Ice for Snowcasting

[Andurian]

I am going for the Snowcasting and Draconic Aura trick (and Icemail). I cannot use the Eschew Materials trick to not need the snow and am not trying to do that anyway.

So my current plan is to full a pouch of the hewards haversack with ice. A lot of freakin ice, 20" pounds worth if it fits. Or Snow. Chipped ice I guess. Whatever. When I want the DC boost, I reach in for the movement and then cast the spell. Now I don't know if the ice/snow would melt or not. It doesn't really specify in the Bag of Holding what the environment in the bag is.

Would the ice melt or not?

This also brings up another question. How am I going to get some ice and snow? I suppose I could get some at a tavern but I don't know if I can managed to score 20 lbs. I can see that conversation going strangely. "Hello sir! Give me some beer and 20 pounds of ice, crushed please!"

So what suggestions do you have to scavenge the ice? I am a beguiler so I can't easily freeze things.

[Hamste]

Actually I doubt a tavern would have ice if it wasn't winter...I mean where would they get it? They sure as heck are not importing it.


So how many spells can you cast or have available to be cast and at what level?

Snilloc's Snowball Swarm is a second level spell that makes snows (it is from 3.0 but it was not updated and safe to use).

Winter's embrace makes snow as well and it is from 3.5 but it is a 3rd level spell.

Chill metal can also be used to keep your snow cold.

Another weird option is to hire a Cryokineticist to follow you around and make ice for your spell casting.

[lsfreak]

Actually I doubt a tavern would have ice if it wasn't winter...I mean where would they get it? They sure as heck are not importing it.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakhchal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qanat
and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windcatcher

[Nerd-o-rama]

You're not going to find ice kept on hand for sale in non-frozen pre-industrial areas unless they've invented magical refrigeration. Whether an extradimensional space lets in heat (diabatic) or does not (adiabatic) isn't covered in the rules and is up to the GM, although it's entirely possible some wizard with a fixation on vacuum (or some other word for the absence of matter) might have invented a magical thermos as an afterthought. That would at least keep it insulated for a while.

EDIT: Okay fine a culture with sufficient knowledge of engineering and taste for cold beverages could manage it. Europe was just kind of behind the curve between 500 and 1500 CE.

[Hamste]

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakhchal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qanat
and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windcatcher

Sawdust works as well but it still involves the tavern actually caring enough about providing a cold drink to go through that trouble. It is so much easier to simply put it in a cool cellar and use that.

[erikun]

Blue Ice (a metal found in Frostburn as well) can keep the inside of any container below freezing. That will keep your ice preserved.

As for the ice itself, you can't use spells to create the ice from nothing. But you can use spells to turn existing water into ice. Otiluke's Freezing Sphere will freeze any body of water and give you more than enough to use. Any sort of teleportation to the northern regions or the the Paraelemental Plane of Ice will get you some as well.

[Ashtagon]

If the snow is in your haversack, it's not a surrounding environment.

[TuggyNE]

Blue Ice (a metal found in Frostburn as well)

"Why are you crying, Dr. Physics Professor?" :smalltongue:

[Norin]

Hire a Druid to cast Call Avalanche, Blizzard, Column of Ice, Control Temperature, Fimbulwinter or Frostfell for you. (Probably more/other options too...)

Some of those are quite high level, but others are not and most of them produce enough snow or ice to not leave you wanting.

[DementedFellow]

Carry 2 pounds of shapesand with you. You can succeed on the check and get the bonus. You will also qualify for the Drift Magic thing which is a handy thing to have sometimes.

[Feytalist]

This snow or ice can be magically created by a conjuration spell...

Major creation. Boom.


Edit: okay, I thought about this a bit. Can ice be classified as a mineral (or as vegetable matter, for that matter)? What about permafrost? That can be used as ice, surely. Oh hell, in a universe where fire is still considered an element, we can let ice be a mineral.

[Psyren]

Hire a psion to line your Haversack with Quintessence. Or you could ask the DM whether dropping a +1 freezing dagger inside would make a difference.

