A question about selecting spells

[Cheiromancer]

In the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/castingSpells.htm) it says that
If a spell has multiple versions, you choose which version to use when you cast it. You don’t have to prepare (or learn, in the case of a bard or sorcerer) a specific version of the spell.
Is this rule ever violated? Is there a published version of any spell where options are selected when spells are prepared or regained in the morning?

I was thinking of restricting the flexibility of my alternative to polymorph (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=296532) in this way (/shameless plug), but I would feel more comfortable if there were precedent for this sort of move.

[Nettlekid]

In the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/castingSpells.htm) it says that
Is this rule ever violated? Is there a published version of any spell where options are selected when spells are prepared or regained in the morning?

I was thinking of restricting the flexibility of my alternative to polymorph (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=296532) in this way (/shameless plug), but I would feel more comfortable if there were precedent for this sort of move.

I'm not entirely sure what you (or the SRD) means by multiple versions of the same spell. Like divine and arcane versions? Or does it mean like, Energy Immunity, where you choose Energy Immunity: Cold, or Energy Immunity: Fire, as you're casting it?

If the latter is the case, then I think it's much more of a case-by-case effect of the spell, and the only way to decide what type of the spell it is at the beginning of the day would be if you had some mechanic to cast the spell, and then activate it later. Like War Weaver's Quiescent Weave, where you cast the spell into the weave. But even that is up to interpretation.

I don't get why the versatility would be a bad thing, though? Choosing how a spell works at the time of casting can provide the same effect as choosing how it works when you prepare it, but also different effects, based on the circumstance.

[Cheiromancer]

The most flexible spells are those like polymorph or summon monster, which give dozens of options (at least). The form (or monster) is chosen when you cast the spell. It can always be the perfect option for the situation you find yourself in.

It is easy to think that a flexible spell might be "rigidified" to one version. Instead of polymorph you might have trollshape; instead of summon monster III you might have engulfing terror (it creates a gelatinous cube). What I'm thinking of is something more rigid than "choose when you cast" but not as rigid as "option set when the spell is researched".

It would be a mild nerf to an overly powerful spell. I am just wondering if there is any precedent for it.

[Nettlekid]

The most flexible spells are those like polymorph or summon monster, which give dozens of options (at least). The form (or monster) is chosen when you cast the spell. It can always be the perfect option for the situation you find yourself in.

It is easy to think that a flexible spell might be "rigidified" to one version. Instead of polymorph you might have trollshape; instead of summon monster III you might have engulfing terror (it creates a gelatinous cube). What I'm thinking of is something more rigid than "choose when you cast" but not as rigid as "option set when the spell is researched".

It would be a mild nerf to an overly powerful spell. I am just wondering if there is any precedent for it.

Oh, I see what you mean. Well, it doesn't work QUITE like what you want, but it's sort of a halfway point, is Anyspell, which has a 15 minute casting time, and then in those 15 minutes you prepare an arcane spell in the same spell slot. So it's sort of like, wow, Anyspell can become any spell you want, but at the same time, you have to decide long before you need it what spell you want it to be. I think most Clerics casting it would do so right at the beginning of the day, thus preparing it basically as "Anyspell (Invisibility)" or whatever, and later cast the Invisibility as they see fit for it.

I mean, if you're homebrewing it or just tweaking the spells, then you can have them do exactly that. I think it's a bit too limiting to force a Wizard to learn how to do Will-o-Wispshape, Trollshape, and Unicornshape all as different spells, but if they learned Polymorph and then as they prepared the spell, prepared "Polymorph (Will-o-Wisp)", "Polymorph (Troll)", and "Polymorph (Unicorn)", then it doesn't quite allow them to be whatever the situation calls for. I don't know how it would work for Sorcerers, though, with the spontaneous casting. Unless you actually would make them learn different spells.

[Cheiromancer]

I think it's a bit too limiting to force a Wizard to learn how to do Will-o-Wispshape, Trollshape, and Unicornshape all as different spells, but if they learned Polymorph and then as they prepared the spell, prepared "Polymorph (Will-o-Wisp)", "Polymorph (Troll)", and "Polymorph (Unicorn)", then it doesn't quite allow them to be whatever the situation calls for. I don't know how it would work for Sorcerers, though, with the spontaneous casting. Unless you actually would make them learn different spells.

That's exactly what I was thinking.

The sorcerer would choose the daily version when he regains his daily complement of spells. It is a bit unfair in that the wizard could choose polymorph (troll) in one slot and polymorph (hydra) in another, but the sorcerer would have to choose one option and stick to it. But that's the trade-off for being a sorcerer: a greater number of spells, but less variety.

[Nettlekid]

That's exactly what I was thinking.

The sorcerer would choose the daily version when he regains his daily complement of spells. It is a bit unfair in that the wizard could choose polymorph (troll) in one slot and polymorph (hydra) in another, but the sorcerer would have to choose one option and stick to it. But that's the trade-off for being a sorcerer: a greater number of spells, but less variety.

Perhaps allow a Sorcerer to have some form of the Arcane Preparation feat, or something completely custom which allows them to choose up to X types of the same spell.

Or perhaps something like either the Spirit Shaman or the Erudite. For the Spirit Shaman, you "know" all spells you can prepare, like a Cleric, and can cast any ones you have available, but have to decide which ones you have available. Perhaps the Sorcerer can have a list of spells known, and then a new list of spells available to cast, maybe with the same (or slightly more) number of spells as spells known. So like, a 12th level Sorcerer has 3 4th level spells known. They are Polymorph, Dimension Door, and Celerity. Perhaps he has 5 4th level spells available. So of course he chooses Dimension Door and Celerity as spells available, and then has three spells available left, so he can choose three different Polymorph spells that he could later cast at will. If you make the spells known/spells available list equal, then he could only choose one kind of Polymorph that day or else he would have to go without Dimension Door or Celerity that day. Perhaps you decide this at the beginning of the day, or maybe it's like the Erudite's UPD, if you spontaneously cast three different kinds of Polymorph, then that's 3 Unique Spells per Day gone, and so you have fewer of your other spells available after that.

[Cheiromancer]

Your suggestion about Unique Powers per Day is very clever, but I think it would be a tweak to the rules for sorcerers. It doesn't seem like the kind of thing you'd include in a spell description. However there is no reason why this spell even has to be open to sorcerers. It could be a wizard only spell.

Or maybe there is a clever bit of wording that would work for both classes. My current draft is "The new form must be within one size category of your normal size and of the animal or humanoid type, and is chosen when you prepare or regain spells for the day."

Does this make it sound like a wizard who prepares two copies must prepare the same form for each? That is not my intent. And I guess I am presuming that a wizard prepares all his spells in the morning. If a slot is left open I would want the wizard to be able to select a different form. The words "for the day" could be omitted, I guess.

It is difficult to write rules that are simultaneously accurate, clear and concise.

[Nettlekid]

It's a bit difficult to make what you're suggesting clear with just a small blurb, but if you intend to use this in a game that you're DMing, I think you'd be able to explain this out as you have and people would understand.

Question: How does this interact with stuff like Warshaper, which lets you change your form during the duration of a single casting? Or Master Transmogrifist? Or of course, Shapechange in general?