Teleport?

[Irk]

So here's my question.

What happens if you see a place once, then cast maximized teleport?
the d% would yield a result of 100, right?
Then a mishap deals you 10 damage, right?
Then you mishap again cuz you maximize 1d20+80, right?
then you take10 damage, mishap again...

All in an instant, I think?
Dealing you infinite damage?
If someone casts shield other on you or you cast glory of the martyr on them, do they take infinite damage too?
I know there are other infinite damage loops that are far more practical and actually useful.
The curious thing about this one, is that it's an instantaneous effect, but the continuous mishaps suggest that time is occurring, even though it is not.

Did I mess up somewhere?

[Debatra]

I don't think Maximize Spell affects rolls that determine what specific effect happens, like Teleport or Prismatic Spray.

[Irk]

maximize spell just says it maximizes all variable numeric effects of a spell.. hence the maximized d%.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Even if it works like that, why would you ever cast a maximized Teleport?

[Debatra]

Maybe it works by RAW (and I'm still saying it doesn't), but then there's RAI.

And unless you're using it as an elaborate form of suicide, good luck convincing any DM it works.

[Lord Vukodlak]

And unless you're using it as an elaborate form of suicide, good luck convincing any DM it works.

Considering only bad thing can happen when you cast a maximized teleport, I think most DM's would be fine. Its the maximized prismatic spray that would be an issue.

[Xervous]

I pray this doesn't work. I remember reading about someone summoning cthulu on a max d100 roll...

[Irk]

Yeah, I mean it's obviously entirely useless, but I was just wondering whether or not it was possible, and I guess it is, at least by RAW, partially just to be sure it would work for other d% spells.

There are lot of spells that aren't maximized, but should be. For example, summon monster XI maximized can summon 3 vrocks from the VIII list to perform a dance of ruin.

There really is no reason to cast a maximized teleport though.

[Drachasor]

I do not believe this works. The percentage roll is not a numeric variable. The variable there is "how good was the teleport" which has discrete non-numeric list of outcomes. The roll picks one of these non-numeric outcomes.

[SethoMarkus]

Now, this is probably within the realm of RAI, but Maximize Spell does state "all variable, numeric effects of a spell modified by this feat are maximized." I would argue that the random chance tables in spells such as Teleport and Prismatic Spray are not variable effects of the spell, but variable functions; additionally, their representation by numbers is merely for convenience. It is possible to roll a 6-sided die that is not numbered and instead has a different color on each face for determining the random effect of Prismatic Spray, and a similar substitute can be used for the %ile chance of Teleport. Of course, this is all conjecture and opinion, but consider the following. If Maximize Spell worked in this way, then that means that you would roll a 400 out of 100 with a Super Spell metamagic-enchanced Teleport.

[Irk]

I think that the most convincing argument is that proposed by SethoMarkus. It is in fact a function, instead of a numeric value, thus excluding it from the power of maximize.

[Drachasor]

Now, this is probably within the realm of RAI, but Maximize Spell does state "all variable, numeric effects of a spell modified by this feat are maximized." I would argue that the random chance tables in spells such as Teleport and Prismatic Spray are not variable effects of the spell, but variable functions; additionally, their representation by numbers is merely for convenience. It is possible to roll a 6-sided die that is not numbered and instead has a different color on each face for determining the random effect of Prismatic Spray, and a similar substitute can be used for the %ile chance of Teleport. Of course, this is all conjecture and opinion, but consider the following. If Maximize Spell worked in this way, then that means that you would roll a 400 out of 100 with a Super Spell metamagic-enchanced Teleport.

That seems like you are hinging your argument on a semantic distinction. A function is just something that takes and input and gives an output. If a variable input produces a variable output, then I don't see how this isn't a variable effect. I think pointing to the "numerical" part makes more sense, since the effects are not numerical in nature. This also doesn't require using terms like "function" which is not a term used by the spell or the game.

[Hunter Noventa]

Well it's established that his doesn't work but...

Empowered Maximized Teleport? 150%?

