What exactly would cause an L/N Paladin to fall?

[killem2]

We have an Enforcer Paladin (dragon 310) in our group, it's played by a newer player to d&d, I and the DM helped him find that variant, because we were almost certain, L/G would have been nearly an instant fall after a couple of sessions.

He's actually pleased with the Enforcer variant. It has a lot of dominate person spells/charm spells as its spell list.

Anyway, question being, what pisses off an L/N paladin? We are all either N or G, I don't think any of us are lawful, and in that axis we are either Chaotic or Neutral.

Does a chaotic person, go out of their way to ignore the law, or do they just not find it needed, but will follow it, if it keeps them out of a jam?

I'm trying to help this kid watch for role playing opportunities because he's really excited about the class.

[OldTrees1]

There are those that believe that laws/rules are inherently too rigid to handle this complex world.

There are those that believe that they are above the law.

(These mindsets are to the enforcer as evil is to a LG Paladin)

There are those that break the little laws with little or no thought.

There are those that do not see the need for laws/rules.

(These mindsets are to be guided/enlightened towards LN)

[Andrewmoreton]

Judge Dredd is a LN Paladin, he is the law. (although he has occasional good tendencies)
Where a LG paladin would consider going with the spirit of the law to allow justice and will interpret the law with sympathy LN says the law is the law. You stole those few copper pieces to save your starving children, LG paladin pays the money or finds away to avoid enforcing the law, LN theft is theft thats a public flogging/time in the stocks/jail sentence. (A LE antipaladin would of course jail the bread thief but give an 'on the spot fine' to a rich thief)

In this case he presumably embodies the law as codified by his God which may or may not be the same as that of the local kingdoms.

In general I would consider a LN paladin more likely to fall in a typical group than an LG Paladin.
Breaking the law FALL, associating with know Chaotic FALL (On the basis a LG Paladin would fall for associating with a known evil), knowingly allowing the law to be broken FALL, Lying except where the law allows it FALL, Breaking a lawful agreement FALL
There are no grey areas where good (or evil) can temper the law there is only the LAW and he is the LAW

[Fax Celestis]

There are those that believe that laws/rules are inherently too rigid to handle this complex world.

There are those that believe that they are above the law.

(These mindsets are to the enforcer as evil is to a LG Paladin)

There are those that break the little laws with little or no thought.

There are those that do not see the need for laws/rules.

(These mindsets are to be guided/enlightened towards LN)

this this this this this
Judge Dredd is a LN Paladin, he is the law. (although he has occasional good tendencies)
Where a LG paladin would consider going with the spirit of the law to allow justice and will interpret the law with sympathy LN says the law is the law. You stole those few copper pieces to save your starving children, LG paladin pays the money or finds away to avoid enforcing the law, LN theft is theft thats a public flogging/time in the stocks/jail sentence. (A LE antipaladin would of course jail the bread thief but give an 'on the spot fine' to a rich thief)

In this case he presumably embodies the law as codified by his God which may or may not be the same as that of the local kingdoms.

In general I would consider a LN paladin more likely to fall in a typical group than an LG Paladin.
Breaking the law FALL, associating with know Chaotic FALL (On the basis a LG Paladin would fall for associating with a known evil), knowingly allowing the law to be broken FALL, Lying except where the law allows it FALL, Breaking a lawful agreement FALL
There are no grey areas where good (or evil) can temper the law there is only the LAW and he is the LAW
not this

[NichG]

We have an Enforcer Paladin (dragon 310) in our group, it's played by a newer player to d&d, I and the DM helped him find that variant, because we were almost certain, L/G would have been nearly an instant fall after a couple of sessions.

He's actually pleased with the Enforcer variant. It has a lot of dominate person spells/charm spells as its spell list.

Anyway, question being, what pisses off an L/N paladin? We are all either N or G, I don't think any of us are lawful, and in that axis we are either Chaotic or Neutral.

Does a chaotic person, go out of their way to ignore the law, or do they just not find it needed, but will follow it, if it keeps them out of a jam?


Depends on the chaotic person I'd say, as there are lots of interpretations of a given alignment. You could be chaotic because fundamentally you do not place value in the laws or rules that others create - you do what you do because you feel its the thing to do, not because someone else said so. Such a person could follow laws not because they believe that there is value in them but because they don't want to deal with the consequences of doing otherwise.

You could also be insane-chaotic and just be internally incoherent.

You could believe that chaos, disorder, and other such things are cosmically important, and that an ordered world is stagnant, in which case you'd try to act to bring down legal systems in general.

You could be highly resentful of any sort of perceived authority, and stubbornly avoid following laws or go out of your way to break them to 'stick it to the man'.

You could be highly impulsive, having a tendency to act first and then think, with the outcome that sometimes you break laws because you just didn't think about the law in the heat of the moment.



I'm trying to help this kid watch for role playing opportunities because he's really excited about the class.

I'd say a LN 'Enforcer' definitely carries a strong 'I wil make sure the law is upheld, regardless of what it is' kind of vibe, particularly due to the name of the class though. You could still do a bunch of different things with that, by choosing what kind of law you enforce - is it the law of a particular kingdom, religious law, cosmic laws like 'don't cheat death'?

[TriForce]

chaotic is basically about freedom. a chaotic person would try to "cheat" his way out of a toll, while a lawful character would remind the person in charge of it that he still needs to pay.

when confronted with a set of laws that are obviously evil, even a lawful neutral person would probably want to change them, however, he would probably try to change them in a way that would follow the hierarcy, like for instance, putting a different person in charge by normal lawful means. a chaotic good (and probably a chaotic neutral person) would just help the people in the most direct way possible (scaring away the oppresive guards, overthrowing the king, etc) while the lawful neutral character would find such practices as horrible as a paladin would think about torturing little children