Dark Heresy-> Rogue Trader conversions?

[shadow_archmagi]

So, I'm playing an explorator in an upcoming game, and I'm interested in using the content in The Lathe Worlds.

With regard to equipment, it's unclear how rare things should be because DH wasn't overly concerned with rarity. Some things just say "Techpriest Only" which doesn't help for Acquisition Check calculations.


With regard to powers:

On one hand, they're intended for mid to high level DH characters, and in theory, RT characters start as mid-level DH characters. We have 5000 XP, after all, and a DH character with that much would be rank 5, so my first glance suggests that most of the Lathe Worlds abilities should be available to Explorators pretty much from the get-go.


On the other hand, the talents that they both have in common, Explorators don't get until much later. An explorator has to be rank 3 to get luminen shock (Which is effectively, something like, what, Rank 9 in DH terms?). This suggests that maybe the "You have to be rank 7 to take this" should just be taken at face value, since a Rank 7 Explorator is learning similar powers to a Rank 7 Techpriest.


Also, I'd appreciate any general advice on playing an Explorator. Useful biotics, tools, talents, etc.

[Dead_Jester]

Ok, first of all, despite using the same system and similar progression, cross-line isn't really great. DH careers get skills much "earlier" (due to the bonus 5000 xp) and actually pay less for identical skills so you'll probably have to also increase the xp cost. You also won't be able to have direct parallels between levels; your best bet is looking at what is available at a certain level in RT compared to DH.

Considering the Lathe Worlds abilities, look at the shared Tech-Priest talents (luminen shock, ferric lure and maglev grace) which are respectively for Tech-Priests rank 2,4,5 are available at Explorator rank 2, for twice the xp cost. Maglev Transcendence and Ferric Summons are available at Tech-Priest rank 7, but Explorator rank 3 and 4, again for 500 rather than 200 xp.

Considering this, Luminen Shield should be a 500 xp advance at rank 2, Luminen Flare should be 500 at rank 4 or 5 (Explorators only get Luminen Blast, the prerequisite, at rank 4). Luminen Barrier should be 500 xp at rank 4.

In regards to the equipment in the Lathe Worlds, I'd base it on similar items already in the game. In the Lathe Worlds, the Omnissian Rod should be Near Unique in the Lathe System, Unique elsewhere. In the cybernetics department, the Mechadendrite stabilizers should be Very Rare, like all Mechadendrites, Enhanced Potentia Coils and the jump pack should be Near Unique, the Servo Harness should be Extremely Rare.

As for playing an explorator, many of the same things that apply to Tech-Priest also apply, so I'll direct you to this thread Sell me on Tech-Priests (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=294401) for basic information. Essentially, you can either play the really smart mechanic/medic with a smattering of lores, or the "mobile" platform of death, raining the Omnissiah's vengeance on the puny walking mortals. The latter can still get some nice utility, but he'll need to share his xp. They are both a lot of fun, although the latter is pretty much only suited for combat-heavy games, and he does not perform as well in space combat unless you let him board the enemy ship.

For the implants, MIU and MIU weapon interface (preferably with a Melta Gun strapped to it) are both great. When you can afford it, Good Quality Cortex Implants are also great (UI 2 is really good). The rest really depend on your build, but if your going for the death machine, Blackbone Bracing and Vitae Supplement save you xp, while Good Quality Subskin Muscle and Subskin Armour make you into an even scarier machine of death.

[shadow_archmagi]

I know I've seen threads in other places where Unnatural Intelligence is criticized for not actually being that great, because very few things are dependent on your intelligence bonus.

My plan for this guy is to be a little bit of both archetypes you mentioned: a ruthless engineer-boss whose syndicate sells customized weapons on the black market (saving, naturally, his best designs for himself.) Speaking of which, I picked the Hand of War background option, but I'm not actually sure what free weapons talent to pick up. Heavy Weapons (Universal) seems like the obvious choice, but I wonder if there's not something cleverer.

[Dead_Jester]

Heavy Weapons (Universal) seems like the obvious choice, but I wonder if there's not something cleverer.

From my experience, no, Heavy Weapons (Universal) is the bestest friend there is. There is nothing that can beat the joy of being a flying machine of death with an inferno pistol ballistic mechadendrite, a meltagun MIU and an autocannon (or other heavy weapon du jour) in your hands. Don't let the others try to convince you otherwise; if the Omnissiah had willed it another way, it would not have given you the right to simultaneously use so much firepower in the first place. The Arch-Militant might get jealous of your firepower, but don't worry, that's what he gets for being a foolish mortal instead of following the will of the Omnissiah.

