Druid spells under special conditions.

[Ketiara]

Hi Playgrounders.
I've been in a game for about a year now, and our DM has made a set of house rules conserning spell casters and a general rule about actions.

To sum up: full rounds is gone! That means a move and an attack a round, to make melee happy there's a double 20d roll the highest is chosen. And power attack grants x2 with 2h and x3 with a feat.
So all in all that's pretty evend out, and not the point of my request.

Spellcasting has changed aswell. We now have a mana pool and is casting spontaneously from a spell list we choose each day like wis/dru/cle and with the standard amount of spells pr lvl according to our lvl. We don't get more spells or day if we increase our wis/int/cha etc.

Spells that "has" to be cast 99% of the time is gone... Ability/skill modifying spells, haste, heroism, bite of... ;tatoo, Devine...; movement modifiers (not freedom of movement) is all gone. But we do get one ability pt pr lvl and the ability to train skillpts/hp/featsat a cost.



Ok so now that you know my settings It's time I get to the point.
As a level 9 Druid with access to sc and ph for spells, what would you choose for your spontaneous cast spells?

The party serup is a wizard that os trying to be god but is Cut down by the dm (hideous laughter is also banned)
A dwarfen defender, thf.
A cleric/wizard, summons a lot of weak skeletons and wields a whip to dilever touch attacks.
A cleric fighter type, don't know what's up with that, but its evil, and focusing on damage and making the big hammer do more hurt.

[Urpriest]

Spells that "has" to be cast 99% of the time is gone... Ability/skill modifying spells, haste, heroism, bite of... ;tatoo, Devine...; movement modifiers (not freedom of movement) is all gone. But we do get one ability pt pr lvl and the ability to train skillpts/hp/featsat a cost.



Ok so now that you know my settings It's time I get to the point.
As a level 9 Druid with access to sc and ph for spells, what would you choose for your spontaneous cast spells?

The party serup is a wizard that os trying to be god but is Cut down by the dm (hideous laughter is also banned)


Asking what spells to take is kind of pointless when you haven't given us the full banlist. Rather than us telling you spells and you telling us they don't exist, how about you tell us what your actual options are?

Also, how do natural weapons work with this no full attacks rule?

[Ketiara]

Asking what spells to take is kind of pointless when you haven't given us the full banlist. Rather than us telling you spells and you telling us they don't exist, how about you tell us what your actual options are?

Also, how do natural weapons work with this no full attacks rule?

The natural attack and Wild shape attacks work as normal and the multiplyer isnt increased. Multiattack is given free if I choose power attack.

the list of spells that are not allowed:
 Bear’s Endurance (PH 203)
 Bear’s Endurance, Mass (PH 203)
 Bite of the Werebear (SC 28)
 Bite of the Wereboar (SC 28)
 Bite of the Wererat (SC 28)
 Bite of the Weretiger (SC 28)
 Bite of the Werewolf (SC 29)
 Bull’s Strength (PH 207)
 Bull’s Strength, Mass (PH 207)
 Cat’s Grace (PH 208)
 Cat’s Grace, Mass (PH 208)
 Conviction (SC 52)
 Create Magic Tattoo (SC 55)
 Divine Agility (SC 69)
 Divine Insight (SC 70)
 Detect Evil/Good/Chaos/Law (PH 218)
 Eagle’s Splendor (PH 225)
 Eagle’s Splendor, Mass (PH 225)
 Ebon Eyes (SC 77)
 Fist of Stone (SC 94)
 Fox’s Cunning (PH 233)
 Fox’s Cunning, Mass (PH 233)
 Haste (PH 239)
 Inspirational Boost (SC 124)
 Living Undeath (SC 134)
 Longstrider (PH 249)
 Nixie’s Grace (SC 148)
 Owl’s Wisdom (PH 259)
 Owl’s Wisdom, Mass (PH 259)
 Sirine’s Grace (SC 191)
 Stalwart Pact (SC 204)

[Ketiara]

The natural attack and Wild shape attacks work as normal and the multiplyer isnt increased. Multiattack is given free if I choose power attack.

