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View Full Version : Opinions Requested: Cleric, Knight, Prestige Paladin, Swift Wing



Auramis
2013-08-08, 05:46 AM
Hey everyone, first post here!

Anyway, bit of background: my brother is DMing a campaign with actual intend to continue, for the first time since we started playing D&D. We'd done short lived month long games before, but this is the first time we've been going on for a while, and he's opted to let us experiment to see what would work for our household in future games. We're basically homebrewing and experimenting a lot. I've never gotten to actually play a long term character either, so this is an experiment on my part as well.

A few nights ago, since we're just messing around, he opted that normal paladins were prohibited and switched it to prestige paladin only. I've got no problems with that at all. I just multiclassed knight with cleric (to Bahamut) to enter into paladin to get a few tanking benefits (Divine Grace, Divine Health, etc.)

I get the spellcasting wouldn't be as hot as it could be for the level we're at, but I like the idea of a holy knight on (pardon the pun) swift wings seeking out those who would harm others, particularly evil dragons and undead. My question is, would multiclassing into Swift Wing, on top of being a knight, cleric, and prestige paladin, at all muddle things down?

Here's the character, for those wanting more in depth info:

Levels: 12 total - 4 cleric/4 knight/3 prestige paladin/1 swift wing
Race: Human
HP:120
Stats: STR 18, DEX 14, CON 16, INT 13, WIS 17, CHA 18
Base Saves: 10 Fort, 5 Ref, 9 Will
BAB: 10/5
Diety/Domains: Bahamut: Protection, Good, Dragon (from Swift Wing)

Skills: Concentration 7, Diplomacy 10, Knowledge: Arcane 5, Nobility/Royalty 10, Religion 10,, Listen 5, Ride 2, Sense Motive 5, Spellcraft 5, Spot 5

Feats: Dragontouched, Draconic Heritage (Silver), Draconic Skin, Mounted Combat, Holy Bond (Divine Bond variant for Holy Mount), Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword), Draconic Claws (great for when I need to heal myself or someone else who's in the fray), Draconic Senses

Abilities: Turn/Rebuke, Knight's Challenge (Fighting Challenge +1), Shield Block +1, Bulwark of Defense, Detect Evil, Aura of Courage, Aura of Good, Divine Grace, Divine Health, Divine Bond (as the Pathfinder ability, substituting the special mount under house rules), Lay on Hands, Smite 1/day, Dragon Affinity (Silver)

Place in the party: I wanted a healthy balance of spellcasting and tankiness with this character. Knight and paladin helped a lot with tanking stats and abilities, and Swift Wing will naturally beef him up with resistances and damage reduction while also increasing his spellcasting abilities. As it is, he serves more as the tank and as a backup healer, while a druid in the party serves as our primary healer.

Bastard sword?:The bastard sword offers versatility when used with a buckler as a shield. If I'm not bashing with a normal shield, there's no real reason to pick one over a buckler. The buckler also allows the use of a free hand for casting spells if needed and works well with switching between one-handed and two-handed bastard sword.

Why no horse?:With the Divine Bond house ruled in over the usual Special Mount, I picked the weapon spirit over the mount, given I'd be flying later with Swift Wing. I never did understand the craze with the horse either. I know there's a hardcore following for the paladin's horse, but I never was able to get on board with it.

Bahamut?: When my paladin was a kid, his village was attacked by a Red Dragon. Before he could get caught up in the mess and killed, a Silver Dragon arrived and scared the Red Dragon off. Feeling inspired by the Silver Dragon's power and its compassion for the people of the town, he started researching dragons and their gods. He resolved that no one should suffer from evil as he had, especially from evil dragons, so he dedicated himself to be a social oddity and becoming a cleric/knight to Bahamut to oppose evil dragons, as well as evil in general.

Update: Works great! Spellcasting isn't up to par with our full caster in the party, as expected, but my character provided a lovely meatshield for his allies, and he was able to buff and heal well enough. Only complaint is how weak turning is, but that will change in 1 level, once I get Breath of Life from Swift Wing. Turning checks will be replaced with the enemy making reflex saves to avoid full damage instead. I think it's much better.

Auramis
2013-08-08, 01:48 PM
Edited the old 2 cleric/4 knight/5 prestige paladin/1 swift wing into being more cleric and less paladin (4/4/5/1 now). Also rebalanced a few skills, changed out a feat, and did a bit of rewriting. Feeling better about this build for this holy dragon knight amalgamation. Still would like input, though. :)

Gwendol
2013-08-08, 02:11 PM
Why the bastard sword?

Fax Celestis
2013-08-08, 02:28 PM
You have some terrible MAD going on (WIS/cha for Cleric, CON/str/cha for Knight, CHA/str/con for Paladin). Might want to see about using a CHA-based divine caster instead of cleric. Try favored soul and take Charismatic Priest, which switches you from Wis/Cha to CHA.

