Gods gone Mad - looking for collaborators

[Great_Cthulhu]

Heya everyone!
I've had this idea for a sorta-postapocalyptic horror/sword&sorcery setting (Pathfinder ruleset) for a while but lacked the drive or the ideas to really flesh things out. Now that I have some more time, however, I am considering doing just that...but it would help a lot to get some advice and maybe others to collaborate with me on the world-building part.

The basic premise is that, one day, the gods of a rather normal fantasy world went mad. Without an exception, they went stark raving violently insane. Their madness infected their priesthood and the gods and their churches nearly destroyed the world before a group of powerful spellcasters managed to erect a barrier around the world that kept the gods from interfering directly. But their influence can still be felt in the terrible monsters that they created in their fits of frothing madness and the actions of their priests....

Basically, the gods have been turned by something into Eldritch Abominations, insane and evil. Their priesthoods have been outlawed but there are still some secret cults of them left. Clerics still exist but they dedicate themselves to an abstract ideal now.

That's the basic premise. I don't really have much else at the moment, sadly. As I stated, I am looking for help to get the creation process started.

[Avaris]

Well, your name is appropriate!

The foundation of this setting should be what the state of the world was before the madness, even if only a basic idea. At the very least, what was the Pantheon of Gods like, what countries existed in the world, and what was the relationship of each of those countries to the established religions? I suspect Theocracies would have a much harder time than a secular society for example.

Second, how long ago was the madness, and how quickly did people realise what was going on? This would affect how countries reacted to the event and how well they have recovered since.

I'd be interested to help flesh out this setting. It seems like a fun concept. More ideas/questions as they come to me.

[Thunderfist12]

Okay - who were these gods, before the Madness, and how were their relationships with each other? This would effect what their deranged minds processed as a good idea when they went insane.

[Great_Cthulhu]

Will flesh out the gods tomorrow as I do not have much time at the moment.
But the madness began about 120 years ago and the seals were placed 5 years later.

[Avaris]

So, at least two if not three (human) generations ago. Means that the shorter lived races will have a quite different view of the world than the longer lived ones I think: optimism versus pessimism.

If I could make a suggestion, I don't think the barrier should block off all divine influence. It should either only protect certain areas (granted, this would include much of the civilised world) or have some cost to maintain, or have varying strength throughout the year or something.

In fact, here's a idea: the way the spell worked was to shift the links of the divine realms so that rather than leading to the mortal world, they led to a nearby lifeless world: the moon. The moon is far enough away that travel from there to here is all but impossible (a high level wizard could manage it), but the influence of the divine leaks through more based on how much of the moon appears in the sky. Full moons are dangerous, and not because of werewolves! (in fact, could restyle werewolves as beings designed to fight the divine!)

Edit: For a completely random idea, this Moon = Mad Gods idea works really well. Historically, the moon was associated with madness to some extent: Lunacy, Lunatics. Also a nice twist on normal horror: the darkest nights are actually the safest.

[Great_Cthulhu]

One important thing to note is that there were no "evil gods". The gods were at best good and at worst neutral in regards to the mortals they ruled over. The forces of evil were demonic in nature. The demons, by the way, were just as shocked by the sudden onset of madness among the gods as the mortals.

9 gods ruled over the realm, which was called Morteth.

Alignment is always pre-madness
Skjalfor(CN): The Dragon King, god of Strength and rule by might. This primordial entity, often depicted as a crowned serpent or dragon, was worshipped in many guises by primitive tribes all over the world, where raw strength was still able to triumph over mind and guile.

Morteth(N): The Queen of Elements. She was also the goddess of the world itself which bore her name and which was long believed to be her actual body. She ruled over the five elements earth, fire, water, air and soul and was thus also associated with birth, since she breathed the soul into each newborn.

Aenyon(LG): The god of righteous combat, also called Heaven's General. Interestingly, since he guarded the Garden of Eternity, he was also the god of immortality and in that aspect, was worshipped by the dwarves (who, in this world, did not die of old age).