Do you arrive at your destination before you departed?

[Cruiser1]

Empowered Maximized Teleport? 150%?
Do you arrive at your destination before you departed?
Maximized Teleport hangs the campaign Universe while you're dealt damage in a truly infinite loop. :smalleek: Assuming there's a way to get out of the loop, highly TO builds like the Omniscifier might be able to make use of it, because this form of infinite damage doesn't depend on any other monsters, and therefore you can do it inside of a Time Stop.

Maximized Empowered Teleport chooses a 101-150 result from a table of 1-100. That crashes the campaign Universe because it accesses bad memory. :smalleek: These methods are truly in-game ways to effectively destroy the Universe and everything in it, and therefore can even take down Overdeities and Pun-Pun. :smallwink:

[Mr Adventurer]

Incantatrix can apply metamagic effects to other people's spells. Does this weaponise that ability?

And if the Incantatrix has Anticipate Teleportation up, could they do it retroactively? ;)

[Chronos]

Huh, this is the first time I've seen this argument with respect to Teleport. Usually it's Reincarnate: Cast an Empowered Reincarnate and come back as a Subscript Out of Range Error.

But yeah, it doesn't work because Teleport (or Reincarnate) doesn't have a numeric effect.

[TuggyNE]

Huh, this is the first time I've seen this argument with respect to Teleport. Usually it's Reincarnate: Cast an Empowered Reincarnate and come back as a Subscript Out of Range Error.

A wild MissingNo appears!

[Khedrac]

The D% roll for Teleport is not an effect, it determines what the effect is, thus it is not affected by the Maximise.

However if the result is Off-Target then the distance off is a variable numeric effect and is 100% of the distance to be travelled (1d10 * 1d10 %), the direction remains random.

Add in Empower and you can travel even further.

The same applies to Plane Shift's 5 to 500 miles from destination.

It rather makes one want a "Minimise Spell" feat...

[Killer Angel]

Do you arrive at your destination before you departed?

More probably, your destination would be the afterlife...

[SethoMarkus]

That seems like you are hinging your argument on a semantic distinction. A function is just something that takes and input and gives an output. If a variable input produces a variable output, then I don't see how this isn't a variable effect. I think pointing to the "numerical" part makes more sense, since the effects are not numerical in nature. This also doesn't require using terms like "function" which is not a term used by the spell or the game.

Hey, I was just stating my opinion on the matter since, by strict RAW, it would be an infinite death trap. Now, I really don't see the point of pointing any of this out, since we were essentially arguing the same point and merely communicated it slightly differently. The variable roll in the spell is not inherently numeric in effect, and is more how the spell works than what the spell accomplishes. I apologize for bringing unnecessary terminology into the argument; I will attempt to stick to only words in the glossaries and appendices of the source books from now on.

[Psyren]

I would allow it. What's the big deal?

Teleport = 5th-level spell
Greater Teleport (no chance of error) = 7th-level spell
Maximized Teleport (no chance of error) = 8th-level spell

The only real problem in this scenario would be a metamagic reducer of some kind, and even then only if the adjustment was more than 1. Those are problematic enough on their own to restrict or do away with.

[Talya]

I would allow it. What's the big deal?

Teleport = 5th-level spell
Greater Teleport (no chance of error) = 7th-level spell
Maximized Teleport (no chance of error) = 8th-level spell

The only real problem in this scenario would be a metamagic reducer of some kind, and even then only if the adjustment was more than 1. Those are problematic enough on their own to restrict or do away with.

actually, they've pointed out from the start that a maximized teleport (if it were possible) has ONLY a chance of error. It cannot work properly. A 100 result is always bad.

[Psyren]

Oh right, 100 screws you. Well, so much for that.

[Lapak]

Arguing that Maximize affects the d% roll is like arguing that Maximize should affect a roll to overcome spell resistance, or give the best possible value on a Concentration check made when someone takes an Attack of Opportunity against the caster. It's not a 'variable numeric effect' of the spell; it's a separate roll to determine whether or not the spell works and, if so, how.