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re_e
2013-08-09, 09:25 PM
Some creature types have weapon proficiencies in his type traits. Normally this is irrelevant, because the playable races are humanoids. But for non-humanoid races? Aasimars, tieflings, genasis, dromites, elans, half-giants, etc. These races gain the weapon proficiency of it type traits?

In the humanoid description there is:

Humanoid Type

A humanoid usually has two arms, two legs, and one head, or a humanlike torso, arms, and a head. Humanoids have few or no supernatural or extraordinary abilities, but most can speak and usually have well-developed societies. They usually are Small or Medium. Every humanoid creature also has a subtype, such as elf, goblinoid, or reptilian.

Humanoids with 1 Hit Die exchange the features of their humanoid Hit Die for the class features of a PC or NPC class. Humanoids of this sort are presented as 1st-level warriors, which means that they have average combat ability and poor saving throws.

Humanoids with more than 1 Hit Die (for example, gnolls and bugbears) are the only humanoids who make use of the features of the humanoid type.

Features: A humanoid has the following features (unless otherwise noted in a creature's entry).

8-sided Hit Dice, or by character class.
Base attack bonus equal to 3/4 total Hit Dice (as cleric).
Good Reflex saves (usually; a humanoid's good save varies).
Skill points equal to (2 + Int modifier, minimum 1) per Hit Die, with quadruple skill points for the first Hit Die, or by character class.

Traits: A humanoid possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature's entry).

Proficient with all simple weapons, or by character class.
Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, or by character class. If a humanoid does not have a class and wears armor, it is proficient with that type of armor and all lighter types. Humanoids not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Humanoids are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.
Humanoids breathe, eat, and sleep.

Is explicitly written that humanoids changes the simple weapon proficiency by the weapon proficiency of the character class.
Now compare the aberration type and the elan race description:

Aberration Type

An aberration has a bizarre anatomy, strange abilities, an alien mindset, or any combination of the three.
Features

An aberration has the following features.

8-sided Hit Dice.
Base attack bonus equal to ¾ total Hit Dice (as cleric).
Good Will saves.
Skill points equal to (2 + Int modifier, minimum 1) per Hit Die, with quadruple skill points for the first Hit Die.

Traits

An aberration possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).

Darkvision out to 60 feet.
Proficient with its natural weapons. If generally humanoid in form, proficient with all simple weapons and any weapon it is described as using.
Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Aberrations not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Aberrations are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.
Aberrations eat, sleep, and breathe.

Elan Race

-2 Charisma
Aberration: Elans are not subject to spells or effects that affect humanoids only, such as charm person or dominate person.
Medium: As Medium creatures, elans have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Elan base land speed is 30 feet.
Elans (unlike most aberrations) do not have darkvision.
Naturally Psionic: Elans gain 2 bonus power points at 1st level. This benefit does not grant them the ability to manifest powers unless they gain that ability through another source, such as levels in a psionic class.
Resistance (Su): Elans can use psionic energy to increase their resistance to various forms of attack. As an immediate action, an elan can spend 1 power point to gain a +4 racial bonus on saving throws until the beginning of her next action.
Resilience (Su): When an elan takes damage, she can spend power points to reduce its severity. As an immediate action, she can reduce the damage she is about to take by 2 hit points for every 1 power point she spends.
Repletion (Su): An elan can sustain her body without need of food or water. If she spends 1 power point, an elan does not need to eat or drink for 24 hours.
Automatic Language: Common. Bonus Languages: Any (other than secret languages, such as Druidic). Elans’ past lives expose them to wide ranges of language.
Favored Class: Psion.
Level Adjustment: +0.

Unlike humanoids, aberrations do not swap his weapon proficiency, and note that the elan description explicitly removes the darkvision trait that aberrations normally have, but not the simple weapon proficiency.

This mean that almost every non-humanoid playable race receives some sort of free weapon proficiency?

Namfuak
2013-08-09, 11:39 PM
Some Racial Hit Dice give weapon proficiencies, but only to characters that have at least one racial hit dice. For your example, Elans do not have aberration racial hit dice and thus do not gain aberration weapon proficiencies. For more information, read Ur-Priest's guide to monsters:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207928

EDIT: On second reading, I don't think I'm right. The guide may still be of use though.

Andezzar
2013-08-10, 04:07 AM
Traits from a certain type or subtype do not require racial HD, they require the right type or subtype. Yes, aasimar and tieflings are proficient with all martial weapons, just like any other outsider. Don't take the lesser versions though, if you want that, because with the outsider type you lose the proficiency.

Khedrac
2013-08-10, 07:36 AM
Does that mean that High Elves lose their longbow and sword proficiencies when they take a class?

Andezzar
2013-08-10, 07:51 AM
Does that mean that High Elves lose their longbow and sword proficiencies when they take a class?Features, not traits:

Humanoids with 1 Hit Die exchange the features of their humanoid Hit Die for the class features of a PC or NPC class. Humanoids of this sort are presented as 1st-level warriors, which means that they have average combat ability and poor saving throws.