[ahenobarbi]

Item of 24/7 prestidigitation to cool it self each round. Scrap frost from it when you cast.

[Zombimode]

Oh hell, in a universe where fire is still considered an element, we can let ice be a mineral.

Are you referring to the "Fire is a chemical reaction, not an element!!1eleven" line of complaint? If so, please note that this complaint is based on a semantic fallacy: it equates the modern usage of the word "element" with the classical usage. This is misinformed. Fire, Water, Air and Earth are not "elements" in the same sense that Einsteinium, Darmstadtium and Unobtainium are elements. Thus, saying that Fire is not an element is of course correct, but not really surprising and the same is true for Earth, Water and Air.
You could give a possible elemental(2) composition for the elements(1) Earth, Water and Air, but this is just coincidental.

In short: there are two different terms confusingly using the same word "elemental".
The semantic dilution of the two terms was cool for a throw-away joke in the last panel of the comic, but don't read too much into it.

[Hamste]

Blue Ice (a metal found in Frostburn as well) can keep the inside of any container below freezing. That will keep your ice preserved.

As for the ice itself, you can't use spells to create the ice from nothing. But you can use spells to turn existing water into ice. Otiluke's Freezing Sphere will freeze any body of water and give you more than enough to use. Any sort of teleportation to the northern regions or the the Paraelemental Plane of Ice will get you some as well.

If the container is below freezing why don't they just put water into it and wait for it to freeze? That would be easier than using a spell for it.

[erikun]

If the container is below freezing why don't they just put water into it and wait for it to freeze? That would be easier than using a spell for it.
Actually, this is a very good point. The biggest problem I see is chipping it apart once it's frozen (you likely can't just rip a chunk of ice out of a large block) and not having any ice while it's still water and waiting to freeze. Should be perfectly functional otherwise, though.

[Inferno]

Make an ice-cube tray out of blue ice.

[Piggy Knowles]

Actually, this is a very good point. The biggest problem I see is chipping it apart once it's frozen (you likely can't just rip a chunk of ice out of a large block) and not having any ice while it's still water and waiting to freeze. Should be perfectly functional otherwise, though.

Easy enough to fix. Just need to create some sort of churning mechanism. I suggest a very small skeleton with instructions to walk in rapid circles.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

There's Summon Component, a Sorcerer/Wizard 1 from Complete Mage, and the casting time is a Swift Action. A wand would also be a swift action to activate, and while 15 gp per spell isn't great, it can be useful to have in case of emergency.

An Eternal Wand (MIC) is 820 gp for a 1st level spell, it's usable 2/day but the activation is always a standard action.

[Saintheart]

Get a druid buddy to go into the frozen, snowblasted north and plant an oak sapling. Have him cast Endure Elements on the sapling (assuming a plant counts as a "creature") and then cast Plant Growth to bring it to maturity. While you're celebrating the rebirth of Kuldahar, get your druid buddy to cast Acorn of Far Travel, Extended, on one of its acorns. Have the druid give the acorn to you.

Congratulations, you are now always able to gather snow, since you are always "considered to be standing under that oak tree's canopy" and therefore able to gather snow from the "surrounding environment".

[Norin]

Get a druid buddy to go into the frozen, snowblasted north and plant an oak sapling. Have him cast Endure Elements on the sapling (assuming a plant counts as a "creature") and then cast Plant Growth to bring it to maturity. While you're celebrating the rebirth of Kuldahar, get your druid buddy to cast Acorn of Far Travel, Extended, on one of its acorns. Have the druid give the acorn to you.

Congratulations, you are now always able to gather snow, since you are always "considered to be standing under that oak tree's canopy" and therefore able to gather snow from the "surrounding environment".

Rarther far fetched and probably not working.

Just because you are considered to be in a forested area in terms of your spells and abilities, does not mean that you can just reach out into thin air and grab some snow from under the tree a thousand miles away.

That's some crazy teleportation/portal stuff right there. :smallbiggrin:

Funny idea, but too far fetched, imo.

edit - Acorn of FAR FETCHING!!?!?! Ohhohohooolololol? No?