Charger Assistence

[Dawnmor]

It seems my last character I been wracking my brain all over has died yesterday (The 11th) in a horrible attempt to get more XP and little did I know he was killed by 4 red dragonspawn capable of firing off 5d6 fire balls (I was killed with a 30 HP ball SINGLE! HP ball and my HP total was 18 soo I got friends to say the least.

So I was thinking of possibly doing a Charger type character but im in conflict.

1) I have no idea what im doing, I played a charger vanguard in ME3 and a Warrior charger in WOW, now I Want to do one in DND.

2) I was contemplating between a water orc feral, Mineral warrior (Debating the mineral warrior) Which in total would give me 2 claws after INA to 2d6, DR 8/adamantine, +8 str, -2 dex, + 4 Con, -6 Int, +0 Wis, and -2 Cha combining just orc and Feral stats, its a +10 str, +8 con with Mineral warrior.

But I was considering using The thrikreen out of the back of Complete Psionics combined with Feral which would give me top speed than anyone else at a speed of 50ft, and if I use just Feral its a +6 Str, +2 Dex, +4 Con (I think).

Slightly less but I would get 4 Arms with 2d6 claws to each claw after INA, Multi attack, Would get insane jump, so Would make for a fun LEAP ATTACK charger type build.

The idea is to survive long enough to get close, so close they are dead before they realize they are dead. But I never played a Charger before.

Most charges suggest Spiked Chain, shield and weapon, but to me I prefer to stick with claws and the Orc will give me the greater strength bonuse which makes for fun charging, but the KReen gives me more attacks, less stats, greater charge to Leap attack things to death, And slightly less armor.

BUT! This will be made up with Rhino Armor for an additional 2d6 to charge damage, Improved Bullrush, Power attack, Cleave, great cleave, Powerful charge, greater powerful charge, leap attack damage and I am planning on going for the Dungeon Crasher Fighter with taking 1 level of Barbarian to qualify for Frenzied berserker? any additional levels left over will probly go into bear warrior, even 1 level in bear warrior will give me an additional + 8 str and +2 con, + Frenzied with Extra rages or two?.

But knowing my luck I am doing this wrong?

Even considered a warforged but no one in the party can heal a warforged? but then again we dont have a cleric so no one will heal me if I got hurt outside of using a belt of healing. But the heal is to kill them BEFORE! they can kill everyone.

Any books out of Core, races, completes, are allowed as far as I know, Most of the faerun stuff is allowed, pretty much anything is allowed outside of Dragon magazines and such, LA Buy off is allowed which is why I Was considering the Orc feral but with the kreen capable of amusing things with 4 attacks I dunno if the lack of defense will make up for the superior offense?.

Oh yeah starting level is 4, 3 if I do LA buy off.

[GilesTheCleric]

With a charger build, all you need is power attack, and a two-hander. Adding on PA multipliers, pounce, shock trooper etc. are just icing. Anything beyond the basics is just going to be overkill anyway, so you should feel free to grab whatever looks fun or flavourful.

Do keep in mind that charging is best with a two-hander, so picking a race with more arms isn't really important unless you plan to use fuse arms all the time. Increasing your to-hit, strength/damage, and movement speed is all you really need to work on. Some way of dealing with different movement types, difficult terrain, and magic would be advisable, however.

[Firechanter]

Pounce, Power Attack, , Shock Trooper, Leap Attack.
Combine with a Valorous Weapon. Two-handed, of course.

If you combine all of those, you will definitely have Overkill capability. So you can leave out one or two things.

There are piles and piles of ways to get Pounce, most of them magical (or psionic) however, because of course in D&D, Magic can do everything, and everything better than everyone else. But I'm not bitter. [I]*sounds very bitter*
The only two good non-magical options (that I am aware of) are:
* Barbarian with ACF: Spirit Totem (Lion) [in short just nicked "Spirit Lion"]. A 1-level dip is enough.
* Tiger Claw maneuver "Pouncing Charge", available from level 9. My preferred method.

