Sorcerer build advise

[Christine Daae]

Hello as the name implies I need help with my Sorcerer. I have gotten the build worked out for the most part, Sorcerer6/Pact bound Adept 5.

Once I had finished this though I was not sure where to take it, As Abjurant champion seemed like a solid class in my eyes and at level 11 I would have enough BAB to not need to dip into non-caster levels.

My biggest problem seems to be feat selection though as I do not know what to pick. I am a Half styx Dragon Human (do you get the bonus feat and skill points still from the human base?), and the DM allowed me to take a -2 to Strength for an additional +2 to charisma. If anyone had any ideas they would be really appreciated. And my character is a noble in a game where magic user's have the strongest empire in the world. It is very heavy in RP and less on battles and fights. If anyone could please help me build my character that could both be effective out of combat as well as inside it would be great. Most of the game she will be inside an area full out of frostfell so i was thinking frostfell prodigy, along with the frozen magic. Again thank you everyone for your help.

[Christine Daae]

So anyone, anyone at all care to help me, even in the slightest? And would the ACF draconic familar be better then a normal one.

[Blackhawk748]

I would say take Frost Mage PrC since your in the frostfell anyway and it only has 1 feat as a prereq. As to the famialiar, well your a half dragon so it would kinda fit. IIRC Races of the Dragon has a feat that lets Half Dragons use their breath weapon every 1d4 rounds, so that may be a good idea. And Abjurant champion isnt a terrible idea, as who doesnt like more health and free metamagic stuff?

[Twilightwyrm]

First, yes, you still get the bonus feat from being human. Half-Dragon is a template, so it modifies the base creature rather than actually changing it.
Second, this all depends on what you are trying to do with the sorcerer. Are you blasting? Are you focusing on party support? Are you going for crowd control? Social ability? Transformation? Gishing? You say you accepted a -2 from Str for a +2 to Cha, which makes me think you aren't planning on being a gish (mage/warrior hybrid), but you say you are considering Abjurant Champion, basically the prototypical gish Prestige Class. So you need to decide on this first. Sorcerers can do very well in one, or a few, of these areas, but you don't have theoretically unlimited spells like the wizard. (Barring shenanigans)

[Christine Daae]

@Blackhawk748 I was thinking about Frost mage myself, but well it came to her being from a Chinese like culture in a temperate climate made me think it would not fit that well, as if her and her future husband choose to take over the empire (which they do plan to do at this time) being really good in cold environments which is a small portion of the map, and bad everywhere else is not a good idea. (His DCs are close to 20 for 0 level spells how much he has optimized his build to fucus on DCs) and is an illusionist banning Enchantment/Evocation/ and Necromancy.

The breath weapon feat sounds great thank you. I will also be using the draconic familiar then, do I just add the draconic template from Dracomoinca to a normal familiar to do so?

@Twilightwyrm I plan on trying to use BFC, debuffing, and buffing spells for my spell list, using my breath weapon and spear as my main weapons if I ever get close to melee combat. This is a mostly social campaign though and very few fights seem to happen in it, though the few that do are normally very challenging. I have only played D&D like 4 times now and don't know many things.

[Blackhawk748]

My god and you playing a Half Dragon Sorcerer? Congrats on leveling up your understanding of the game quickly lol Well another good PrC is the Dragonheart Mage, its one of my favorites actually. It requires Draconic Heritage and Draconic Breath, which your DM would prbly let you count as having Draconic Heritage, and gives you bonus Draconic Heritage Feats, and lets you burn spell slots to use a Breath weapon that has increasing damage as you advance in it. Its a pretty solid blasting class that really doesnt stop you from being a very good buff/debuffer as you dont need to learn an attack spell when you can just use up a lot to use a breath weapon.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Use this trick (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=267805#4).

Level adjustment is almost never worth it for a primary caster, as it's even worse than multiclassing. Luckily there are rules for reducing level adjustment (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm). As a half-dragon, you would normally need to hit character level 9 (nine class levels plus that level adjustment) to buy off the first point of that. However, if you gradually gain half-dragon (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030912a) then you can gradually buy it off, and the xp cost will be considerably lower as well.

Let's say you start with the first point of half-dragon before your first class level, at your third class level you can buy that off. Spend your next level on the second point of half-dragon, after gaining three more class levels that one can be bought off. Take the third point of half-dragon next, and then in three more class levels it's bought off as well. You end up at 9th level with it completely bought off, instead of hitting nine class levels (ECL 12) before you even start buying it off. Since your ECL is lower than the party level you'll be getting more xp per encounter and will eventually catch back up to the party level. This way half-dragon only costs you a temporary setback of only one or two levels at a time, rather than costing you three levels for your entire career.

[Twilightwyrm]

@Twilightwyrm I plan on trying to use BFC, debuffing, and buffing spells for my spell list, using my breath weapon and spear as my main weapons if I ever get close to melee combat. This is a mostly social campaign though and very few fights seem to happen in it, though the few that do are normally very challenging. I have only played D&D like 4 times now and don't know many things.

