of the sequel, I'll just revert to the older copy. It's kind of wonky on my widescreen monitor, though.

[Morty]

There should be no problem with the normal Baldur's Gate 2 on a widescreen monitor. I used to play it on such a monitor myself and it worked fine - there are some pretty high resolutions in the settings. You probably won't be able to import saves from BG:EE to a normal BG2, but importing doesn't matter much in those games anyway. They were made before it became the big thing it is today.

[Johnny Blade]

Also, behold, the power of mods (http://www.gibberlings3.net/widescreen/).


And, since Nerd-o-rama brought it up, something about race choices for Fighter/Mage multiclasses in BG1:

Mechanically, it goes like this:
Gnomes are best, because they get huge saving throw bonuses and get to be Illusionists instead of regular Mages, which is a good specialization in general and for Fighter/Mages especially.
Elves are next in line, because they get some really useful bonuses and resistances. The Constitution penalty isn't nice, but can be negated by a magic item later.
Half-Elves are boring but still okay.

Of course, when you look at romance options in BG2, only Half-Elves get to choose between all three female ones, Elves have two options, and for Gnomes it's Aerie or lonely nights.
Anomen, the only romance option for female protagonists, isn't into Gnomes either.

[Nerd-o-rama]

I don't know why, but when I boot up BG or BG2 these days, I can only stomach playing solo. The thought of micro-managing multiple npcs just feels like way too much work. :smallannoyed:

Modern RPGs have spoiled you with their AI-controlled sidekicks. Embrace the genre's tactical wargaming roots!

[Cheesegear]

With Tutu I went through with the canon party.

BG1; Imoen (dual to Mage), Minsc, Dynaheir, Jaheira, Khalid

I went with a Paladin, because I planned to take my party into BG2, and my party was going to be mostly good anyway. This party also lacks heals, which the Paladin can also sort of fill in with.

BG2 Spoiler 'lerts.
BG2; Imoen/Yoshimo/Imoen, Minsc, Aerie, Jaheria, Viconia

I picked up Viconia because I'm a Paladin, and it totally makes sense to pick her up in BG2.
1. She's the best Cleric in the game, and 2. She's the best cleric in the game. Also, you can change her alignment so she can be in a Good party.

In the beginning, this party was pretty tough on the lack of arcane magic. But, that's okay because I didn't like the fact that you could Learn Scrolls To Victory anyway. In late game, Imoen serves decently enough if you've saved your Scrolls.

Overall, it's a fairly balanced party. Which basically means that it's actually a pretty weak party all things considered. :smalltongue:

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Okay, I've been looking through some of the mods for use with the 4-in-1 boxset I got, and I understand what I have to do...I think. But I'm concerned that something might not be installing correctly. I do a custom install and check all the boxes, and it says there's no room for installation. I tried using the easy tutu once, after everything was done, and it said some files were missing. I'm wondering what's up here. Plus, when I tried a custom install of TotSC, it stopped at about 63% and then went non-responsive. What am I doing wrong? I've been told with this Tutu mod, I'll basically have the benefits of the EE (except the additional Black Pits and the new NPCs) in the original game.

How can I get this to work?

[Nerd-o-rama]

Okay, I've been looking through some of the mods for use with the 4-in-1 boxset I got, and I understand what I have to do...I think. But I'm concerned that something might not be installing correctly. I do a custom install and check all the boxes, and it says there's no room for installation. I tried using the easy tutu once, after everything was done, and it said some files were missing. I'm wondering what's up here. Plus, when I tried a custom install of TotSC, it stopped at about 63% and then went non-responsive. What am I doing wrong? I've been told with this Tutu mod, I'll basically have the benefits of the EE (except the additional Black Pits and the new NPCs) in the original game.

How can I get this to work?

Do a full install of BG1 to somewhere where you have room for a full install, maybe?

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Do a full install of BG1 to somewhere where you have room for a full install, maybe?
I don't know what that means. :smallconfused:

[Triaxx]

I used Trilogy, which fixes the Scrolls issue, by reducing them to 10x spell level XP.

[GloatingSwine]

Okay, I've been looking through some of the mods for use with the 4-in-1 boxset I got, and I understand what I have to do...I think. But I'm concerned that something might not be installing correctly. I do a custom install and check all the boxes, and it says there's no room for installation.

Ye Olde Baldur's Gate installer was written for windows 98 systems, and does not believe in the existence of hard drives over a certain size. If you have a hard drive bigger than it's ancient brains can cope with it will report the size incorrectly. As long as you actually do have enough room for it to install, you can just ignore the message saying you don't.

If your install is freezing up during the ToSC install you may have a dirty or scratched disc, try cleaning it or getting it skimmed.

If you haven't done a full install, and it sounds like you haven't, then tutu will cry.

[Pronounceable]

I'm going to mention this mod here (http://www.gibberlings3.net/level1npcs/) because it's a cool mod. While this is definitely not something for a first timer, nor does it actually work with BGEE, making any NPC into whatever class you want is a hugely good thing after you've ran through the game a few times. You can even have them kitted up if you're using Tutu or BGT (Montaron is totally assasin, man). This way you don't have to have dudes you don't like just because they're useful/strong and can have any silly party that'd never work out normally (such as the aforementioned three stooges Garrick-Eldoth-Skie). Now admittedly, it's not such a great thing since all BG1 NPCs are mostly statblocks with faces but there's a certain other mod (http://www.gibberlings3.net/bg1npc/) (whose quality is suspect and highly variable) that can spice it up.

...So what I'm saying is that you've not obsessive completionisted BG saga before you've gone nuts with mods. Play the regular game first though (with bugfix-utility mods), that's pretty important.