You can't use the Tiger Claw shtick every round, but I see that as an advantage: if you start spamming your Pounce too often, the DM _will_ think of things to shut you down. Also, Warblades are not one-trick ponies, so even when you can't charge you still have several other aces up your sleeve.

Talking about Warblade maneuvers: combine "Wall of Blades" with your Heedless Charge, which helps offset your dumped AC.

Max your Jump skill. Not just for Leap Attack (which requires an easy check), but also because if you can jump over the ground, you can ignore difficult terrain.

Edit:
Note that this recipe does not require any form of special Strength optimization. Being a Human with a starting score of Str 16 will totally suffice to oneshot anything that the DM might conceivably throw at you.

[Medic!]

Being an orc puts Headlong Rush on the table from Races of Faerun.

[Greenish]

There are piles and piles of ways to get Pounce, most of them magical (or psionic) however, because of course in D&D, Magic can do everything, and everything better than everyone else. But I'm not bitter. *sounds very bitter*
The only two good non-magical options (that I am aware of) are:
* Barbarian with ACF: Spirit Totem (Lion) [in short just nicked "Spirit Lion"]. A 1-level dip is enough.
* Tiger Claw maneuver "Pouncing Charge", available from level 9. My preferred method.Snow Tiger Berserker can work, especially if you go unarmed. Reachrunner or Wildrunner aren't terrible, either.


Anyway, you can't do LA buy-off if you have more than 1 LA (at those levels). There's a non-psionic thri-kreen with only +1 LA (in addition to the RHD) in Shining South (or Unapproachable East, I forget).

There's a fairly strong case to be made that the Special Attacks from Feral template are only a function of RHD, not class levels (since it specifically refers to "monster HD").

Either way, you should probably consider how much damage is appropriate to the campaign. DMs tend to be upset if you can one-shot all the monsters, and either start banning stuff or tossing in tougher fights (where your party might not be able to keep up). That, or just using tactics to negate charging, which isn't that funny if it's your only trick. You know your group and DM the best, though.

[Piggy Knowles]

So, if you're planning on charging, there are just a few things you need to think about.

1. Find a way to make more than one attack on the end of your charge.

Examples:

Lion spirit totem barbarian 1, from Complete Champion, gives pounce.
Turn into an animal or other creature with pounce (most of the big cats or raptor dinosaurs have this), via polymorph, metamorphosis, wild shape, etc.
Sphinx Claws soulmeld, gives pounce with natural weapons.
Feral template, first round only.
Blood-spiked Charger feat.


2. Get some sources of static bonus damage (extra dice are nice, but static damage is where it's at, thanks to D&D multiplier rules).

Examples:

Power Attack and a two-handed weapon. When combined with Shock Trooper or other ways of reducing AB, it's hard to beat.
Leading the Charge stance (+IL to all charges for you and your allies).
Sneak attack + Craven.
War Master's Charge maneuver, and other similar maneuvers.


3. Add on some nice damage multipliers.

Examples:

Headlong Rush (orc-only feat, doubles damage on a charge in exchange for a bigger hit to your defenses).
Valorous weapon enhancement.
Battle Jump feat (major restrictions, possibly only available to the taer, which is a really crappy race).
Diving charge, either with a claw/talon attack for anyone with a fly speed, or with any piercing weapon for raptorans and dragonborn.


So, putting it all together, let's toss some simple builds together and see what happens!

LEVEL 6 CRAZINESS

Frostblood Orc, Barbarian 1/Ranger 3/Fighter 2

1. Barbarian1- Power Attack
2. Ranger1- Track
3. Ranger2- TWF/Rapid Shot, Extra Rage
4. Ranger3- Headlong Rush
5. Fighter1- Improved Bull Rush
6. Fighter2- Leap Attack, Shock Trooper

ACFs: Whirling Frenzy, Lion Spirit Totem

So, let's say we're totally naked, with an 18 base Strength to start and a nonmagical greatsword. On a charge at level 6, we've got three attacks, each dealing...

