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Ultimate_Coffee
2013-08-12, 05:58 AM
Hi GiantITP!
I have looked upon these boards many times, but never posted anything before today. I come to you now seeking advice.

I have been playing DND in many of its forms for 15 years, but I have never had much luck as a DM. (I am generally very unsure of myself and so I change my plans constantly.)

Anyways, our usual DM has decided that he bores of the role and needs to take some time off, (as a player character), to restore his vigor. I have decided to take up the role in his absence, as I have always loved the idea of creating a handcrafted world for my players to tinker in.

The question I have today is, how to start a game?
My general consensus was to start off slow, allowing the players to roleplay their characters and develop a personality for them. However, today I ran across an article that explained that in a new campaign, players do not know their characters yet, and it makes them difficult to roleplay. The article suggested beginning with action so that the characters are forced to make decisions that will define who they are for the course of the game.

This really makes sense to me, but I have never seen it in action... I would really appreciate some insight in to the matter.

Yora
2013-08-12, 06:16 AM
I think the key is to not overdo it. The game will be much more fun for everyone involved if it's a very simple setup without any embelishments and not something fancy that the GM can't really pull off well.

Better to have a simple "please go into the dungeon and kill that 4th level necromancer" quest than some crime investigation or world-saving plot that just won't get off the ground.

I've also started to move away from long campaign arcs, since my groups usually run for only 5 to 8 sessions and I can't really plan for anything that would run longer than that. So I plan ahead for three sessions or so with a short plot that will have a full beginning and resolution at the end. If the group continues after that point, the same PCs can have another adventure based in the same area including some already known NPCs. I think that works out much better in the long run rather than just playing the first 15% of some huge elaborate story.
Unless you have the kind of group that plays as one of their primary hobbies and has regular games ever one or two weeks, serial adventures work out much better than epic campaigns.

Ultimate_Coffee
2013-08-12, 06:29 AM
Thank you for the tips Yora!
I agree that a simplified world, at least for the first few sessions will give the players more time to think about thier characters, rather than having to retain all of the information I am feeding them about my world. I can always develop the world around them as we play.

As for the mini-campaigns, I wholeheartedly agree. I made the decision to avoid lengthy, one main bad guy, type campaigns a long time ago. They rarely reache the climax, and are always so cliche. I find it much more fun to make a lot of mini-campaigns. This can be made more dramatic by explaining in the end that all of these situations are linked by a single source. Then you can end a lengthy campaign with an overreaching villain without the need to draw out the fight for months...

I appreciate the insight. ^_^

Jay R
2013-08-12, 09:57 AM
Get an early fight in. It's something they can do together, and gets them involved in at least one tiny piece of the world.

It should be fairly easy and soon over. In many comic books, the hero captures some non-descript robbers on the first two pages, before the real plot is introduced.

Ultimate_Coffee
2013-08-12, 10:13 AM
Good advice Jay R.
It is important to get the group working together. And I like the comic book reference. I never really thought about it, but the PCs are heroes, so why not take inspiration from the heroes of my youth.

Thanks for the tip.

Yora
2013-08-12, 10:18 AM
I think I'll be doing that for the new game I have comming up. That should get the players over the somewhat confusing "what are we supposed to do? Have we already started or is this still setting the scene" phase.

jedipotter
2013-08-12, 11:02 AM
The article suggested beginning with action so that the characters are forced to make decisions that will define who they are for the course of the game.

This is the way I like to do it.

My classic is to use some bait. Something like a sword of sharpness. Just watch players 'snap' and role play their characters as soon as you dangle something like that in front of them.

Though for a group you might want a more universal item. One of my classics is the flask of healing, drink from it and get a heal, but then you can't drink from it again unless you give it away. Or a +5 anything, that goes down one plus a use/hour if used by the same person.

Though, of course, money and mundane treasures can work too.

Jay R
2013-08-12, 12:11 PM
The PCs don't have to know each other at the start. Whatever the starting emergency is, it can be the tool that brings them together. In a Champions game, I once used the following:

GM (to player 1): While scanning the emergency networks, you hear about a building on fire.

GM (to player 2): As you sit down to enjoy your coffee at the local Starbucks, you hear screams outside.

GM (to player 3): You see black smoke rising a couple of blocks away.

GM (to player 4): You notice that it seems to be getting very warm in here.

But it doesn't have to be that involved. "You hear screams and the sounds of a struggle coming from a nearby alley." The person they save has just lost a McGuffin, or has held on to a map to a McGuffin, or whatever. And you have introduced the Good Guy, the Bad Guys, and the plot in one simple non-boring package, in the first five minutes.

valadil
2013-08-12, 12:17 PM
I agree that it's hard to introduce a character you haven't met yet. Vague and nervous first introductions are a bad time for all involved.

I'm not a big fan of starting 100% en media res either though. A GM pulled that on us once and we hated it. We all had to make decisions with no context or history to inform us of anything.

My preferred way to start games is with individual preludes. Real life has caught up with me, so this isn't something I have time for anymore, but when I did it was fantastic. Basically you run a mini adventure for each player by themselves. It gives the players a chance to feel out their characters while nobody is watching, gives you a chance to get to know the GM role while only one player is watching, and gives each PC a bit of momentum when they arrive at game start. Nothing is worse than "you're in town, what do you do?" But now you can give the players a goal during the prelude, and let that plot carry them into the main game.

Kyberwulf
2013-08-12, 05:11 PM
Start it off in a tavern and explode a bar bawl. There is a reason why that is a cliche. It can force a Player to come up with a personality. Is the character the type to not participate in the brawl. Is he the type to just start killing. The kind of person who would go get the constable, or would he wade in trying to break up the fight.

kyoryu
2013-08-12, 05:46 PM
I'd suggest talking to the players about what the overall game will be "about". Get them on board with that.