Well in this case there is a few things you will need. First, you need the feat Practiced Spellcaster. This will make up for the caster levels you lose by taking Pact-Bound Adept.
Second, you need the feat Dragon Breath (the feat that lets you use your breath weapon every 1d4 rounds), and while you are at it, Entangling Exhalation lets you turn your breath weapon into a nice, damaging, debuff.
Third, if you can, convince your DM to let you use the LA buyoff variant rules from Unearthed Arcana. Even being able to reduce the LA to +2 at 18th level will be worth the cost in XP.
Fourth, decide whether you want 9th level spells. They tend to be very powerful, but unless you suspect the game you are in is going to get incredibly difficult, or heavily optimized, they are not strictly required. You may want them regardless however, as having a 9th level spell slot gives you access to the most powerful versions of the Dragonpacts. If you decide you do, only take 3 levels of Pact-Bound Adept, otherwise the lost caster levels, combined with your LA, which makes gaining 9th level spells before epic levels generally impossible (barring Sublime Chord Shenanigans). Otherwise, feel free to take all 5 levels.
Fifth, Abjurant Champion would seem to work fine for you, but unless you are somehow already proficient with a martial weapon, qualifying will be problematic. You could, of course, always take a level of a fighting class, but this would also make gaining 9th level spells impossible. Hence, if you want take this class, find out how you want to qualify.
I can give a few sample builds if you want, but unless I know more about what you specifically want to do with this character, they will be somewhat limited.

EDIT: Nevermind, apparently you can start taking the LA buyoff as soon as you hit 9th level. Not sure why I thought it was 18th.

[Christine Daae]

@ Blackhawk748 Well yes I am playing a half dragon sorcerer, it fits the game, who her husband would be, and well sorcerers rather well. As for Draconic heritage I also need the feat for Pact bound adept from Dragon magic so one feat that helps with two classes, yes please.

Does Dragonheart Mage advance my casting, as it would seem to fit rather well, and making my cone of stupidity do damage sounds amazing in my eyes as it already makes them weaker.

As for catching on so quick well I have just joined two games before this, one a Elesitrel touched Drow Wizard 1/Paladin 4

Another
Gnome Bard 4/Cleric 4//Marshal 2///Gnome paragon 2 for a trisalt game and have a few friends who play with a passion, one of them being the sorcerers lover I am making now.

[Christine Daae]

@Twilightwyrm The Dm has no worries about the LA and allowed me to count it as all bought off already just to start at level 1.

Practiced spellcaster added to list of feats needed.

List of feats needed
Draconic heritage, Draconic breath, Practiced spellcaster,Entangling Exhalation, Combat casting

I would like 9th level spells, if only to fuel the pact yes.

Could I not just take the feat Marital weapon proficiency to qualify? If not I am willing to take a 2 level dip in paladin for divine grace

[Twilightwyrm]

@Twilightwyrm The Dm has no worries about the LA and allowed me to count it as all bought off already just to start at level 1.

Practiced spellcaster added to list of feats needed.

List of feats needed
Draconic heritage, Draconic breath, Practiced spellcaster,Entangling Exhalation, Combat casting

I would like 9th level spells, if only to fuel the pact yes.

Could I not just take the feat Marital weapon proficiency to qualify? If not I am willing to take a 2 level dip in paladin for divine grace

Well that depends on whether you think proficiency with a single weapon is worth a feat. You only have three left. Two levels of Paladin would be interesting, but you would need to be Lawful Good (unless your Dm is using variant Paladins). Unless you really want Divine Grace, I would just as soon go Fighter 1, as this will not just net you what you need, it could also get you the ability to cast in armor, as well as another feat to use.

[Crake]

Level adjustment is almost never worth it for a primary caster, as it's even worse than multiclassing. Luckily there are rules for reducing level adjustment (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm). As a half-dragon, you would normally need to hit character level 9 (nine class levels plus that level adjustment) to buy off the first point of that. However, if you gradually gain half-dragon (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030912a) then you can gradually buy it off, and the xp cost will be considerably lower as well.

I think gradually gaining a template like that and LA buyoff are mutually exclusive, since savage progression is actually gaining class levels that don't have HD, then at the end of the class, you get the template, which then give you LA in exchange for those class levels. So you cant take 1 level then buy it off, because the class level doesn't actually give you a level adjustment to buy off in the first place.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Fourth, decide whether you want 9th level spells. They tend to be very powerful, but unless you suspect the game you are in is going to get incredibly difficult, or heavily optimized, they are not strictly required. You may want them regardless however, as having a 9th level spell slot gives you access to the most powerful versions of the Dragonpacts. If you decide you do, only take 3 levels of Pact-Bound Adept, otherwise the lost caster levels, combined with your LA, which makes gaining 9th level spells before epic levels generally impossible (barring Sublime Chord Shenanigans). Otherwise, feel free to take all 5 levels.


I would like 9th level spells, if only to fuel the pact yes.

Could I not just take the feat Marital weapon proficiency to qualify? If not I am willing to take a 2 level dip in paladin for divine grace

Guys, you do realize that one of the class features for the pact-bound adept (one of my favorite prestige classes, I'll admit) is that it gives you an effective bonus to your sacrificed spell slot? By the time you hit 5th level, a 7th level slot counts as a 9th for the purposes of the SLAs granted.

[Christine Daae]

@Kuulvheysoon no I did not know that. Makes this all the better.

[Grim Reader]

Not sure if your Draconic Heritage feat is the one from Dragon Compendium. If not, have a look at that, those heritage feats are good for Sorcerers.

[Christine Daae]

I am using the draconic heritage feats from Races of the dragons and complete arcane. At level 1 so far I have Draconic heritage and Draconic power to increase my caster level by 1.

[Twilightwyrm]

Guys, you do realize that one of the class features for the pact-bound adept (one of my favorite prestige classes, I'll admit) is that it gives you an effective bonus to your sacrificed spell slot? By the time you hit 5th level, a 7th level slot counts as a 9th for the purposes of the SLAs granted.

Nice, I must have missed that part. Well it is immaterial at this point, since there is no LA to worry about denying 9th level spells.