And UI is useful for the +2 DoS on things like Logic and, if necessary, opposed Tech-Use, Medicae and lore tests. It's not that important compared to MIU's, but it can still be useful. Plus, with the Rite of Pure Though and a Cortex Implant, you are a machine. The Flesh is Weak only makes it more evident.

[shadow_archmagi]

I'm actually considering making my first order of business to get a twin-linked integrated (integration gives it the Storm quality) so that I can begin battles with a volley of grenades.

It's also worth noting that per the rules (Clarified in Errata) you can only take one Attack action per turn, so having eight guns only allows for variety.

[Dead_Jester]

It's also worth noting that per the rules (Clarified in Errata) you can only take one Attack action per turn, so having eight guns only allows for variety.

But MIU weapons and mechadendrite don't care about puny attack limits :smallbiggrin: (that's why you signed up with the Omnissiah, rather than that boring dead guy, and why the Arch-Militant will be jealous) :

MIU "This system allows user to fire an additional ranged weapon as a Free Action—using his full Ballistic Skill—no matter what other actions he may be taking at the time"

Mechadendrite "The owner may use this mechadendrite as his Reaction for the Round or as a Half-Action Attack on his own turn, but it can only be fired once per Round."

So, in essence, you have your attack with the biggest gun you can find (preferably full-auto point blank for good measure), a free attack with a basic weapon of your choice, and can use your reaction to make another attack with a pistol of your choice (your agility will probably be around 20, no point trying to use that reaction to dodge).

[Asmodai]

I've ran a year's worth Rogue Trader with a Dark Heresy Scum character. The biggest issue is that the Scum character will be vastly more powerful then the other characters for the simple reason that he gets way more skills and talents then the RT PC's.

My personal solution was to charge the DH character 30-50% extra in all XP expenses. That pretty much evened out the whole thing.

[Dead_Jester]

I've ran a year's worth Rogue Trader with a Dark Heresy Scum character. The biggest issue is that the Scum character will be vastly more powerful then the other characters for the simple reason that he gets way more skills and talents then the RT PC's.

My personal solution was to charge the DH character 30-50% extra in all XP expenses. That pretty much evened out the whole thing.

Honestly, cross line play never really plays out well; it's better (and in the end simpler) to convert to the closest class and then add, remove or modify a few things than to try and plug in things from a line that operates at another power and, more importantly, xp scale. If your Scum is good enough to run with the Big Guys, than he's good enough to be a Senechal or Void Master, possibly with a few skills and talents swapped with each other and/or the Arch-Militant.

[shadow_archmagi]

Any advice on kicking Tech Use and Armorer up a pile of notches? It'd be nice to be confident when I tell the group I can improve their armor myself.

[LordBlades]

But MIU weapons and mechadendrite don't care about puny attack limits :smallbiggrin: (that's why you signed up with the Omnissiah, rather than that boring dead guy, and why the Arch-Militant will be jealous) :

MIU "This system allows user to fire an additional ranged weapon as a Free Action—using his full Ballistic Skill—no matter what other actions he may be taking at the time"

Mechadendrite "The owner may use this mechadendrite as his Reaction for the Round or as a Half-Action Attack on his own turn, but it can only be fired once per Round."

So, in essence, you have your attack with the biggest gun you can find (preferably full-auto point blank for good measure), a free attack with a basic weapon of your choice, and can use your reaction to make another attack with a pistol of your choice (your agility will probably be around 20, no point trying to use that reaction to dodge).
It's been errata-ed, for MIU at least. You're still subject to the 1 attack per turn limit and with MIU you can only perform standard atracks, so no semi-auto or full auto.

Mechandrite hasn't been touched by the errata per se, but it has nothing in the description that allows it to override the 'one action with the Attack subtype per round' rule.

[Dead_Jester]

Mechandrite hasn't been touched by the errata per se, but it has nothing in the description that allows it to override the 'one action with the Attack subtype per round' rule.

