Where to go with my 3.5 Dread Necro?

[Chester]

So, here's where I currently reside with my Dread Necro. DM is willing to let me revamp feats / skills in pursuit of prestige. Originally going with Ur Priest, but . . . . meh. I kind of like Pale Master, but as I'm new to 3.5, I don't know much about what else there is. I've read K's Revised Necromancer Handbook, but I'm still not certain where to take this.

Anyway, here's what he looks like (DM allowed 41 point buy):
STR 9
DEX 16
CON 10
INT 14
WIS 14
CHA 18

FEATS: Tomb-Tainted Soul, Weapon Finesse, Spell Focus (Evil)

I was building towards Ur Priest, but I'm not necessarily interested.

Basically, I want my character to command undead minions. I want to strike fear into the hearts of my enemies. I've never played an evil character before, and I'm having fun with it so far!

What are your thoughts on the prestige classes that best suit Dread Necro? Is Pale Master that good?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Pale Master is good, once you hit level 9 and you can pick a Cohort. Pick a Bard with DFI optimization and the feat Requiem to permit him to affect all of your undead minions.

His build should eventually be Bard4/Warblade2/War Chanter 10. Song of Legion gives all of your allies BAB = HD. So now your 1 HD skeletons? Have a BAB of 16. Including iterative attacks. Oh, and you should be able to squeeze something like a +12 attack bonus out of him as well, and +12d6 Sonic damage per attack.

Have fun with your new Legion of Doom.

Of course, until you hit Pale Master 9, the class sucks. But hey, that's the price you pay for late-blooming builds.

Also, go into Pale Master before level 8, then go BACK to Dread Necro and pick up Advanced Learning for Skeletal Champion. Basically you create an undead with class levels. Congratulations on having Uberchargers with aforementioned bonuses. Have a nice day.

[Norin]

Look into Dread Witch form Heroes of Horror if you want focus on striking fear into the hearts of your enemies. :smallamused:

[Chester]

Look into Dread Witch form Heroes of Horror if you want focus on striking fear into the hearts of your enemies. :smallamused:

Yeah, this is where I'm headed. Flavor-wise, it fits our campaign well. Thanks!

[The Viscount]

Of course if you are taking only 8 levels of Dread Necro you must deal with being stuck at that number of undead under your control.

[Chester]

Of course if you are taking only 8 levels of Dread Necro you must deal with being stuck at that number of undead under your control.

I'll come back to Dread Necro eventually . . . I just want the fear effects!

[The Viscount]

Have you spoken with your DM about a duration for DN's fear aura?

[Chester]

Have you spoken with your DM about a duration for DN's fear aura?

Not quite, but he'll be flexible.

In fact, he's letting me rearrange the character at level 3 just so I can alter the route I'm taking.

I wouldn't be surprised if he allows me to choose a stitched-flesh familiar without the feat!

[The Viscount]

In that case, I believe 1 round/class level is the commonly agreed on duration, though I have heard of the opponent being shaken as long as they are withing 5 feet. I would recommend the former.

Stitched flesh familiar is pretty fun, since you don't actually sacrifice any familiar abilities as a dread necro. Have you considered what familiar you'll be taking?

[Chester]

In that case, I believe 1 round/class level is the commonly agreed on duration, though I have heard of the opponent being shaken as long as they are withing 5 feet. I would recommend the former.

Stitched flesh familiar is pretty fun, since you don't actually sacrifice any familiar abilities as a dread necro. Have you considered what familiar you'll be taking?

If I don't take a stitched-flesh, I'm going with a quasit. If I do take stitched-flesh, I want a wolf. :)

[The Viscount]

How are you nabbing the wolf, and why don't you want a stitched flesh quasit? It doesn't actually lose anything.

[Melcar]

So, here's where I currently reside with my Dread Necro. DM is willing to let me revamp feats / skills in pursuit of prestige. Originally going with Ur Priest, but . . . . meh. I kind of like Pale Master, but as I'm new to 3.5, I don't know much about what else there is. I've read K's Revised Necromancer Handbook, but I'm still not certain where to take this.

Anyway, here's what he looks like (DM allowed 41 point buy):
STR 9
DEX 16
CON 10
INT 14
WIS 14
CHA 18

FEATS: Tomb-Tainted Soul, Weapon Finesse, Spell Focus (Evil)

I was building towards Ur Priest, but I'm not necessarily interested.

Basically, I want my character to command undead minions. I want to strike fear into the hearts of my enemies. I've never played an evil character before, and I'm having fun with it so far!

What are your thoughts on the prestige classes that best suit Dread Necro? Is Pale Master that good?

Personally, I would go full 20 level and become lich with this character. Get some of the feats from libris mortis, that build on your undead! Thats how I would do it. If you play in FR you become a very powerful lich indeed!

