Wizard Spellbook Questions

[Yogibear41]

So lets say you have a character who has a couple levels under his belt and he decides he wants to go wizard for whatever reason, lets assume he has all the knowledge of how to become said wizard, maybe someone taught him maybe he read a How-To guide. However, said person doesn't magically get a spellbook, and maybe he can't find one for purchase anywhere. So technically while he may have all his 0 level spells and 3+int 1st level spells "known" at 1st level he has no way to prepare them, however what if said individual happened to take wizard as his 3rd class level, and at the same time used his 3rd level feat to pick up Spell Mastery, would that entitle him to being able to prepare those few spells he selects even though he has never actually had a spell book?

What if he levels up a bit to say 6th level continuing to learn his 2 spells per level but never actually finds a spellbook to write them in, would he at 6th level be able to take spell mastery again to be able to prepare yet another few select spells per day? Or would he need to find a spellbook first and actually write them down somewhere for spell mastery to be applicable.

[Yuki Akuma]

If he doesn't have a spellbook he can tattoo his spells onto himself. Or carve them into rocks. Or any number of things. A spellbook doesn't have to literally be a book made of bound paper or vellum.

The feat Spell Master specifies spells you already know, so I guess you can take it even if you level up without a spellbook handy. But really, being without a spellbook isn't that likely considering how many ways there are of writing spells down.

[Nerd-o-rama]

To answer your question, yes. You can prepare whatever spells you select for Spell Mastery without ever writing them down, as long as they're spells you get automatically from leveling (ganking someone else's spellbook and memorizing a spell from it once probably counts as knowing it too, although at that point that would be "your" spellbook).

Also Spell Mastery is lacking the standard clause that says you can take it more than once, but the text of the feat does say "each time you take this feat", so I assume you can do this as many times as you want.

[CaladanMoonblad]

As a GM, I would require the external memory aid (spellbook) as a prereq to get into Wizard. You wouldn't be able to take the first level in my game without all the bells and whistles being present. The storyline has to meet the mechanics in order to get the mechanics.

The scenario the OP suggested is... one of a medieval person being stuck in a stone age culture? I don't get how someone could become a wizard without access to the traditional tools of the trade. I mean, how does someone choose Craft (Stonemasonry) when all they have done the last few levels is adventure in the very same dungeon. Any GM who lets unreasonable feats or ranks that make no sense in the overall story is just asking for trouble.

[Yuki Akuma]

Any DM who requires you to roleplay every single thing your character does and doesn't let you train for things off screen is unreasonable.

[Yogibear41]

Said person meets another wizard out in the middle of nowhere, is like cool you have magics mind teaching me? Said wizard agrees for a price, character learns how to record, read, and memorize spells into a spellbook, also learns his base allotment of spells from said wizard. Unfortunanetly, said wizard is not willing to give up his spellbook(who would?) and does not have an extra one to give to his new apprentice.

[Norin]

Said person meets another wizard out in the middle of nowhere, is like cool you have magics mind teaching me? Said wizard agrees for a price, character learns how to record, read, and memorize spells into a spellbook, also learns his base allotment of spells from said wizard. Unfortunanetly, said wizard is not willing to give up his spellbook(who would?) and does not have an extra one to give to his new apprentice.

I would allow it if the above scenario occured.

I assume said character also gained his wizard level the same level a feat slot was available to get Spell Mastery.

But what a strange situation though. I would also invest a rank or two in craft bookbinding or something along those lines and just make a spellbook asap.

[Terazul]

Any DM who requires you to roleplay every single thing your character does and doesn't let you train for things off screen is unreasonable.

Seriously. This is why you just give up the familiar and scribe scroll for Eidetic Spellcasting.

[Gorfnod]

As I see it the spellbook, while being part of the traditional wizard lore, is also meant to be a way of reigning in wizard power using WBL as a means of limiting wizard spells known, particularly at lower levels.

So where is said character? In the woods? Maybe he harvests some plant pigments and scribes on to bark and has to use some other costly components, maybe some gems on hand?, to replace the normal costs of a spellbook. Or even just let the player scribe freely and keep a virtual tally running and subtract it from WBL. If you dont't even play with WBL then who cares, let him write his spells on a piece of toilet paper when he gains a level. Whatever the medium they serve the same purpose as a spellbook, must be used to prepare spells, and can be taken away to prevent preparation.

