[Pathfinder] Rogue / Master Spy help?

[Shammikaze]

Hey, D&D / Pathfinder newbie here. Playing my first Pathfinder game this week. My friend is running an all-dwarf game (and has allowed only the Core book and the APG). I decided to be the rogue of the group, and instead of going full-combat (since everyone else always optimizes combat / damage) I decided to go the subtle, social, "works in the background" type... As such I was trying to optimize a good Rogue to lead into Master Spy... I want to optimize things like Bluff, Disguise, Sleight of Hand, etc... Here is what I have so far:

Race: Dwarf
Class: Rogue 3 (Burglar Archetype)

Traits: Fast Talker / Child of the Streets
Feats: Stone-Faced, Deceitful
Talents: Finesse Rogue (grants Weapon Finesse feat)

Abilities: (He gave us set-in-stone ability values to assign - these are the values AFTER racial adjustments)
S - 10
D - 18
C - 12
W - 16
I - 14
Ch - 12

Skill totals at level 3:
Bluff +14
Disable Device +11
Disguise +19 (Hat of Disguise)
Linguistics +9
Sleight of Hand +11
Stealth +10

Starting Gold = 3,000 (Purchased Hat of Disguise + Mithral Chain Shirt)

How am I doing so far? I'm thinking of not taking a prestige level until level 9 (so I can get the level 8 Rogue talent), or is that a bad idea?

My level 6 feat will need to be Iron Will. I forgot what I was thinking for my level 6 and 8 Rogue talents.

[Sheogoroth]

It's all about bluff, stealth, and gear for the conversational side.
Other than that, it looks fine. I would say that the hat of disguise is a little much- there is some non-magical gear that is much cheaper that gives you a hefty bonus.

Let me try to help you out with gear:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/goods-and-services/tools-kits
Your bread and buttter: you got your thieves kit(for lockpicking), your grappling hook, your skeleton key, and your rope.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/goods-and-services/containers-bags-boxes-more
here are your disguises- wigs, tearaway clothes and whatnot. But an interesting choice is the poison pill ring- it gives you a bonus on slight of hand attempts and there really is a lot you can do with it.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/goods-and-services/herbs-oils-other-substances
There are some interesting things here for low levels, but the only neccessity is tinderwig. You never know when you need to start a fire as a distraction or espionage.

Then, of course, there's poison.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/afflictions/poison
sink all of your excess gold into poison. Be careful to note the difference between ingested, injury, and contact.
Might be a good idea to get a few injury and at least one ingested with a high DC for your poison ring, just in case you need to kill/cripple someone in a pinch.

[Shammikaze]

Nice! Thanks for the reply and all the links. My only issue here is that Ultimate Equipment isn't a book that he said he'd allow and a lot of the stuff seems to come from it...

And yes, I already have the thieves kit, etc. He's letting us have out "essentials" for free.

[Sephoris]

There isn't any way to squeeze a little more Charisma out of those starting values, is there? It's going to be a little rough being the social guy with only a 12, but you can't really afford to give up that Dex, and it looks like that's the only higher value you've got to work with.

The only alternative I can think of there would be to consider a roguish Bard rather than an actual Rogue, that could justify dropping the big score into Cha. I don't know if you'd want to do that or if it works with your character concept, though.

[grarrrg]

My friend is running an all-dwarf game
...
Abilities: (He gave us set-in-stone ability values to assign - these are the values AFTER racial adjustments)
S - 10
D - 18
C - 12
W - 16
I - 14
Ch - 12

So you get one 18, three 14's and two 10's?
Combined with the "all dwarf" thing, you've got it rough for stats.


My level 6 feat will need to be Iron Will.

If this is a straight PF game, then you gets feats every odd level.


The only alternative I can think of there would be to consider a roguish Bard rather than an actual Rogue, that could justify dropping the big score into Cha. I don't know if you'd want to do that or if it works with your character concept, though.

Dropping his one good score in CHA would help the social, but that would leave him with a 14 in STR or DEX for combat.
I'd advise against putting the big score in CHA for that reason.

I want to recommend be an Inquisitor instead, then you could make better use of WIS at least. They can make solid skill monkeys (up to you if you still need to dip Rogue for Trapfinding (for Magical traps) though.
The downside, is that the "awesome social Inquisitor" stuff (i.e. getting WIS to social skills) is all in non-allowed books (archetypes (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/inquisitor/archetypes/paizo---inquisitor-archetypes/heretic) and (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/inquisitor/archetypes/paizo---inquisitor-archetypes/infiltrator) Inquisitions (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/inquisitor/archetypes/paizo---inquisitor-archetypes/inquisitions/conversion-inquisition)).
Still may be worth a look though.

[Shammikaze]

Mother of God. How did I not realize that feats are every other level?? This is amazing!

Also, his stat array was 18,16,14,12,10,10
Dwarves get +2 con / +2 wis / -2 cha

I tried balancing the attributes as best as I could without losing too much cha, but maintaining a high int for skill points.

[Sephoris]

Mother of God. How did I not realize that feats are every other level?? This is amazing!

Also, his stat array was 18,16,14,12,10,10
Dwarves get +2 con / +2 wis / -2 cha

I tried balancing the attributes as best as I could without losing too much cha, but maintaining a high int for skill points.

I think something went wrong with your stat assignment then.


S - 10 : No bonus, so that's a 10
D - 18 : No bonus, so that's the 18
C - 12 : +2, so that's the other 10
W - 16 : +2, so that should be the 14
I - 14 : No bonus, so that should also be the 14
Ch - 12 : -2, so that should also be the 14.


I would put the 16 in Cha, for a 14 after the penalty, probably leave Int with the 14, and put the 12 in Wis, for another 14 there. Alternatively, you could switch around the Int and Wis, for 1 less skill rank per level, but a better Sense Motive and Perception.

[Shammikaze]

Str = 10
Dex = 18
Con = 10 + 2 = 12
Int = 16
Wis = 12 + 2 = 14
Cha = 14 -2 = 12

Edit: I like the 16 int for the extra skill point every level. It means I can keep more of my vital skills maxed as I level, while still obtaining ranks in lesser ones. Things I would like to keep maxed are:

Bluff
Disable Device
Disguise
Escape Artist
Linguistics
Perception
Sense Motive
Sleight of Hand
Stealth
Use Magic Device