2d6 + 12 (str) + 12 (power attack) + 6 (Leap Attack giving +100% of your PA bonus - some argue that this should be 12, but we're going conservative), for 2d6+30 per swing. Not bad for level six, but not great... except that Headlong Rush means that it's all doubled. That means each attack is doing at minimum 64 points of damage, and with three attacks total on the end of a charge, the LEAST amount of damage you're doing is 192, or 204 against a favored enemy. At level 6, without a single item except for a nonmagical greatsword. (Average damage is actually 218, or 230 versus a favored enemy.)

Add in even remotely level-appropriate items - nothing crazy, maybe a +1 greatsword, something to boost your strength up by a couple of points, perhaps a weapon crystal for a bonus damage here or there, and you're easily over 300.

Note that, contrary to popular belief, Power Attack/Shock Trooper is NOT necessary to make a good charging build. It's just the easiest way. I've built warblade, crusader and totemist builds that can hit quadruple digits without touching Power Attack, but not at level six, and not without a little more work.

[animewatcha]

How would the ranger get headlong rush at level 4?

[Piggy Knowles]

Frostblood orc gets endurance as a bonus feat, with the caveat that if it gains endurance later, it can instead choose another feat.

Just a bit of necessary shuffling to get both Leap Attack and Headlong Rush in by level 6, since neither is a fighter feat.

[Nightgaun7]

So, if you're planning on charging, there are just a few things you need to think about.

1. Find a way to make more than one attack on the end of your charge.

Examples:

Lion spirit totem barbarian 1, from Complete Champion, gives pounce.
Turn into an animal or other creature with pounce (most of the big cats or raptor dinosaurs have this), via polymorph, metamorphosis, wild shape, etc.
Sphinx Claws soulmeld, gives pounce with natural weapons.
Feral template, first round only.
Blood-spiked Charger feat.


2. Get some sources of static bonus damage (extra dice are nice, but static damage is where it's at, thanks to D&D multiplier rules).

Examples:

Power Attack and a two-handed weapon. When combined with Shock Trooper or other ways of reducing AB, it's hard to beat.
Leading the Charge stance (+IL to all charges for you and your allies).
Sneak attack + Craven.
War Master's Charge maneuver, and other similar maneuvers.


3. Add on some nice damage multipliers.

Examples:

Headlong Rush (orc-only feat, doubles damage on a charge in exchange for a bigger hit to your defenses).
Valorous weapon enhancement.
Battle Jump feat (major restrictions, possibly only available to the taer, which is a really crappy race).
Diving charge, either with a claw/talon attack for anyone with a fly speed, or with any piercing weapon for raptorans and dragonborn.


So, putting it all together, let's toss some simple builds together and see what happens!

LEVEL 6 CRAZINESS

Frostblood Orc, Barbarian 1/Ranger 3/Fighter 2

1. Barbarian1- Power Attack
2. Ranger1- Track
3. Ranger2- TWF/Rapid Shot, Extra Rage
4. Ranger3- Headlong Rush
5. Fighter1- Improved Bull Rush
6. Fighter2- Leap Attack, Shock Trooper

ACFs: Whirling Frenzy, Lion Spirit Totem

So, let's say we're totally naked, with an 18 base Strength to start and a nonmagical greatsword. On a charge at level 6, we've got three attacks, each dealing...

2d6 + 12 (str) + 12 (power attack) + 6 (Leap Attack giving +100% of your PA bonus - some argue that this should be 12, but we're going conservative), for 2d6+30 per swing. Not bad for level six, but not great... except that Headlong Rush means that it's all doubled. That means each attack is doing at minimum 64 points of damage, and with three attacks total on the end of a charge, the LEAST amount of damage you're doing is 192, or 204 against a favored enemy. At level 6, without a single item except for a nonmagical greatsword. (Average damage is actually 218, or 230 versus a favored enemy.)