[Fouredged Sword]

The the adventurer takes some loose paper out of his pack and some ink, and manages to jot the spells down. He should probably get a book to write those down is as soon as he can. He gets to skip the expensive ink because his class says he doesn't have to pay out to write these spells.

Alternatively, he doesn't write the spells down. At each level he gains a number of spells he can write into his spellbook for free. Nothing is stopping him from waiting until he gets said spellbook before he uses those free spell writing uses. He cannot prepare the spells until he writes them down though.

Taking weapon focus longsword doesn't give you a free longsword ether.

[Yogibear41]

Seriously. This is why you just give up the familiar and scribe scroll for Eidetic Spellcasting.

What if you are to busy giving them up for something else though :smallsmile:

Also, what if the guy who taught you was a normal wizard with a book, how could he teach you to smoke for your spells if he didn't know how to himself?



Taking weapon focus longsword doesn't give you a free longsword ether.

I don't really think that is something to compare this too, spells aren't a piece of metal, the knowledge of the spell has to be understood even without a spellbook, its main use is as a refresher and for the specific details of each spell, taking spell mastery gives you the full ability to remember said specific details for a limited amount of spells because you are burning a feat to specifically be able to remember them without needing a spellbook. If you understand the spell well enough to copy it into a book, you could theoretically memorize it permanently in your head by using the feat IMO. Use another scroll or book to get the spell down, as per the rules then take the feat. Worst case scenario draw a picture in the dirt if you have too, then take the feat.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Admittedly, there is a point at which, if you are not sufficiently dedicated to finding a way to write down your knowledge, you're probably not dedicated enough to amount to much as a Wizard. I was just answering this as a quirky rules question.

Also, you could just be a sorcerer.

[Yogibear41]

Admittedly, there is a point at which, if you are not sufficiently dedicated to finding a way to write down your knowledge, you're probably not dedicated enough to amount to much as a Wizard. I was just answering this as a quirky rules question.

Also, you could just be a sorcerer.

Oh, I completely agree it was mainly a temporary thing. Or maybe a long run thing once the character had taken spell mastery a sufficient number of times to no longer need his spellbook.(looking at this for a potential e6 game)

I'd actually prefer sorcerer really, I like spontaneous casting and more spells and not having to worry about a spellbook, but for what I plan on potentially doing I would only have 4 levels of casting in an e6 world and I really don't want to be stuck knowing only 1 2nd level spell forever. Also, I think actively looking/adventuring to find new spells is one of the draws of playing a wizard, while a sorcerer is sort of stuck with just what hes got.

[Yuki Akuma]

Writing a spell down in the dirt is one expensive dirt drawing (although technically your starting spells are free). It's one way of doing things, though, if you really can't work out a way to write down a more permanent copy.

But seriously, it's probably just better to carry around a bunch of stones with spells scratched into them with your dagger. Or lengths of wood. Or scar them into your flesh. Etc.

[Yogibear41]

Well, got another hypothetical question for ya, let say Mr. Wizard is very small, let say "tiny" with a str score or around only 4, and having to carry around that heavy spellbook is starting to become a nuissance. What then? do all spellbooks have to be the same size? I know spells basically cost "pages" but does it say anywhere that a spellbook has to be a specific size or could it vary based on the size of the individual?


Also what if your hands(claws) don't have fine manipulation(can still do somatic components though) how do you right your spells into your book? Can prestidigitation do it for you?

[Fouredged Sword]

You have your own notation, so it is assumed that your notation is writable using your own physiology. Spellbooks are objects, and thus can be scaled up or down to creature sizes. A muckdweller wizard has a tiny spellbook (and a muckdweller familiar). A stormgiant wizard has a huge book.

[Yuki Akuma]

If you have claws, you probably scratch your spells into some sort of hard surface. Maybe wax or wood. I don't think Prestidigitation can do it.

It's also possible that wizards of races without fine manipulators could know a homebrew write magic cantrip or something. Or their style of wizardry would naturally be Eidetic Wizardry.

