When is a Paladin, not a Paladin?

[Wordsmith]

Good Afternoon Playgrounders,

I need some help putting together a character for a 3.5, 32 point buy game, but as with all of my characters, it's not straightforward

The Fluff
Ser Guntak the Unthinking, level 8 Dwarf paladin, lawful good character taking part in the Red Hand Of Doom campaign. Sword of justice rather than a healer dude, and he won't be particularly "with it" because....

The Twist
He's not actually a paladin. He thinks he is, he tells people that he is, his temple allows him to believe that he is, but in fact, he's just mad. The voices from his "Gods" are actually just figments of his imagination, but no-one has the heart to challenge him. His paladin abilities do not come from the gods, but from another, unrelated source.

The Crunch
I am planning to play this character as straight as possible, as a warrior of the light. I intend to pick three gods (likely the god of dwarfs, pelor and one other), and each time he prays, roll a d4 to find out which one replies or if he just gets ignored.

What I need help with
1) which gods would be the best to take? I was thinking of taking a slightly more violent god for the "just hit it with a hammer" possibility on every decision.
2) which class/classes can I use to emulate a paladin? Someone suggested one of the classes from Tome of Battle, the name escapes me at the moment. What else could I use?
3) any essential items to take?

Thanks in advance!

[Gigas Breaker]

The class from Tome of Battle is Crusader. He has a divine flavor frome the Devoted Spirit discipline without actually having spells.

[Feytalist]

When it's ajar.

...wait, I think I messed that one up.


Binder could be an interesting not-Paladin-at-all. They have obvious supernatural abilities that come from somewhere, and they could be decent crazies as well with the vestige manifestations and stuff.

Alternately: Incarnate. Refluff incarnum as divine gifts, and you have a pretty good semi-Paladin. Wait, Incarnates can't be Lawful and Good. Have to play a Soulborn then. Heheh.

[cerin616]

Where paladins get they power from is a pretty big debate topic... So gods don't matter all that much, as a paladin doesn't need to devote himself to one.

With that in mind, his gods dont have to be real, he would be a paladin as long as the forces of good think he is deserving of paladin stuff. Until then he is just a fighter who takes "good" pretty seriously.

[Hyena]

Well, some settings allow you to create a deitiless cleric.

[cerin616]

Well, some settings allow you to create a deitiless cleric.

Actually, the players handbook has rules for creating a deitiless cleric.

[ArqArturo]

When it's ajar.

Who says an animated object can't become a paladin?.

[Amphetryon]

When it's ajar.

...wait, I think I messed that one up.


Binder could be an interesting not-Paladin-at-all. They have obvious supernatural abilities that come from somewhere, and they could be decent crazies as well with the vestige manifestations and stuff.


Seconding Binder. With the right Vestiges, you get Heavy Armor Proficiency and a Smite ability that can feed into the delusion that your Character is actually a Paladin. . . and you can sometimes manifest weird abilities that no other Paladin has, by binding different Vestiges (for a change of pace, or to indicate your "god" is displeased with a particular action).

[DMVerdandi]

Paladin powers don't come from gods.
They come from being JUSTICE incarnate.:smallannoyed:

Cleric powers come from gods...sometimes:smallamused:

Perhaps an ardent? Instead of being a paladin, how about those voices in his head have something to do with his unconscious mind telling him his own destiny, reminding him to serve justice and good, even though the order of paladin don't see him as fit.

So he dons the mantle of what would be required of him, not formally trained, but somehow performing miracles some would think of as divine. Really its just the power of faith...in himself.

Take Ancestral Knowledge to further set him on his path of adventure and wonder.

[Flickerdart]

Ardent into Slayer would be a pretty good gish with the right mantles, especially with a bit of Sangehirn thrown in for healing others. Psychic Warrior is also a good choice.

If you like the idea of having a mechanical Code, and don't mind not having magic, three or four levels in Knight will serve you well.

[Psyren]

When he turns into a driveway!

...wait.

Crusader fits very well with this concept, especially the "random god responds" mechanics, which will fit well with their randomized maneuvers granted mechanic.