That doesn't have to mean that there are no surprises, think of it as the back-of-the-book-cover description. You want to make sure it's a book everyone wants to read.

With that level of buy-in, starting in media res is a good idea, and the general situation should be enough to get people to figure out why they're together. As a GM, assert that they *are* together, and let them figure out why that is.

I've done it that blatantly. "Okay, you're approaching a clearing with a house that you expect bandits to be in. Why are you here, and why are you working together?"

Of course, that was in Fate Core, so players usually start with a bit of a better idea of who their characters are, as well as some starting connections. But stealing some of Fate Core character creation (especially the Phase Trio) may help even outside of Fate.

To clarify, the Phase Trio goes like this:

1) Everyone tells what their first adventure was.
2) Everyone gets a random person assigned to them, and says how they were involved in their first adventure - whether as an ally, someone incidental, or even opposition
3) Repeat step #2 for a different person

This is usually done at the table, aloud, and cooperatively. In Fate Core, you generate aspects from this, but that's not as applicable to D&D. It's a great technique to build character, some level of party cohesion, and even get a little bit of collaborative setting building in there.

Ultimate_Coffee
2013-08-13, 03:33 AM
Wow Kyoryu,
I love that idea. I have never heard of Fate Core before, but the idea of each player being connected to another in at least some way could make for much better group cohesion.
Generally, in our group, we start with player backstory (at least a short description of your physical traits and why you are adventuring), and just ask if the players know eachother and how.
This Phase Trio seems like a great way to create dynamic relationships without getting too complicated or restricting. Even if the players that know eachother are not adventuring together, whey they see eachother there will be some kind of immediate connection.
Thanks for the tip, I think I'm gonna use it!

@Kyberwulf
I like the idea of starting off in a tavern. I know it is a cliche, but not one that my group uses often. I had intended to start in a tavern where all of the players happen to be at this time, whether they know eachother or not is up to them. The game was going to start with a group of Barbarians (really just Warrior class NPCs with a barbarian style attitude) entering the bar and holding the place hostage. Hadn't decided if they were on the run from the guards or just trying to rob everybody there.
This scenario would give the diplomatic players a chance to talk their way out, rogue-types a chance to sneak out and get help or sneak attack, and fighters a chance to well... fight...
It think it will force the players to think on their feet and make some important decisions early on, while at the same time introducing them to eachother. May be even more fun if some of them know eachother from their past... Thanks for the idea Kyoruy!...
What do you guys think? Can this scenario work? Or does it just seem out of place if it won't really link up with the rest of the story? Should I connect the "Barbarians" to some bigger plot? Or just let them be a group of scoundrels to take down.
I'm thinking of using Jay R.'s advice and letting the "Barbarians" be nondescript, minor villains, just used as a plot to introduce the PCs... Comic book style...

Yora
2013-08-13, 05:20 AM
In my games the PCs always know eadh other. When possible, I even want them to come up with a collective backstory for all of them. Usually, player's wont do that, so I do it for them.

kyoryu
2013-08-13, 01:10 PM
Wow Kyoryu,
I love that idea. I have never heard of Fate Core before, but the idea of each player being connected to another in at least some way could make for much better group cohesion.

Yeah, what they call the "phase trio" is one of the few things that hasn't gone through any real adjustment since Spirit of the Century. It works *really well*, and one of the things that I advise people hacking the system to not do is muck with the Phase Trio, at least until they've played the game more.

You can pick up Fate Core for free (or pay-what-you-like, more accurately). I recommend it. It's a great system, and there's a lot of just generally good ideas in there even besides the system.

Gettles
2013-08-13, 07:51 PM
Here is an idea I've had chambered for the next time I DM, feel free to steal it.

Have the PCs start out in some sort of military check point that gets attacked by bandits/orcs/your easily desposible villains of choice. They have to fend off the attack when the guards die. Gets everyone aquatinted, and gives you an early plot hook that can lead off in several different ways.

Ultimate_Coffee
2013-08-20, 04:40 AM
So we finally got around to gaming yesterday and it went really well.
One of my characters decided to play a diviner specialist wizard, so I started off with a precognative dream foreshadowing events to come.
He then woke up in a pub where he remembered stepping in to sit down because he was feeling light headed.

Note: I started with the Phase Trio. Thank you for that kyoryu, it went over really well.

The pub was fairly populated and some of its patrons included the other two PCs. The PCs recognized our diviner from events of their past and sat down with him while he was unoncious so that he wouldn't be taken advantage of. Upon his awakening, they began talking for a bit and agreed to enjoy the festival together (the setting was a large regional harvest festival held in a small town.) Just as they were going to leave the pub, a group of four Ulfen men kicked the door of the pub in. Upon entering the obvious leader of the men announced that everyone there was their hostage, and nobody was leaving until they got what they wanted.

It turned out that the men stole a large sum of money, in the form of a bank note, and were being pursued by the guards. They threatened to kill everyone in the pub if the guards didn't provide them a cart and a clear path out of town.
The PCs were hesitant to act at first, but the DFA started things off with a line of acid and the fight accellerated from there.
The PCs are not really battle oriented, but we are playing Theatre of the Mind style and they did a great job using the obstacles in the bar to their advantage. At one point the Oracle started breaking bottles of alcohol on the bad guys and used spark to light them up! It was great fun.

Anyways, the game went on from there and was a lot of fun. Everybody really got into their characters. Thanks for the tips everybody, it helped me out a lot! ^_^