[CaladanMoonblad]

Any DM who requires you to roleplay every single thing your character does and doesn't let you train for things off screen is unreasonable.

A hyperbolic straw man (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man) which is in turn an ad hominem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem).

My point is that the above situation should not occur at all; there has to be some in game decisions to rationalize a level in any class, or choice in feats, or ranks in a skill. I would seriously question one of my player's decisions to pick up Knowledge (Astronomy) without some in game inclination of acquiring an astronomy book, or apprenticing to an astronomer, or somehow explaining the mechanics. Contrary to your characterization, this is called being reasonable (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasonable).

[Sephoris]

If he doesn't have a spellbook he can tattoo his spells onto himself. Or carve them into rocks. Or any number of things. A spellbook doesn't have to literally be a book made of bound paper or vellum.

The feat Spell Master specifies spells you already know, so I guess you can take it even if you level up without a spellbook handy. But really, being without a spellbook isn't that likely considering how many ways there are of writing spells down.

Oh man, my next character concept for Pathfinder is a wordcaster Magus, and (GM willing) I think I have to have him tattoo his Words onto himself now. The inability to be stolen is a nice bonus, but I'm pretty sure I can work out out drawback(s) that would make it fair. Obviously it would be a lot easier for others to figure out what spells I know when they're written all over me. Maybe a Spellcraft roll to discern some or all of my known spells. Longer and/or more expensive spell scribing, maybe requiring a Craft or Profession skill in tattooing to be able to do it myself. A chance on taking a large enough hit that one of the tattoos becomes too damaged to read, making me unable to memorize it until it's rescribed (imagine the panic if that happened to one of my target words).

I never would have thought of this, but I'm really excited about it now. Thanks.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Oh man, my next character concept for Pathfinder is a wordcaster Magus, and (GM willing) I think I have to have him tattoo his Words onto himself now. The inability to be stolen is a nice bonus, but I'm pretty sure I can work out out drawback(s) that would make it fair. Obviously it would be a lot easier for others to figure out what spells I know when they're written all over me. Maybe a Spellcraft roll to discern some or all of my known spells. Longer and/or more expensive spell scribing, maybe requiring a Craft or Profession skill in tattooing to be able to do it myself. A chance on taking a large enough hit that one of the tattoos becomes too damaged to read, making me unable to memorize it until it's rescribed (imagine the panic if that happened to one of my target words).

I never would have thought of this, but I'm really excited about it now. Thanks.
Off the top of my head, the contortions and/or mirror arrays needed to read something off your back are quite extensive.

Of course you could always get someone else (a floating, intelligent skull, say) to read your notes of your back for you, but that has its own problems.

Also, you've only got so much tattooable surface area, but this is probably less of a problem for a PF Magus than a Wizard.

[Yuki Akuma]

According to Complete Arcane, Wizards can get help from their familiars to read spells tattooed on their backs, but I don't think Magi have familiars.

[Sephoris]

According to Complete Arcane, Wizards can get help from their familiars to read spells tattooed on their backs, but I don't think Magi have familiars.

They don't, but it actually shouldn't be much of an issue. Every Word of Power uses a single page, regardless of level, so wordcasters start having dramatically smaller spellbooks than standard casters once they start getting higher level. At 20 my Magus will have learned slightly more spells than he can see without aid, and could possibly learn too many spells to tattoo if he goes really crazy with scrolls (though I expect finding Words of Power to scribe to be significantly harder in most campaigns than finding normal spells), but he'll have nowhere near the problems a standard caster would have with spellbook size.

EDIT: I stand corrected. Magi don't get familiars as a base feature, but they can take an Arcana that gives them one. I was also throwing around the idea of taking the Bladebound archetype, and the Black Blade can 'see' and functions like a familiar in a lot of ways, so it should be able to help me with reading the tattoos.

[Crake]

A "known spell" is specified in the phb for wizards (under "known spell" in the glossary at the back) as such: "For wizards, knowing a spell means having it in their spellbooks."

Thus you need a spellbook (or an equivalent of some kind) to actually have "known" spells. If you wanna get spell mastery, you need to have a spellbook with spells in it, thus if you're planning on levelling up wizard, you better go find yourself a spellbook before doing so.