Gwendol
2013-08-08, 02:35 PM
Isn't eschew materials a little much on a divine caster? Most require a divine focus, but typically not material components. It would be worthwhile on an arcane caster since most of their spells uses materials.

Auramis
2013-08-08, 04:18 PM
Why the bastard sword?

Mostly for flavor. No real good reason other than me liking it, really.


You have some terrible MAD going on (WIS/cha for Cleric, CON/str/cha for Knight, CHA/str/con for Paladin). Might want to see about using a CHA-based divine caster instead of cleric. Try favored soul and take Charismatic Priest, which switches you from Wis/Cha to CHA.

I thought about Favored Soul, but Swift Wing requires one to have turning, and only clerics get it when paladin is prestige, to my knowledge. Is there a class I'm missing that has turning aside from cleric and paladin?

Also, now that you mention it, I wonder why I don't just level cleric or knight more over paladin and forgo paladin all together. Probably because I'm so used to paladin and am fond of them. I do like the idea of the Divine Bond stacking with cleric levels to get that nifty benefit, but, given how all over the place my abilities are, I don't know. I had planned on focusing solely on improving wisdom from here on out. I might see about moving points from intelligence over, if it's allowed.


Isn't eschew materials a little much on a divine caster? Most require a divine focus, but typically not material components. It would be worthwhile on an arcane caster since most of their spells uses materials.

Thoughtless mistake on my part. Will switch it out for something better.

Fax Celestis
2013-08-08, 04:24 PM
I thought about Favored Soul, but Swift Wing requires one to have turning, and only clerics get it when paladin is prestige, to my knowledge. Is there a class I'm missing that has turning aside from cleric and paladin?

You could drop a level on Sacred Exorcist or Soldier of Light (http://www.forgotten-worlds.net/files/PRC_Manual_fw/Pages/reference/class118.html) (a 3.0 PrC that upcycles to 3.5 rather smoothly, from Deities and Demigods).

So Favored Soul 5/Knight 4/Soldier of Light 1/Prestige Paladin 3/Swiftwing 1 could work.

Auramis
2013-08-08, 04:33 PM
You could drop a level on Sacred Exorcist or Soldier of Light (http://www.forgotten-worlds.net/files/PRC_Manual_fw/Pages/reference/class118.html) (a 3.0 PrC that upcycles to 3.5 rather smoothly, from Deities and Demigods).

So Favored Soul 5/Knight 4/Soldier of Light 1/Prestige Paladin 3/Swiftwing 1 could work.

Soldier requires NG, so that won't work with paladin, since it requires Lawful Good. Same with Knight requiring Lawful alignment. Exorcist would work, but that'd be 20 skill points I'd need to devote to Knowledge (The Planes)... Unless I get Draconic Knowledge as a Draconic Feat to make all knowledges class skills. It could easily take the place of Eschew Materials. I'd also get the benefit of Blindsense 20' once I get Draconic Senses at level 2 of Swift Wing.

Auramis
2013-08-08, 04:36 PM
Also, just checked. Favored Souls cast spells based off of charisma by default. The wisdom for them is only in the saving throws people have to make, but I intended to be a backup healer/buffer, so it wouldn't really hurt, since I would be affecting willing targets.

Fax Celestis
2013-08-08, 04:44 PM
Also, just checked. Favored Souls cast spells based off of charisma by default. The wisdom for them is only in the saving throws people have to make, but I intended to be a backup healer/buffer, so it wouldn't really hurt, since I would be affecting willing targets.

Even better, then.

Auramis
2013-08-08, 04:52 PM
Things got harder again. Can only be a sacred exorcist if I've got dispel evil or dismissal, both of which are 4th level spells. I'd have to be an 8th level Favored Soul for that. Paladin requires the turn undead feature too, so it wouldn't work out.

Looks as if what I had, convoluted as it is, might be one of the easier ways to go about it if I want paladin in the mix, I think (sans a few changes to feats). It could be worse, given all three of the classes use charisma, and two of them use strength and constitution. I'll look into that feat to get bonus spells based on charisma instead of wisdom to help further it along. Puts less stress on the need for wisdom.

I'll keep looking for classes with turning, either way. I appreciate all this feedback, by the way. :)

Auramis
2013-08-08, 11:30 PM
Just played it tonight! Worked out great! I will admit that character could be a lot more powerful from raw spell power potential if I had just stuck to cleric and swift wing instead of multiclassing, but I like the flavor of the mix I have going on right now. Main objective is to have fun, after all. Thanks for the critiquing you guys gave earlier. I appreciate it. :)