Monster Classes Viable For PC Play

[i3oomz]

I am new to the scene of DnD. Up until now my only experience has been DMing for a group of 'never played previously friends'. So bear with me :)

Anyway! I am finally going to be able to play, which means making a character.

I want it to be a unique race taken from one of the Monster Manuals.

- I am not looking for something over-powered. I know the headache that causes for a DM.

- On the other hand under-powered is just as bad.

Basically all I care about is the aesthetics without bending the rules.

(I think a Formian would be sweet, but there is no Formians as characters section :smallmad:)

*Forgot to mention we are playing 3.5.

[Shred-Bot]

I don't have access to any books at the moment, but this (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monstersAsRaces.htm) should be able to give you a decent jumping off point. Many/most monsters outside the typical PC races have some kind of level adjustment and racial hit dice, so they'd work best if you're starting somewhere above level 1.

Alternately, you could use the same stats as a PC race and come up with some new fluff for it, some kind of Formian/human hybrid could even work.

(As long as DM is cool with it, obviously.)

[i3oomz]

Yeah, but is there any monster race that plays well RAW and is actually balanced? I feel like they are either a huge hassle because of level adjustment, and/or a campaign killer in one way or another. If nothing is viable I will probably just use some variation of a PC class, like a wood elf.

[SolioFebalas]

Before selecting a monster, which class you are planning to play?

[tyckspoon]

Yeah, but is there any monster race that plays well RAW and is actually balanced? I feel like they are either a huge hassle because of level adjustment, and/or a campaign killer in one way or another. If nothing is viable I will probably just use some variation of a PC class, like a wood elf.

If you're considering a beatstick-type class, there are a number of monsters/monstrous races that are reasonable substitutes for PHB fighting classes - it's not too difficult to find a creature that offers a decent Strength/Con/Natural Armor/natural weapons package without excessive LA, and those compare pretty well to the (lack of) things you get from Fighter/Barbarian/Paladin/Ranger levels. If you're looking at spells or skills, there's a very, very short list of potential candidates - giving up any significant amount of ECL puts you way too far behind in those, because your advancement in those fields is directly attached to your number of class levels.

[Waker]

Incidentally, if you plan on playing as a Monstrous Character, you may want to peruse Urpriest's guide on the subject.

[i3oomz]

Before selecting a monster, which class you are planning to play?

Class doesn't really matter much to me. I'd rather use something less magic based. The amount of spells a Ranger has would be fine, but a Sorceror or Wizard would be too much unless the race was really cool. Only core though.


I am looking for something around ECL 4. If there is anything non-humanoid that would be perfect.

Thanks for the help as well you guys, DnD can be a big project to tackle without any help from experienced players.

@tyckspoon: I am not looking to use a lot of spells. Although combat related abilities, or spell like abilities would be welcome. Any suggestions for a race that would not upset a campaign of normal player classes much?

*Not planning on playing a monstrous character. Small, medium, or large.:smallwink:

[Andezzar]

Class doesn't really matter much to me. I'd rather use something less magic based. The amount of spells a Ranger has would be fine, but a Sorceror or Wizard would be too much unless the race was really cool. Only core though. While class may not matter much to you, you should first figure out what your character's role in the group should be. Not every class/race combination can do everything decently (unless you take the Tier 1 casters from the PHB).

It might be a bit besides your idea, but what about an Aasimar Sorcadin? Using only core you would not get into abjurant champion, but still you could make a decent gish.

[Rastapopolos]

LA+4? Pixie? i love them so much. if you want something a little less sneaky and a little more beaty... Thri-keen? you get to dual weild greatswords :smallbiggrin:

[Fouredged Sword]

I would consider a Lizardfolk as an option on a fighter chasis, as that natural armor adds a considerable amount of AC to a full plate build.

[Runestar]

If you have savage species, one of the celestial races (like astral deva or ghaele) can be fun, useful and flavourful.

If not, then you probably want to stick with a stock monster of ECL4 or lower. None come to mind at the moment though. One way is to start off as a normal class, and slowly add lvs of a template as you deem appropriate (so you don't start off at lv4 with just 1 HD).

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030912a

Here is the savage progression for the half-dragon template.

[Urpriest]

*Not planning on playing a monstrous character. Small, medium, or large.:smallwink:

That's not what monstrous means, but alright.

With ECL 4, you'd be limited to Small, Medium, or Large anyway, since it's really tough to get Huge (though Tiny is relatively accessible).

If you just want to be able to beat folks up well, Anthropomorphic Baleen Whale (Savage Species) is a powerhouse, for 3 RHD and no LA.

Marrulurk is cool for a Rogue character, particularly if you stay far away from Curmudgeon and his punitive "sneak attack doesn't stack unless it says so, otherwise it overlaps" interpretation.

Steel Dragon is well-regarded, though I think this is before it's real sweet spot. You'd want the Loredrake archetype from Dragons of Eberron.

If your campaign won't go on that long, consider one of the Savage Species Monster Classes that casts as a Cleric. Many of them get full Cleric casting and almost full hit dice at ECL 4, though they peter out later.

Succubus is another well-regarded monster class. You'll have some useful spell-like abilities and work as a rogue substitute with a bit of creativity, though you won't be that great at combat.

Note that the above two choices are technically 3.0 content, and would need to be converted.