[JungleChicken]

I have to agree. I like the DN from 1-20. The flavor is just too good. Plus if you want to become undead you have a built in 100% success rate to become a lich

[Deophaun]

If I don't take a stitched-flesh, I'm going with a quasit. If I do take stitched-flesh, I want a wolf. :)
But the quasit can turn into a wolf...

[Chester]

Personally, I would go full 20 level and become lich with this character. Get some of the feats from libris mortis, that build on your undead! Thats how I would do it. If you play in FR you become a very powerful lich indeed!


I have to agree. I like the DN from 1-20. The flavor is just too good. Plus if you want to become undead you have a built in 100% success rate to become a lich

I've thought of that....only the plan is to play the characters until they get too big, then reboot with new characters. It would be something like 50 years in the future, and my character is an NPC villain.

We'll see. The plan is go Dread Witch, but I have a few levels to think on that. :smallsmile:

[Venger]

Pale Master is good, once you hit level 9 and you can pick a Cohort. Pick a Bard with DFI optimization and the feat Requiem to permit him to affect all of your undead minions.

His build should eventually be Bard4/Warblade2/War Chanter 10. Song of Legion gives all of your allies BAB = HD. So now your 1 HD skeletons? Have a BAB of 16. Including iterative attacks. Oh, and you should be able to squeeze something like a +12 attack bonus out of him as well, and +12d6 Sonic damage per attack.

Have fun with your new Legion of Doom.

Of course, until you hit Pale Master 9, the class sucks. But hey, that's the price you pay for late-blooming builds.

Also, go into Pale Master before level 8, then go BACK to Dread Necro and pick up Advanced Learning for Skeletal Champion. Basically you create an undead with class levels. Congratulations on having Uberchargers with aforementioned bonuses. Have a nice day.

pale master is kind of a terrible class, but if you can't find a way to win D&D with its 7th level tough as bone ability that gives (among other things) immunity to nonlethal damage, you're just not trying.

plus the lulz factor of, as k puts it "punching people in the face so hard they join your undead army for free" is hard to beat.

as the viscount (the resident dread necromancer expert) says, beware of shooting yourself in the foot regarding your undead pool. undead mastery, due to poor proofreading, provides 4+cha per class level instead of the (likely intended) 4+ cha per caster level, so if you leave DN after 8, your pool will stop scaling. just something t be aware of, especially if you wanted to minionmance (which it kind of sounds like you do)

[Verditude]

Rainbow Servant is an oft-trotted-out option (assuming text trumps table and you don't lose any caster levels.) DN 8/RS 10 gets you spontaneous casting off the entire Cleric list, due to how DNs cast spells. Enjoy being versatility incarnate.

Also, there's a debate on whether +1 caster level classes advance Advanced Learning, since it's a spell learning mechanism that depends on level. I prefer to rule it does.

[nickia]

Next time you want to play a necromancer you should start with the Death Master base class from the Dragon Magazine Compendium. Pure necromancy from level 1-20!

Death Master
by ten Lakojka, DRAGON #76, August 1983

GAME RULE INFORMATION
Death masters have the following game statistics.
Abilities: Intelligence determines the potency and number of a death master's spells. Charisma is a key attribute in his ability to rebuke undead and force them into service.
Alignment: Any evil.
Hit Die: d8.

CLASS SKILLS
The death master's class skills (and the key ability
for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int),
Decipher Script (Int), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha),
Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int),
Knowledge (the planes) (Int), Profession (Wis), and
Spellcraft (Int).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Int modifier) x 4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier.