the list of spells that are not allowed:
 Bear’s Endurance (PH 203)
 Bear’s Endurance, Mass (PH 203)
 Bite of the Werebear (SC 28)
 Bite of the Wereboar (SC 28)
 Bite of the Wererat (SC 28)
 Bite of the Weretiger (SC 28)
 Bite of the Werewolf (SC 29)
 Bull’s Strength (PH 207)
 Bull’s Strength, Mass (PH 207)
 Cat’s Grace (PH 208)
 Cat’s Grace, Mass (PH 208)
 Conviction (SC 52)
 Create Magic Tattoo (SC 55)
 Divine Agility (SC 69)
 Divine Insight (SC 70)
 Detect Evil/Good/Chaos/Law (PH 218)
 Eagle’s Splendor (PH 225)
 Eagle’s Splendor, Mass (PH 225)
 Ebon Eyes (SC 77)
 Fist of Stone (SC 94)
 Fox’s Cunning (PH 233)
 Fox’s Cunning, Mass (PH 233)
 Haste (PH 239)
 Inspirational Boost (SC 124)
 Living Undeath (SC 134)
 Longstrider (PH 249)
 Nixie’s Grace (SC 148)
 Owl’s Wisdom (PH 259)
 Owl’s Wisdom, Mass (PH 259)
 Sirine’s Grace (SC 191)
 Stalwart Pact (SC 204)

These are the spells that's banned, but our DM will ban spells he finds ridiculous (like hideous laughter, he doesn't like that you make someone laugh uncontrollably)

[Chronos]

So, when you said "to make melee happy", you really just meant "to make melee druids happy".

[Urpriest]

The natural attack and Wild shape attacks work as normal and the multiplyer isnt increased. Multiattack is given free if I choose power attack.

Ok, I think I'm misunderstanding something here. Your OP made it sound like there are no full-round actions, so nobody can make full attacks. But Multiattack only works on full attacks, so obviously that's not what you mean. Could you explain what you meant by "full rounds is gone! That means a move and an attack a round, to make melee happy there's a double 20d roll the highest is chosen." ?

I'm assuming English is not your native language, but if you could be any clearer about what that sentence means that would be very helpful.

[Turion]

So, when you said "to make melee happy", you really just meant "to make melee druids happy".

The impression I got was that full attacks now only cost a standard action, not that they had been completely removed from the game.

[Psyren]

The impression I got was that full attacks now only cost a standard action, not that they had been completely removed from the game.

What I read is that you still only get one attack (unless you're using multiattack?) but you get two chances for that attack to hit.

Or something.

I agree with Urpriest, it's very confusing :smallfrown:

[Randomocity132]

These are the spells that's banned, but our DM will ban spells he finds ridiculous (like hideous laughter, he doesn't like that you make someone laugh uncontrollably)

Half the spell list is ridiculous things. That's magic.

[Feilith]

Alright im assuming you mean he made full attacks a standard action. For that i suggest focusing on your wild shape because now its stupid powerful.

Also about spells. If you wanna be able to do ANY casting at higher levels id suggest meta magic feats for spells like produce flame, entange, SNA, and the like because once you get to 6th lv spells theyre all "ridiculous" and are subject to being banned.

Also if full attacks are used as standard actions you could just take scout levels for skirmish damage as you wont be penalized for moving and you'll add D6s to all of your attacks made once you've moved the required 10 ft for skirmish damage.

Edit: if my assumption is wrong and he just got rid of full attacks he killed all worth of melee and your wildshape is now reallly bad for combat and you should almost never go into melee. Go metamagic and make your animal companion a mount or something.

[Ketiara]

ok first of all, yea my native language is danish, and reading the OP I see that ive been really unclear.
ok ill try again, and thanks for your patience.

Melee attacks with weapons (cant remember what its called but the attack that gives you more attacks the higher base attack you have). They have been altered so you only have one attack regardless of your BAB. this means you dont want to make a full round attack because its useless. But you do get a larger bonus to str damage. Twohand fighting is x2 str bonus, offhand bonus has gone from 1/2 to 1. besides you are rolling 2d20 on your attack roll to lower the misschance.

