Comprehend Languages and Tongues

[Randomocity132]

Is there anything that the spell Comprehend Languages does that Tongues does not, or does Tongues just completely make it obsolete?

My current understanding was that Tongues does everything except allow you to read it, but I'm not 100% sure.

[erikun]

Tongues does not allow you to read or write in a language, only understand it being spoken and to speak it. Comprehend Languages allows you to understand spoken and written language, but does not allow you to speak or write it.

Also, Comprehend Languages is Personal (yourself) while Tongues allows you to target any one creature. You'd also need to touch the writing or creature speaking with Comprehend Languages, which Tongues does not require.

[underlaud]

Both give you the ability to understand a language but then they both have an additional different effect.

Tongues gives you the ability to speak a language a creature is using.

Comprehend Languages lets you read it.

You could also do comprehend languages on a written article that is in a different language to read it.

Edit: erikun beat me to it :)

[Duke of Urrel]

I think I'll agree with Erikun. The Tongues spell doesn't bestow the ability to read every language; it only bestows the ability to speak any language and to understand it as it is spoken.

One might try to stretch the meaning of "understand" in the description of the Tongues spell to include the passive understanding of written as well as spoken language. However, there are two reasons not to try this.

1. One is the good advice that we shouldn't read anything into a spell's description that isn't explicitly there.

2. The other is the argument that reading written language and understanding spoken language are separate skills. Reading requires more than mere familiarity with how a language sounds; it must also include knowledge of the visual signs that represent these sounds. The power to understand any string of spoken syllables does not necessarily entail the knowledge of how to represent them in written letters, particularly if these letters belong to an unfamiliar alphabet. Therefore, I don't think we can say that "understanding" by hearing necessarily entails "understanding" by reading.

It may seem a little lopsided that the Tongues spell empowers you to speak and to understand so many languages, but leaves you functionally illiterate in most of them – but that's magic for you! And there's always the Comprehend Languages spell to fall back on if you need to become literate.

There may be other reasons, and good ones, why the Tongues spell should grant you all the powers of the Comprehend Languages spell. I think these would have to do with such considerations as whether you believe it's too much of an inconvenience for bards and sorcerers to retain the Comprehend Languages spell once they've acquired the Tongues spell.

But I'm with Erikun, as I said. Personally, I'm a language nut. I respect the difficulty involved in mastering a foreign language and don't want language barriers to be too easy to overcome. I also wouldn't like to under-value mundane linguistic skills, such as the Speak Language skill and the Decipher Script skill.

[Crake]

Actually, the way I read tongues, it doesn't actually allow you to speak any language, but rather, be understood/understand others who may not share a language.

This means that you cant walk into a group of fey and start speaking sylvan, you'd be speaking common, but they fey would understand you. They would however notice you aren't actually speaking sylvan.

Essentially you can run around speaking your secret hidden made up language, and to everyone you're speaking a strangely understandable gibberish.

[Lord Vukodlak]

It may seem a little lopsided that the Tongues spell empowers you to speak and to understand so many languages, but leaves you functionally illiterate in most of them
Not really Tongues just acts as universal translator, it could even be considered telepathic based and plenty of illiterate people can speak multiple languages especially before literally became common.

I once used the "speak friend and enter." door on the party where they had the a hell of a time trying to get it open. They knew what is said because of "comprehend languages" But they had no way to actually speak "friend" in that language. The implication in tongues is the intelligent creature has to be present to speak its language.

*The door was also a dimensional portal, so breaking it open wouldn't do much good.

Finally the wizard happened on the idea to use Contact Other Plane which can give "one-word answers." And so the party passed through the portal while the bad guys holding the old sage hostage(who knew the language in question). Sat around wondering when the hell the PC's would show up.