[Johnny Blade]

If you haven't done a full install, and it sounds like you haven't, then tutu will cry.
Tutu also needs a BG2 installation. Not sure if it needs ToB on top of it, because I use Baldur's Gate Trilogy instead.

To make sure, you should just make a full install of everything and then run Tutu.



There are some missing files bugs with videos and areas and whatever. I've never encountered them personally, so I don't know what specifically could be wrong in this case. It's easy to fix them, though: just search your CD for the missing files and copy-paste.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Oh yeah. Tutu needs Baldur's Gate, Tales of the Sword Coast, and BG2 full installs. ToB is optional in general, but required for EasyTuTu I think.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Okay, now I've gotten everything to work properly and EasyTutu installed, but nothing seems different in the Baldur's Gate character creation. There's no half-orc option, for example, and there's no "Bastard Swords" proficiency or the whole Two-Weapon or one-weapon proficiency slots. What's going on now? What'd I do wrong this time? :smallsigh:

[GloatingSwine]

Launched the wrong executable.

You don't launch baldur's gate 1 any more, because all the content is imported into BG2. Just run BG2 and it gives you the option to play BG1 fully in the BG2 engine.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Okay, now I've gotten everything to work properly and EasyTutu installed, but nothing seems different in the Baldur's Gate character creation. There's no half-orc option, for example, and there's no "Bastard Swords" proficiency or the whole Two-Weapon or one-weapon proficiency slots. What's going on now? What'd I do wrong this time? :smallsigh:

It's either what GloatingSwine said or TuTu created its own executable in its own folder for BG1, depending what options you picked/which version of TuTu you used.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I used EasyTutu. And I just checked Baldur's Gate II and I don't see any option to play BG1 on it.

[Calemyr]

I used EasyTutu. And I just checked Baldur's Gate II and I don't see any option to play BG1 on it.

BG Trilogy allows that. Tutu would just assume BG1.

Always favored Trilogy, myself. BG2 is the better part of the two, so why not just integrate BG1 into it?

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I'm confused. What do you mean? I have the 4-in-1 boxset.

[Nerd-o-rama]

I'm confused. What do you mean? I have the 4-in-1 boxset.

He's talking about a different mod that's an alternative to TuTu.

Anyway, where did you install TuTu? It should have been a separate directory from your BG1 install. Go there and there should be another baldur.exe, which is the one you're looking for. EasyTuTu actually re-creates all the game files so you keep your clean install of BG1, which is what you're trying to play on right now.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

On the desktop.

EDIT: Okay. Found it, it's working. Now all I need to do is figure out how to set the resolution so everything doesn't look squished.

[Triaxx]

Either in the same folder with the TuTu install there should be a config program for that, or look up the Widescreen mod from... Gibberlings3 I believe, which will let you play in more acceptable format size.

[Nerd-o-rama]

On the desktop.

EDIT: Okay. Found it, it's working. Now all I need to do is figure out how to set the resolution so everything doesn't look squished.


Either in the same folder with the TuTu install there should be a config program for that, or look up the Widescreen mod from... Gibberlings3 I believe, which will let you play in more acceptable format size.

Either get the Widescreen mod or just play in Windowed mode. Trust me on this.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Either get the Widescreen mod or just play in Windowed mode. Trust me on this.
I want the Widescreen mod. I'm just not sure how to get it on Tutu.

[Johnny Blade]

Generally, you just copy the mod into the relevant game folder, extract and install it there.
I've never used Tutu, so I don't know what the relevant folder is, but that shouldn't be hard to find out.

Widescreen doesn't really have any conflicts with anything (except some GUI mod, I think), so there should be no problem.

[Triaxx]

It's actually easier than that. Find the TuTu folder, download the mod, and run the .exe. It'll ask which folder and it's pretty good at finding the right folder by default. Change the target and hit install. Then go to the TuTu folder, and run the widescreensetup file. Make sure you know the dimensions for your monitor, then punch them in and viola. Widescreen awesomeness.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Annnnd now it looks like a windowed version in a giant sea of black. (My monitor's 1920x1080)

[Calemyr]

Annnnd now it looks like a windowed version in a giant sea of black. (My monitor's 1920x1080)

The menu screens, yes, but in my experience the actual game isn't like that. Are you actually in the game now and it's still like that?

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I don't know. I haven't actually started a game yet, as I'm leaving on a 5-day vacation soon.

[Calemyr]

I don't know. I haven't actually started a game yet, as I'm leaving on a 5-day vacation soon.

Good. Then my money is on the actual game running fine, but the menu screens being like that. They always were for me. That was because, I believe, the buttons weren't really designed to scale with screen resolution. Nothing was, in fact. The actual game will be much the same, you'll just see more of the map instead of black space.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Just checked it. It's workin' fine. Thanks for everything guys. :smallsmile:

[Nerd-o-rama]

Oh, and if you end up with bright green water, go into your TuTu directory's bgconfig program and turn off 3D acceleration. There's a modmod that also fixes it, but honestly, what's Baldur's Gate going to do with 3D acceleration?

[Johnny Blade]

The menu screens, yes, but in my experience the actual game isn't like that. Are you actually in the game now and it's still like that?
Haha, I kind of assumed the in-game resolution was screwed up and was totally confused because I had never even heard of an issue like that. :smallbiggrin:


Also, sort of relevant: is the Beregost bug still a thing?

[Nerd-o-rama]

Haha, I kind of assumed the in-game resolution was screwed up and was totally confused because I had never even heard of an issue like that. :smallbiggrin:


Also, sort of relevant: is the Beregost bug still a thing?

Wasn't for me, but I might have gotten lucky.

Protip to Zousha: save right before you go to Beregost and don't overwrite that save until you've left that town and come back without any issues.