Humanoids with more than 1 Hit Die are the only humanoids who make use of the features of the humanoid type.
Features

A humanoid has the following features (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).
8-sided Hit Dice, or by character class.
Base attack bonus equal to ¾ total Hit Dice (as cleric).
Good Reflex saves (usually; a humanoid’s good save varies).
Skill points equal to (2 + Int modifier, minimum 1) per Hit Die, with quadruple skill points for the first Hit Die, or by character class.

Traits

A humanoid possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).
Proficient with all simple weapons, or by character class.
Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, or by character class. If a humanoid does not have a class and wears armor, it is proficient with that type of armor and all lighter types. Humanoids not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Humanoids are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.
Humanoids breathe, eat, and sleep.



Elf Traits (Ex)

Elves possess the following racial traits.
+2 Dexterity, -2 Constitution.
Medium size.
An elf’s base land speed is 30 feet.
Immunity to sleep spells and effects, and a +2 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells or effects. (Not reflected in the saving throw modifiers given here.)
Low-light vision.
Weapon Proficiency: Elves are automatically proficient with the longsword, rapier, longbow, composite longbow, shortbow, and composite shortbow.
+2 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks. An elf who merely passes within 5 feet of a secret or concealed door is entitled to a Search check to notice it as if she were actively looking for it.
Automatic Languages: Common, Elven. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Gnoll, Gnome, Goblin, Orc, Sylvan.
Favored Class: Wizard.

It would be interesting, if humanoids also lost their traits upon selecting a class: They would no longer need to eat sleep or breathe.

Khedrac
2013-08-10, 11:54 AM
Features, not traits
Thanks Andezzar, I knew there had to be a simple reason why not, but I could not see it.

re_e
2013-08-10, 04:26 PM
Then all aberrations*, dragons*, elementals*, fey, monstrous humanoids, undead, and shapechangers are naturally proficient with simple weapons.
*Only if generally humanoid in form

All giants and outsiders are naturally proficient with simple and martial weapons.

While animals, constructs, magical beasts, oozes, plants and vermin are only proficient with natural weapons.

Andezzar
2013-08-10, 05:27 PM
Correct, unless an individual entry says otherwise.

TuggyNE
2013-08-10, 07:26 PM
This mean that almost every non-humanoid playable race receives some sort of free weapon proficiency?

Yes.


Then all aberrations*, dragons*, elementals*, feys, monstrous humanoids, undeads, and shapechangers are naturally proficient with simple weapons.
*Only if generally humanoid in form

All giants and outsiders are naturally proficient with simple and martial weapons.

While animals, constructs, magical beasts, oozes, plants and vermins are only proficient with natural weapons.

Not sure why this is so surprising; the monsters have to get proficiencies from somewhere, and it's not going to be classes most of the time, even if they're playable. Especially if they have more than one RHD, since then they won't be played starting with any class levels at all.

(Also, "undead", "vermin" and "fey", like "sheep", are pluralized as "undead"/"vermin"/"fey".)

re_e
2013-08-10, 09:52 PM
Note that some spells and prestige classes changes a creature type, so a creature can lose/gain weapon proficiency because of these changes.


(Also, "undead", "vermin" and "fey", like "sheep", are pluralized as "undead"/"vermin"/"fey".)
Thanks, English is not my best language.

Katie Boundary
2018-12-01, 08:32 PM
The answer to this question can be found in the Glossary section of the Monster Manual.

Every creature type is associated with a set of features and a set of traits. Example:


Features: An outsider has the following features.
—8-sided Hit Dice.
—Base attack bonus equal to total Hit Dice (as fighter).
—Good Fortitude, Reflex, and Will saves.
—Skill points equal to (8 + Int modifier, minimum 1) per Hit
Die, with quadruple skill points for the first Hit Die.

Traits: An outsider possesses the following traits (unless otherwise
noted in a creature’s entry).
—Darkvision out to 60 feet.
—Unlike most other living creatures, an outsider does not have
a dual nature—its soul and body form one unit. When an outsider
is slain, no soul is set loose. Spells that restore souls to their bodies,
such as raise dead, reincarnate, and resurrection, don’t work on an outsider.
It takes a different magical effect, such as limited wish, wish,
miracle, or true resurrection to restore it to life. An outsider with the
native subtype (see page 312) can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected
just as other living creatures can be.
—Proficient with all simple and martial weapons and any
weapons mentioned in its entry.
—Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or
heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Outsiders
not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with
armor. Outsiders are proficient with shields if they are proficient
with any form of armor.
—Outsiders breathe, but do not need to eat or sleep (although
they can do so if they wish). Native outsiders breathe, eat, and sleep

The features are tied to racial hit dice. This means that if you have no racial hit dice, then you do not get the features.

The traits, however, are tied directly to the creature type. This means that you get them whether you have racial hit dice or not.

Weapon proficiency is a trait, not a feature. Therefore, you always get it.