What id the Alternative class features weren't alternative?

[supermonkeyjoe]

What would happen if certain classes could pick a number of alternative class features as additions rather than replacements (At least for the mundane classes, because casters already have enough nice things. :smallbiggrin:)

Would giving any ACFs as straight additions instead or replacements completely break the class? Obviously features such as you get animal companion X instead of Companion Y would be incompatible but a lot of ACFs replace class features with completely disparate abilities such as the paladin replacing his steed with charging smite What if he got them both?

how about allowing a number of ACFs according to the classes tier? 0 for tier 1 classes, 2 for tier 3 classes etc.

What would the paladin look like if it got charging smite, divine spirit etc. as well as a horse?

Barring of course the classes that don't have enough published ACFs to work but certainly the core and complete classes should have enough options.

[Blackhawk748]

Im just thinking of a Dungeuoncrasher, City, Divine Fighter. That would be awesome

[aleucard]

It really depends on the acf. Giving the paladin or ranger the abilities they get from their non-caster variants as well as normal wouldn't do much, maybe 1/4th a step up if anything, but getting both favored environment and favored enemy for example would probably bump the ranger up a tier. Can you give a few examples?

[Nettlekid]

Some classes have so few class features that it would just flesh them out a little. Wizards being able to keep their Familiar, get Abrupt Jaunt, AND speed up their Summon Monster spells from ACFs would be made stronger, but since they get basically one class feature anyway, it's doesn't make them more broken than they are already. Most people would just pick one of those anyway, so having them all is more like a small bonus. Clerics and Paladins are loathe to lose Turn Undead, but there are some neat ACFs that are good except that they replace Turn Undead, so it would give them a chance to try those out.

Meanwhile, classes like Bard, Druid, or Ranger that have lots and lots of class features and lots and lots of ACFs replacing those various features suddenly trick themselves out as like 2 characters, 1.5 easily. The Druid ACFs in UA are really powerful already, and this is bumping them up without losing anything good. Rangers get Wild Shape and keep their combat styles, making them not unlike a pure melee Druid. Bards have SO MANY class features. Like ALL of them.

So, it makes a nice bonus to some classes, but really piles on too much for some others.

[Crake]

Rogue with the feat ACF ontop of it's sneak attack would be neat. As would the thug fighter ACF giving it sneak attack in addition to it's bonus feats.

Edit: And then gestalt them, so you get double feats and double sneak attack, just for fun

[SowZ]

It really depends on the acf. Giving the paladin or ranger the abilities they get from their non-caster variants as well as normal wouldn't do much, maybe 1/4th a step up if anything, but getting both favored environment and favored enemy for example would probably bump the ranger up a tier. Can you give a few examples?

Nah, even if they got their favored enemy bonus against all enemies in all circumstances it wouldn't boost a tier because favored enemy isn't that big of a deal.

[eggynack]

This can't really work in this way. Some ACF's trade out big and powerful things for other big and powerful things, while other ACF's trade out tiny and meaningless things for other tiny and meaningless things. If you just people choose ACF's without trading anything, people can just pick the big and powerful things with no drawback. You also have to take ACF's that involve more than one trade into account. It's a complicated thing.

[RFLS]

Well, for starters, Barbarians in general would get pretty ridiculous, and Mystic Ranger would be a no brainer.


Rogue with the feat ACF ontop of it's sneak attack would be neat. As would the thug fighter ACF giving it sneak attack in addition to it's bonus feats.

Edit: And then gestalt them, so you get double feats and double sneak attack, just for fun

This wouldn't work; if two classes grant the same feature, it accrues at the rate of the faster progression (so no +18d6 sneak attack).

[Mithril Leaf]

Well, for starters, Barbarians in general would get pretty ridiculous, and Mystic Ranger would be a no brainer.

This is true, but those classes are only tier 4 as is, so adding a variety of abilities for free would probably bump them up to tier 3. Mystic Ranger is tier 1 with Wizard spells for the first 10 levels of course, and that would have to dealt with. Overall, it's not too crazy.

[Xervous]

The commoner already gets all of its alternate class features as class features. Obviously, it must be a very powerful class.

[Vedhin]

Monks would have a truly astronomical pile of class features and bonus feats. They'd still suck except as a dip.

[Mithril Leaf]

The commoner already gets all of its alternate class features as class features. Obviously, it must be a very powerful class.

They're powerful like warmages are powerful. Since you've got nothing to lose, may as well just focus entirely on the tiny skillset you have. For example, Commoners are great at Handle Animal since that's all they can do and will focus all their power on it. They aren't good, but they can honestly be viable if you play them well.

[Vedhin]

They're powerful like warmages are powerful. Since you've got nothing to lose, may as well just focus entirely on the tiny skillset you have. For example, Commoners are great at Handle Animal since that's all they can do and will focus all their power on it. They aren't good, but they can honestly be viable if you play them well.

Have you read the explanation of why commoners are Tier 1 (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCsQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.giantitp.com%2Fforums%2Fshowt hread.php%3Ft%3D285984&ei=jHINUtTkNMrq2AWp_ICIBA&usg=AFQjCNGXoTUUofQvco1s5kOnIqOF5tcolg&sig2=XeTH4pCZq5YQXV7thKomnA&bvm=bv.50768961,d.b2I)?
And the Commoner Handbook (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCsQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.giantitp.com%2Fforums%2Fshowt hread.php%3Ft%3D232822&ei=TXINUoGPI-n42AXypYHoCg&usg=AFQjCNGe5oU0hXkaB_4iM5ZZMeJvQvZLcQ&sig2=FJJK2lKRBCzgRJt7A-sAKw&bvm=bv.50768961,d.b2I) deserves a maention to any who claim the Commoner is underpowered.