CLASS FEATURES
All of the following are class features of the death master.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A death master is
proficient with the club, crossbow (light and heavy),
dagger, scimitar, scythe, sickle, and staff. Death masters
are proficient with light armor but not with shields of
any type.
Bonus Language: The death master gains Abyssal as a
bonus language. All of his spells, along with most death
master tomes and manuals, appear in that tongue.
Rebuke Undead: As an emissary of Orcus, a death
master has the power to compel undead to serve him.
He channels Orcus's fell energy and uses it to turn
the living dead into his pawns. The death master can
attempt to rebuke undead a number of times per day
equal to 3 + his Charisma modifier. A death master
with 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (religion) gains a +2
bonus on rebuking checks against undead.
Spells: The death master's exhaustive study of
necromantic magic grants him the ability to use arcane
spells. The death master can cast the spells given on the
death master spells list. He must choose and prepare
his spells ahead of time, as a wizard.
To learn, prepare, or cast a spell, a death master must
have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell's
level. The DC for a saving throw against the death master's
spells equals 10 + the spell's level + the death master's
Intelligence modifier. The death master receives bonus
spells for having a high Intelligence score.
Similar to a wizard, the death master keeps a series
of spellbooks in which he scribes the formulas for his
spells. He must choose and prepare his spells by getting
a good night's sleep and studying his books for 1 hour.
While studying, the death master chooses the spells he
wants to prepare.
The death master's spells have a special material
component that makes them easier to cast in armor.
If the death master uses a vial of blood as a material
component he can cast the spell without somatic
components and thereby ignore the spell failure chance
for casting in armor. This blood must come from an
intelligent creature (Intelligence 3 or higher) that the
death master sacrificed to Orcus. The death master can
extract 8 vials from a Medium creature. Double this
for each size category above Medium and halve it, to a
minimum of 1, for each category below. This extracted
blood remains viable for one day, but a gentle repose spell
prolongs this time.
Spellbooks: The deathmaster keeps a set of unholy
tomes that record the blasphemous, arcane methods
for his spells. His spellbooks function in all ways as a
wizard's spellbooks, including size, capacity, and cost to
add spells.
Undead Minion: A death master gains the services
of an undead creature bestowed unto him by Orcus,
typically a wolf skeleton or a zombie troglodyte. With
your DM's permission you can gain the services of a
different skeleton or zombie creature with a total, posttemplate
CR of 1 or lower.
The death master's minion gains new abilities as he
gains levels. A minion's abilities depend on the death
master's total level in this class. The death master gains
this minion from the great undead legions of Orcus.
It obeys his commands without fail, and even takes
suicidal actions. The minion is as much a spy for Orcus
as a servant for the death master. If destroyed, a new
minion appears 24 hours later. The death master can
also choose to dismiss his minion to gain a new one. In
this case, the death master must wait 24 hours for the
new minion to appear.
A death master can choose to gain the services of a more
powerful undead servitor at higher levels. Subtract the
level modifier listed for a minion from the death master's
level to determine the abilities and bonuses it gains. For
example, an nth-level death master with a ghast minion
grants it benefits as a 2nd-level death master.
Undead Minion Basics: Use the base statistics for a
creature of the minion's kind, as given in the Monster
Manual, but make the following changes.
Bonus Hit Dice: The undead minion gains the listed
bonus hit dice. Advance its saving throws, base attack
bonus, and so forth as per the Monster Manual It does
not increase in size due to these bonus HD.
Str/Dex Bonus: The minion gains the listed bonus to
both its Strength and Dexterity scores.
Special Abilities: As the death master gains levels, his
undead minion gains a number of special abilities.
Turn Resistance +4: The undead minion gains this
turn resistance in addition to any turn resistance it
normally gains.
Unholy Might: Once per day as a standard action, the
death master can channel unholy energy into his minion
to allow it to fight with increased vigor. The death master
must touch the minion to imbue it with this power. The
minion gains a +4 bonus to Strength and a +2 bonus on
all saves for a number of rounds equal to 5 + the death
masters Wisdom modifier. If the minion is a zombie, it
loses the single actions only drawback for the duration
of this ability.
Persistent Corruption: The death master of this level is
such a favored apostle of Orcus that the lord of undead
returns a destroyed minion to him shortly after its
destruction. The death master must only wait 1 hour
for a replacement undead minion if his is destroyed.
He must still wait 24 hours for a replacement undead
minion if he releases his current one.
Link of the Grave: Once per day as a free action, the death
master can cast a shield other spell that links him to his minion.
This spell has one critical difference from its normal form.
Treat the death master as the spell's target and the minion as
the caster. Thus, if the death master suffers damage he shares
the total with his minion, but not vice versa.
Relentless Undead: The death master's minion gains
fast healing 3.
DEATH MASTER SPELLS
0-LEVEL DEATH MASTER SPELLS (CANTRIPS)
Arcane Mark
Dancing Lights
Daze:
Detect Poison:
Disrupt Undead:
Flare:
Ghost Sound:
Inflict Minor Wounds:
Light:
Mage Hand:
Mending:
Prestidigitation:
Ray of Frost:
Read Magic:
Resistance:
Touch of Fatigue:
Virtue:
1ST-LEVEL DEATH MASTER SPELLS
Alarm:
Bane:
Cause Fear:
Chill Touch:
Command:
Comprehend Languages:
Curse Water:
Deathwatch:
Detect Chaos/Evil/Good/Law:
Detect Undead:
Doom:
Entropic Shield:
Expeditious Retreat:
Grease:
Hide from Undead:
Identify:
Inflict Light Wounds:
Magic Fang:
Magic Stone:
Magic Weapon:
Obscuring Mist:
Protection from Good:
Ray of Enfeeblement:
Sanctuary:
Shield:
Shocking Grasp:
Unseen Servant:
2ND-LEVEL DEATH MASTER SPELLS
Align Weapon:
Alter Self:
Animate Dead:
Blindness/Deafness:
Chill Metal:
Command Undead:
Darkness:
Darkvision:
Daze Monster:
Death Knell:
Desecrate:
Detect Thoughts:
False Life:
Fog Cloud:
Gentle Repose:
Ghoul Touch:
Tasha's Hideous Laughter:
Hold Person:
Inflict Moderate Wounds:
Locate Object:
Make Whole:
Misdirection:
Resist Energy:
Restoration, Lesser:
Scare:
See Invisibility:
Shatter:
Silence:
Soften Earth and Stone:
Spectral Hand:
Spider Climb:
Summon Swarm:
Touch of Idiocy:
Undetectable Alignment:
Web:
3RD LEVEL DEATH MASTER SPELLS
Arcane Sight:
Bestow Curse:
Contagion:
Deep Slumber:
Deeper Darkness:
Diminish Plants:
Dispel Magic:
Gaseous Form:
Halt Undead:
Inflict Serious Wounds:
Magic Circle against Good:
Magic Fang, Greater:
Meld into Stone:
Phantom Steed:
Poison:
Protection from Energy:
Ray of Exhaustion:
Remove Curse:
Slow:
Speak with Dead:
Stinking Cloud:
Stone Shape:
Vampiric Touch:
Wind Wall:
4TH-LEVEL DEATH MASTER SPELLS
Arcane Eye:
Death Ward:
Detect Scrying:
Dimensional Anchor:
Enervation:
Evard's Black Tentacles:
Fear:
Giant Vermin:
Ice Storm:
Inflict Critical Wounds:
Phantasmal Killer:
Scrying:
Solid Fog:
Stoneskin:
Tongues:
Wall of Ice:
5TH-LEVEL DEATH MASTER SPELLS
Baleful Polymorph:
Blight:
Cloudkill:
Command, Greater:
Cone of Cold:
Create Undead:
Dispel Good:
Dominate Person:
Hold Monster:
Inflict Light Wounds, Mass:
Insect Plague:
Magic Jar:
Nightmare:
Slay Living:
Symbol of Pain:
Unhallow Might:
Wall of Stone:
Waves of Fatigue:
6TH-LEVEL DEATH MASTER SPELLS
Acid Fog:
Antilife Shell:
Blade Barrier:
Circle of Death:
Control Undead:
under your command.
Dispel Magic, Greater:
Eyebite:
Harm:
Inflict Moderate Wounds, Mass:
Move Earth:
Shadow Walk:
Symbol of Fear Undeath to Death:
Word of Recall:

etc. etc.


Apsect of the Dead (Su): At 15th level, the death
master has proven himself as a mighty servant of Orcus.
As a reward, the lord of undead grants him several
of the defenses and abilities of the living dead. The
death master gains darkvision with a range of 60 feet,
immunity to all mind-affecting effects, and immunity
against poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease,
and death effects.
Lichdom: At 20th level, the death master gains the
lich template. Having proved himself as one of Orcus's
most treasured followers, the death master attains the
mantle of undeath. Even nonhumanoid death masters
gain this template, although usually they are ineligible
for it. Already undead death masters gain the lich's
benefits listed under armor class, special attacks, turn
resistance, damage reduction, abilities, and skills. These
granted abilities stack with any the undead death master
already possessed.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

pale master is kind of a terrible class, but if you can't find a way to win D&D with its 7th level tough as bone ability that gives (among other things) immunity to nonlethal damage, you're just not trying.

plus the lulz factor of, as k puts it "punching people in the face so hard they join your undead army for free" is hard to beat.I think you may possibly be missing my point...


as the viscount (the resident dread necromancer expert) says, beware of shooting yourself in the foot regarding your undead pool. undead mastery, due to poor proofreading, provides 4+cha per class level instead of the (likely intended) 4+ cha per caster level, so if you leave DN after 8, your pool will stop scaling. just something t be aware of, especially if you wanted to minionmance (which it kind of sounds like you do)

Well, I've done a bit with Dread Necromancers myself, but thanks for trying to be condescending :smalltongue:

I don't think you really get it. I'm talking about every single undead under his control now having a +38/+38/+33/+28/+23 attack bonus with a damage of 1d8+14+14d6 Sonic damage. Each. Times how many hundred HD's? This is damage output on par with Mailman.

Oh, and you can make unlimited undead with your punch as well, which don't count to your HD cap, so your HD cap is really arbitrary at that point.

So, let's go into this again. Pale Master 7... bunch of worthless mooks. Pale Master 9... bunch of cruise missiles. Which one is better now?