Because my DM has never played a Druid, he knows little about them and how to scale them to this new system, so he has left them alone for now. This means that an attack as a druid in Bearform will be 2 claws and one bite and with multiattack the penalty is lowered as you are all used to. The druid in this form is allowed a full attack or a standart + move as normal. But none of the previous mentioned "buffs" (double dice roll and str dmg multiplayer) doesnt apply for these "natural" attacks... Unless I decide to WS into a legendary ape and wield a staff... at wich point I will get the same bonuses as if I was a fighter wielding a sword.

Hope I make a bit more sense. And I will ofcourse answer all your questions, because they will probably make me realise any flaws in his system, so we will be able to fix it.

But back to the point... Knowing what you do now, what spells would you choose for a druid?

I really appreciate your help and patience regarding my spelling, writing and not being able to make myself clear.

[Ketiara]

Half the spell list is ridiculous things. That's magic.

yea I know, but mostly it will be stuff thats ability/skill boosting, but later on it will be spells that are hard to understand, overpowered, misused, unreasonably slow or hard to play out.

The point of all of this it to make the game faster paced... and atm Im really slowing it all down, but thats another matter. And not a point to be discussed in this thread :D

[Randomocity132]

Melee attacks with weapons (cant remember what its called but the attack that gives you more attacks the higher base attack you have). They have been altered so you only have one attack regardless of your BAB. this means you dont want to make a full round attack because its useless. But you do get a larger bonus to str damage. Twohand fighting is x2 str bonus, offhand bonus has gone from 1/2 to 1. besides you are rolling 2d20 on your attack roll to lower the misschance.

Because my DM has never played a Druid, he knows little about them and how to scale them to this new system, so he has left them alone for now. This means that an attack as a druid in Bearform will be 2 claws and one bite and with multiattack the penalty is lowered as you are all used to. The druid in this form is allowed a full attack or a standart + move as normal. But none of the previous mentioned "buffs" (double dice roll and str dmg multiplayer) doesnt apply for these "natural" attacks... Unless I decide to WS into a legendary ape and wield a staff... at wich point I will get the same bonuses as if I was a fighter wielding a sword.


This sounds like attacks from monsters, and wildshaped druids, are the same as they were before, and the only thing your DM has changed is attacks with weapons, and in such a way that 2handed weapons and power attacks are now stupid strong, while Monks, Rangers and Rogues will suffer immensely.

Honestly, it doesn't seem like he knows what he's doing.

[Urpriest]

Ah ok. It's a...silly system, to put it mildly. But now I understand how it's set up.

First of all, if you want to break your DM's brain, pick up the Improved Unarmed Strike. That way you get the "weapon" attack rules (the word you're looking for is iterative, by the way, it means that they iterate, so they come one by one in a specific order) and you still get to make your natural attacks. But that will break your DM's brain, so don't do it.

Wild Shape is still quite sexy, given that you get both Multiattack and Power Attack for one feat. Your DM appears to dislike pretty much only buff spells, which is odd but ok. Come to think of it, I'm guessing that since most of these spells raise ability scores, your DM is trying to limit the ability to buff ability scores, since he's giving you free ability points? This is a bit weird, but at least that means he's weird and not just stupid.

Come to think of it, I'm not sure I get how your modified spellcasting system works either. It sounds to me like at the beginning of the day you choose a number of spells at each level equal to what you would normally get as spells per day, then you can cast them spontaneously from mana points. Is that right?

In that case, at this level you're picking one 5th level spell, two 4ths, three 3rds, four 2nds, four 1sts, and six 0ths, right? And you can change these every day?

If I'm reading you right, your casting is quite similar to that of the Spirit Shaman. This Spirit Shaman Handbook (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19865442/The_Spirit_Shaman_Handbook) has some good general advice for that sort of situation. More specifically, I'd take a look through the various handbooks and look for spells that can be spammed. Pick up a few buffs since you're interested in melee, but you should grab a few of the better options for ranged damage as well, since few of your party members appear to be able to fight much at range. Definitely pick up at least one Summon Nature's Ally, but you don't need one for every slot (and if you get them for free from the Druid's class features like a normal Druid does, all the better).