How to use the Great Crossbow?

[Qc Storm]

The Great Crossbow is a silly weapon. Totally breaking the "Exotic-Weapons-Must-Suck" rule, it comes packaged with a whopping 2 stage damage increase and expanded critical range. Put wheels under it and its a cannon. Remove the wheels and its basically a sniper rifle.

But as with all crossbows, it comes with a lot of strings attached, including a hard time pulling said string.

What are some ways to make good use out of that weapon?

It can be found in Races of Stone.

[Deophaun]

Hire a commoner to pull the string back for you is the first thing that comes to mind.

[TrollCapAmerica]

Theres an enchantment that allows faster loading and the storing of ammunition in a pocket dimensional space which is beautiful for abusing the Great Crossbow

[Incanur]

Give one the Aptitude (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132321) property and go to town.

[Deophaun]

Theres an enchantment that allows faster loading and the storing of ammunition in a pocket dimensional space which is beautiful for abusing the Great Crossbow
Quick loading (MIC). The problem is, it doesn't actually work with a great crossbow.

[Fyermind]

+1 Aptitude Splitting Great Crossbow
Feats:
Lightning Maces, Roundabout Kick, Hand Crossbow Focus, Improved Critical (Great Crossbow)
Stances: Blood in the water

Laugh at your 15-20 threat range, free action reloads, and hordes of extra shots if you threat or crit. you need a lot of feats to do this, for martial rogue + psychic warrior + fighter with a level in warblade for the stance and some useful maneuvers and a level in barbarian for whirling frenzy sounds best.

[TrollCapAmerica]

Quick loading (MIC). The problem is, it doesn't actually work with a great crossbow.

Isnt that just because of some bad wording where they only mentioned PHB weapons?

[Qc Storm]

Okay. Assuming I don't want to go THAT far. Infinite crits and all sounds good on paper, but making it up to that level isn't very fun.

Aptitude + Hand Crossbow is magnificent though. Shame it requires Hand Crossbow proficiency. Pretty much locks you into Rogue.

Anything else I should know? What should I use until I have money for Aptitude?

[Jeff the Green]

+1 Aptitude Splitting Great Crossbow
Feats:
Lightning Maces, Roundabout Kick, Hand Crossbow Focus, Improved Critical (Great Crossbow)
Stances: Blood in the water

Laugh at your 15-20 threat range, free action reloads, and hordes of extra shots if you threat or crit. you need a lot of feats to do this, for martial rogue + psychic warrior + fighter with a level in warblade for the stance and some useful maneuvers and a level in barbarian for whirling frenzy sounds best.

Well, at least until someone manifests death urge (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125698) on you.

[Deophaun]

Isnt that just because of some bad wording where they only mentioned PHB weapons?
And that's the problem, because that's the only wording. You'd have to houserule to make it work.

As for Aptitude: check with your DM that it works that way. The listed examples indicate that the interpretation of "feats that affect the use of a particular weapon" that allows it to apply to things like Rapid Reload or Lightning Maces is too broad.

[Curmudgeon]

Isnt that just because of some bad wording where they only mentioned PHB weapons?
This problem originated in the Player's Handbook with Rapid Reload. I have no idea what possessed them to itemize all the crossbows except the repeating crossbows, rather than just specify that Rapid Reload doesn't work with them. I'd have been happy if they just specified that Rapid Reload gave some different benefit for the repeaters (a standard action to reload, say).

This problem was compounded when they introduced the great crossbow, and didn't think to update Rapid Reload when they did so. Then WotC rubbed salt in the wound with quick loading in Magic Item Compendium, again restricting the use to those three crossbows which Rapid Reload works on.

This repeated oversight bugged me enough to make a house rule for it:
Treat great crossbows (Races of Stone, pages 153-155) the same as heavy crossbows for feats and other rules that specify heavy crossbows.

[TrollCapAmerica]

There should be a term for house rules that make more sense than/fix busted RAW rules and get used universally

[Lord Vukodlak]

This problem originated in the Player's Handbook with Rapid Reload. I have no idea what possessed them to itemize all the crossbows except the repeating crossbows, rather than just specify that Rapid Reload doesn't work with them. I'd have been happy if they just specified that Rapid Reload gave some different benefit for the repeaters (a standard action to reload, say).

This problem was compounded when they introduced the great crossbow, and didn't think to update Rapid Reload when they did so. Then WotC rubbed salt in the wound with quick loading in Magic Item Compendium, again restricting the use to those three crossbows which Rapid Reload works on.

This repeated oversight bugged me enough to make a house rule for it:
Treat great crossbows (Races of Stone, pages 153-155) the same as heavy crossbows for feats and other rules that specify heavy crossbows.

I house ruled rapid-reload into weapon groups
Hand, Light and Heavy is one group
Repeating Crossbows is another.
I'd likely make the great crossbow sit by it self however.

[Yuki Akuma]

Why not "Light Crossbows" (Hand and Light), "Heavy Crossbows" (Heavy and Great) and "Repeating Crossbows" (Repeating and... I'm fairly sure there's another repeating crossbow somewhere out there)?

I can picture why learning to quickly reload light crossbows will let you do the same with hand crossbows (both are loaded by hand) and why doing the same with heavy crossbows will help with great crossbows (both are loaded using a lever/winch).

[gorfnab]

Aptitude + Hand Crossbow is magnificent though. Shame it requires Hand Crossbow proficiency. Pretty much locks you into Rogue.

Targeteer Fighter ACF (Drag #310) nets you proficiency with two exotic ranged weapons of your choosing (ie. Hand Crossbow and Great Crossbow).

[Lord Vukodlak]

Why not "Light Crossbows" (Hand and Light), "Heavy Crossbows" (Heavy and Great) and "Repeating Crossbows" (Repeating and... I'm fairly sure there's another repeating crossbow somewhere out there)?
I tend to build feat changes around the core material first rather then try and cover every WoTC book in the wheel. The Great Crossbow has never come up in my games so I've never had to address its existence.


I can picture why learning to quickly reload light crossbows will let you do the same with hand crossbows (both are loaded by hand) and why doing the same with heavy crossbows will help with great crossbows (both are loaded using a lever/winch).
Actually Light Crossbows use a lever and Heavy Crossbows use a winch. Of the three only hand crossbows are loaded by hand... hence the name hand crossbow. I include them with lever/winch loading crossbows because the weapon is punished enough.