[137beth]

Who says an animated object can't become a paladin?.

An Animated Object has LA "--", so it cannot take class levels:smallsmile:

[Flickerdart]

An Animated Object has LA "--", so it cannot take class levels:smallsmile:
Except any intelligent monster can be advanced by class levels, and oh look, Awaken Construct is a thing.

[ArqArturo]

Except any intelligent monster can be advanced by class levels, and oh look, Awaken Construct is a thing.

Therefore, an Animated Awakened jar of pickles can be a paladin.

[Baroncognito]

Therefore, an Animated Awakened jar of pickles can be a paladin.

No, because pickle jars tend to be chaotic.

[Segev]

No, because pickle jars tend to be chaotic.

PAO it into a human, have a Werebear infect it with Lycanthropy, and have it willingly change shape once. As a [shapechanger] subtype, it can revert to its natural form at will. As a cursed lycanthrope, it has the alignment of the creature that infected it (and werebears are LG).

Sure, its ECL is hideous, but it is workable.

[cerin616]

No, because pickle jars tend to be chaotic.

Forkadin vs the psionic sandwich

[Gwendol]

A crusader-knight will do the trick. Outfit the dwarf with a polearm, combat reflexes, and a few potions of enlarge person!

[ArqArturo]

No, because pickle jars tend to be chaotic.

Depends if they're sweet or sour. Sweet pickles are usually good, therefore, they can become paladins.

[prufock]

When it's ahorse.

[cerin616]

Depends if they're sweet or sour. Sweet pickles are usually good, therefore, they can become paladins.

But are they lawful? chaotic pickles cant be paladins.

[Telonius]

I'd think that kosher dill would work...?

[TuggyNE]

When it's ahorse.

OK that wins.

[Grayson01]

Favored Soul could work you could even change his weapon selection with each roll.

As have been Said Paladin could work since you don't need a deity.

Crusader is a good choice

Psionic Mind

CW Samari works but why would you do that to yourself.

Knight is a great choice

Oh and for the third God Choice of Smash With Hammer ask Questions later SAINT CUTHBERT!!!!

[Yogibear41]

I vote for crusader, but will mention mystics from dragonlance just because no one else has yet and I think they deserve a mention.

Also as it has been said before, Paladins don't get their powers from a specific god(assuming no setting specific change)

[joca4christ]

I add another vote for the Crusader. Definitely fits with fluff, and mechanically is a great choice for Paladin not a Paladin.

[fryplink]

Worlock, for a suggestion from the outfield. Nothing like blasts of "purifying fire" to prove your have God's endorsement, and Hideous Blow/Eldrich Glaive sounds a lot like a smite to me. Maybe god eventually gives you wings or something. Just find something to make it more durable or multiclass. You don't need full worlock to use a few invocations to up the ante. It isn't strictly a powerful build, but splicing the bits together into something coherent could be fun.

Maybe the first 6~8 levels of some Ubercharger before tossing in some worlock to keep from having a DMG thrown at you.

[Flickerdart]

When it's ahorse.
When can the Human Paladin not ride his mount? When it's a little hoarse.

[lsfreak]

Binder gets my vote, though really, depending on how you fluff it up, a lot of different classes could work. A barbarian feels the "presence of god" and goes into a rage, a rogue assumes when he catches someone off guard it's a sign of god's will, bard reciting scripture and causing everyone's weapons to ignite with holy flame (DFI), and so on.

[ArqArturo]

When can the Human Paladin not ride his mount? When it's a little hoarse.

I must say neigh.

[Prince Raven]

No, because pickle jars tend to be chaotic.

So an animated awakened pickle jar could be a Paladin of Freedom then?

[ArqArturo]

So an animated awakened pickle jar could be a Paladin of Freedom then?

Would taking levels in Paladin of Freedom and Holy Liberator be a redundancy?.

[Ninja_Grand]

Lot of off topic. The mods may find this lock worthy


Any class that's is not about sneak and stab can work. my 2cp says fighter, knight, or crusader from tome of battle.