In the text for the Balistic Mechadendrite, I believe the distinction between using it as an attack action, and as a reaction, clearly indicates that the later is distinct from the former, as the later is not an attack action, but rather a reaction involving an attack, similarly to d&d 3e opportunity attacks. Also, looking at the next piece of Errata right after the one clearing up MIU (thank you for pointing it out, that'll teach me for not keeping up with the errata updates), it says that an Explorer can do an unlimited amount of attacks in other people's turns as long as you have the specific triggering actions (like Reactions for Parry and Counter-Attack, or, in this case, for shooting the Mechadendrite); as such, even if it where illegal to fire it during your turn (which I still feel is not the case due to it being a Reaction), you could simply fire it immediately after your turn, before anyone else had a chance to act.

[Destro_Yersul]

It's been errata-ed, for MIU at least. You're still subject to the 1 attack per turn limit and with MIU you can only perform standard atracks, so no semi-auto or full auto.

Mechandrite hasn't been touched by the errata per se, but it has nothing in the description that allows it to override the 'one action with the Attack subtype per round' rule.

It does, actually.

Errata: "A character may not perform more than one of the following during his turn: an action with the "Attack" subtype, using (not sustaining) a Psychic Technique, or using a Navigator Power."

Rogue Trader Core Book: "A character receives one Reaction each Round, which may only be used when it is not his turn."

Emphasis mine. The MIU, as a free action, still has to happen during your turn, and is thus subject to the rule. Reactions happen when it is NOT your turn, and are therefore exempt.

[LordBlades]

It does, actually.

Errata: "A character may not perform more than one of the following during his turn: an action with the "Attack" subtype, using (not sustaining) a Psychic Technique, or using a Navigator Power."

Rogue Trader Core Book: "A character receives one Reaction each Round, which may only be used when it is not his turn."

Emphasis mine. The MIU, as a free action, still has to happen during your turn, and is thus subject to the rule. Reactions happen when it is NOT your turn, and are therefore exempt.

Yeah, that makes sense. Thanks for pointing it out.

[shadow_archmagi]

So far I've got:

Laboratorium Ship Component: +20
Multitool: +10
MIU????: +10 (It seems unlikely that crafting would be a situation where an MIU would add +10)

[Destro_Yersul]

Yeah, that makes sense. Thanks for pointing it out.

Welcome. It's also worth pointing out that the MIU could still be worth it, since it's a free action. You can only use it once per round, but you CAN use it while doing other, non-attack things. Like running. Or trying to open a door with a Security check.

[Dead_Jester]

Welcome. It's also worth pointing out that the MIU could still be worth it, since it's a free action. You can only use it once per round, but you CAN use it while doing other, non-attack things. Like running. Or trying to open a door with a Security check.

Or, theoretically at least, take a full action to aim. Which, if you somehow don't like melta doom, could make using an accurate weapon worthwhile, as you can still move while sniping with one.

As for maximizing Trade:Armourer and an MIU, unless you are optimizing the plasma capacitor on a Titan's plasma blastgun, I don't think their will be a neuro-interface with which to jack in.

[Destro_Yersul]

Or, theoretically at least, take a full action to aim. Which, if you somehow don't like melta doom, could make using an accurate weapon worthwhile, as you can still move while sniping with one.

As for maximizing Trade:Armourer and an MIU, unless you are optimizing the plasma capacitor on a Titan's plasma blastgun, I don't think their will be a neuro-interface with which to jack in.

No theoretically about it, that would work. Half move and half aim would, too. There aren't a huge number of accurate weapons that are worth using over a melta, though.

[shadow_archmagi]

No theoretically about it, that would work. Half move and half aim would, too. There aren't a huge number of accurate weapons that are worth using over a melta, though.

Well, what about the Accurate melta? Thermal Lance, I believe it was?

[Destro_Yersul]

Those are a Heavy weapon. I think you can still mount them, but you don't get auto-stabilised or anything so you would still have to brace. Plus, barring shenanigans, you can't pick a heavy weapon training on an Explorator until rank 5.

[shadow_archmagi]

Those are a Heavy weapon. I think you can still mount them, but you don't get auto-stabilised or anything so you would still have to brace. Plus, barring shenanigans, you can't pick a heavy weapon training on an Explorator until rank 5.

What if you had the Backbone Bracing implant and picked up the proficency from Hand of War (Is there a better Trials and Travails? Access to heavy weapons seems fantastic)

[Destro_Yersul]

Well, if you're going to pick up a Heavy Weapon proficiency from Hand of War, I posit that starting out with Destro's Patented Nonsense Cannon is way funnier. Plasma cannon with starflare vents and calamity vents. And then you fire your new Heavy Plasma Flamer on Maximal mode.

But yes, if that's the route you took I think it's possible to put a thermal lance on your shoulder.