Broadly, there are lots of choices. It very much depends on what sort of character archetype you're interested in, or what sort of monster you want to play.

[i3oomz]

Alright, I took some time to read Urpriest's Monstrous Monster Handbook - A highly recommended read which is linked in his signature. It has increased my knowledge of monsters tenfold, and in turn changed what I am looking for.


I also talked to my DM about various options, and he is really pushing towards the Half-Dragon template. So I suggested using this instead -http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9557.msg323662#msg323662

In theory it will solve some balancing issues of the Half-Dragon. I can't help but notice that the original template has an LA of +3, but the homebrew only includes two levels. I assume this is because some of the Half Dragons traits have been nerfed.

I am planning on playing an Elven Half-Dragon Fighter. Does the homebrew Half-Dragon template need to be nerfed more?


As always I appreciate you guys helping me out so much! I looked into every option suggested, and the only reason I didn't use a few of them was because of my DM.

[Urpriest]

The reason the homebrew template has two levels is because those homebrew classes are designed to take as many levels as the monster's CR. This is in order to fix a common criticism of the LA system, namely that often monsters have ECL much higher than their CR.

The Half-Dragon class you linked should be decently balanced, and if your DM approves it it should be a fine thing to include in your character. Are you set on Fighter? Generally Fighter is best if you've got a specific, specialized build in mind. Otherwise another martial class might be more useful.

[i3oomz]

Are you set on Fighter? Generally Fighter is best if you've got a specific, specialized build in mind. Otherwise another martial class might be more useful.

After doing some research you are right again. It seems like a core fighter can't really specialize because of the lack of feats in the PHB.

Changing my aim a bit I think it would be really cool to do a fast, lots of attacks, tumble type character. I want to do melee opposed to ranged. Is it possible to do a melee Rogue? Or am I looking at either the TWF Ranger, or the Monk?

Between a Monk and a Ranger my instinct would be to choose Monk. Then again the Half-Dragon already provides natural weapons. Is the fact that the Monk and Half-Dragon overlap good or bad?

[Waker]

You mentioned core-only Fighter, is this game restricted to core only content? As for your question about Monk, it is a somewhat deceptive class. While it looks like it is powerful, what with all the bells and whistles, Monk is generally regarded as being a somewhat underwhelming class used mostly for dipping.

[i3oomz]

You mentioned core-only Fighter, is this game restricted to core only content? As for your question about Monk, it is a somewhat deceptive class. While it looks like it is powerful, what with all the bells and whistles, Monk is generally regarded as being a somewhat underwhelming class used mostly for dipping.

Definitely mainly core, looking back I did forget to mention that. I have heard that the Monk is one of the worst classes to play strictly core.

On the other hand, we aren't necessarily strictly core, but we do have to get permission to use anything from other books. For example we allowed Vow of Poverty from The Book of Exalted Deeds in the past for the pure reason of giving the Monk a buff.Personally role-play is far more important than optimization anyway. Speaking of which, I have been thinking up a back story.

My mother died upon giving birth which left me, an unwanted Half-Dragon in the hands of a rich High Elf to whom I became a servant. He was a proud Elf and trained me to be ashamed of my race which was in his opinion impure. I myself, now an adult free from my household, am a very humble and overly polite character who is always seeking to please people and avoid conflict even if it means letting people walk all over me. However when my life is in danger my Half-Dragon blood boils, and I can be provoked into using my dragon instincts to fight for survival.

After writing things out Barbarian is the obvious and perfect choice. I am immensely excited to play this character in game :)

Thank you guys for helping me get a strong basis for my character. The only thing left is to iron out the little stuff, name, appearance, etc. Which I already have some ideas for anyway. I know that Elf is by no means the strongest race I could choose, but like I've said Roleplay before anything else. I do feel like the Elf is the strongest choice RP wise. If anyone has any hints or suggestions feel free to voice them. Otherwise I think I am all cleared up!

[Andezzar]

Changing my aim a bit I think it would be really cool to do a fast, lots of attacks, tumble type character. I want to do melee opposed to ranged. Is it possible to do a melee Rogue? Or am I looking at either the TWF Ranger, or the Monk?If you want to do a roguish character, check out the appropriate handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156350).
As a poison dusk lizardfolk you could even be a monster.


Between a Monk and a Ranger my instinct would be to choose Monk. Then again the Half-Dragon already provides natural weapons. Is the fact that the Monk and Half-Dragon overlap good or bad?Monk is a very poor class, but a cool concept. If you want to do the monk as a concept, the general consensus is to take as few levels of the monk class as possible. Monk and half-dragon do not synergize well. Natural weapons are neither unarmed strikes nor monk weapons. As such they cannot be used for flurry of blows or stunning fist. If you go with the homebrew half-dragon you do not even get the +8 STR.

A good alternative would be the (unarmed) swordsage from ToB.

[Urpriest]

Barbarian is quite viable. If you want to be a mobile, tumbling type, there is an Alternate Class Feature for Barbarians with more urban backgrounds on this website (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a) called Skilled City-Dweller that lets you trade Ride for Tumble. There are also lots of other nice things for barbarians in various sourcebooks, with the nicest probably being Spirit Lion Totem from Complete Champion, which gives you the Pounce ability, letting you make a full attack on a charge (nice with all of those natural weapons you get from Half-Dragon). By the way, since the Half-Dragon class you're using gives Con to natural AC, remember to have a high Con!