Add in even remotely level-appropriate items - nothing crazy, maybe a +1 greatsword, something to boost your strength up by a couple of points, perhaps a weapon crystal for a bonus damage here or there, and you're easily over 300.

Note that, contrary to popular belief, Power Attack/Shock Trooper is NOT necessary to make a good charging build. It's just the easiest way. I've built warblade, crusader and totemist builds that can hit quadruple digits without touching Power Attack, but not at level six, and not without a little more work.

There's a Ranger style that lets you use THW, I believe. Might be from Dragon.

Also, that damage calculation fails to account for the reduced chance of hitting from iteratives/power attacking. You are dumping it due to Shock Trooper most of the time, but still.

[Piggy Knowles]

Also, that damage calculation fails to account for the reduced chance of hitting from iteratives/power attacking. You are dumping it due to Shock Trooper most of the time, but still.

True - I'm just trying to highlight the damage a fairly basic Shock Trooper build can do at level 6 even without items. My point is to show off why Shock Troopers are the "easiest" chargers to build. It also doesn't take into account the limitations inherent in charging (needing LoS, terrain-dependent, issues with concealment and miss chances, the fact that a single fairly inexpensive item shuts it down completely), nor does it add in the damage spike from criticals that should slightly increase average damage.

According to Optimization by the Numbers, an average CR 6 enemy will have about 70 HP and an AC of 18-19. With a nonmagical, nonmasterwork greatsword and using Shock Trooper to sacrifice AC, that orc will have an attack routine of +14/+14/+9 (+6/+1 from BAB, +2 from charging, +8 from Strength, -2 plus an extra attack from Whirling Frenzy). Considering that a single average damage hit will do 74 points of damage, that means you're likely to KO a level-appropriate enemy every single round. Add in items and you're swinging far above what your ECL would indicate.

[Nightgaun7]

True - I'm just trying to highlight the damage a fairly basic Shock Trooper build can do at level 6 even without items. My point is to show off why Shock Troopers are the "easiest" chargers to build. It also doesn't take into account the limitations inherent in charging (needing LoS, terrain-dependent, issues with concealment and miss chances, the fact that a single fairly inexpensive item shuts it down completely), nor does it add in the damage spike from criticals that should slightly increase average damage.

According to Optimization by the Numbers, an average CR 6 enemy will have about 70 HP and an AC of 18-19. With a nonmagical, nonmasterwork greatsword and using Shock Trooper to sacrifice AC, that orc will have an attack routine of +14/+14/+9 (+6/+1 from BAB, +2 from charging, +8 from Strength, -2 plus an extra attack from Whirling Frenzy). Considering that a single average damage hit will do 74 points of damage, that means you're likely to KO a level-appropriate enemy every single round. Add in items and you're swinging far above what your ECL would indicate.

I played a Barbarian/Warblade charger and it was great fun, but it definitely requires a GM who won't freak out on seeing large numbers.

[herrhauptmann]

There's a Ranger style that lets you use THW, I believe. Might be from Dragon.

Also, that damage calculation fails to account for the reduced chance of hitting from iteratives/power attacking. You are dumping it due to Shock Trooper most of the time, but still.

Dragon #326, page 97. 11th level feat is pretty much useless though.
There's also a grappling/punching version, mounted combat, net, and throwing styles in that magazine.

[Piggy Knowles]

If you're allowed to TWF greatsword plus armor spikes, then TWF is not completely useless in the build. I know some DMs take umbrage at that, though, so YMMV. For what it's worth, I've never had a problem with it in games I've run.

[Person_Man]

How to get Pounce or Free Movement (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103358)

Optimizing Power Attack (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7165087)

Increasing your size and reach (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7081777)

Guide to Melee Combos (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127026)

Adding Extra attacks and attacks of opportunity (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7066595)

Comprehensive list of way to augment attack roll (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144321)

I would also add that once you put together a reasonable high damage combo, you should move on to some other combo, instead of sinking all of your resources (class abilities, feats, magic items) into it. This can be accomplished with a huge number of different permutations, depending on your class choice.