Hilya and Garan (CG): The Divine Consorts are the patrons of love, marriage and lust. It's said that Morteth was their firstborn and that, once, they ruled supreme over the other gods but they gave up a great deal of their power when the world was finished.

Leth(N): He/she was the patron of death and the afterlife, a tall, indistinct figure of uncertain gender and age. It was the archenemy of the demon lord Orcus, Prince of the Undead. It was also the god of secrets. There were rumours that Leth was older than even Hilya and Garan.

Garkon(NG): God of the sun and of nature, Garkon was fond of travelling the world, often ignoring his godly duties to take on the guise of an ordinary man enjoying the outdoors and the good life.

Liliya (CN): Luck is a fickle thing and Liliya, goddess of luck, was no less so, often to the point where the other gods called her mad. But still, despite being unpredictable, she was always able to worm her way into their good graces by virtue of her charm.

Jidron (LN): The Lord of Magic, he was the second child of the Divine Consorts and tasked with holding the threads of magic that held the world together. Absolutely unyielding in his duties, he promoted diligence and study and although magic served sorcerers as well, he had only disdain to offer them.

[Thunderfist12]

This is what I could see them doing after the madness.

Skjalfor gone mad: He would be out to destroy everything, and he would probably be capable of it, too.

Morteth gone mad: Okay, this gives it to druids right up the backside. Now that the elements are tainted with her insanity, so are druids who channel them.

Aenyon gone mad: It would take a while for the followers of this god to realize his new crusade was madness. He'd be out to kill everyone.

Hilya and Garan gone mad: Wow, this would have effects. Basically, suicide and homocide would become a lot more common. Want to know why? Use your imagination.

Leth gone mad: I love irony. Leth would probably try, in his madness, to correct what Hilya and Garan had done by creating a pact that allows people to return to life - at a price. God of Undeath.

Garkon: "Hey, guys! Watch what he can do!" Yeah, so he would probably make the sun a bit too big for comfort. Think deserts, and jungles, and... well, deserts. Yeah, you might have a lot of those.

Liliya gone... practically the same?: Yeah, I don't see much of a change here.

Jidron gone mad: Think "wild magic". That's basically his contribution.

[Avaris]

Gotta say, I like this pantheon. What follows is going to be random thoughts and ideas, some of which may work with your plans and others may not.


One important thing to note is that there were no "evil gods". The gods were at best good and at worst neutral in regards to the mortals they ruled over. The forces of evil were demonic in nature. The demons, by the way, were just as shocked by the sudden onset of madness among the gods as the mortals.
I like this. The traditional evil gods never make any sense, so its nice to lose them. The Demons being shocked is also great, lots of potential story there (which I might pick up on further down the list)


9 gods ruled over the realm, which was called Morteth.

Alignment is always pre-madness
Skjalfor(CN): The Dragon King, god of Strength and rule by might. This primordial entity, often depicted as a crowned serpent or dragon, was worshipped in many guises by primitive tribes all over the world, where raw strength was still able to triumph over mind and guile.
I feel the madness here would have worked to inspire the tribes to unite and destroy the civilised world: Clerics of Skjalfor became agitators working the tribes into a frenzy and directing them at nearby cities without care for the lives that were lost (old Skjalfor could have been about rule of might, but also recognising when someone is stronger than you and not being stupid or throwing your life away). I can see something like the Mongols or the Huns, sweeping all before them and laying waste to entire countries by suddenly becoming united rather than fighting between themselves.

Alternatively, the tribes could have descended into an orgy of violence and bloodlust, with entire tribes being wiped out by their own hands through increasingly violent martial competitions and sacrifice.

Also, Dragons. A cool twist could be to have had no Chromatic Dragons existing before the Madness, with them being unleashed upon the world by Skjalfor to be servants of destruction in his own image.


Morteth(N): The Queen of Elements. She was also the goddess of the world itself which bore her name and which was long believed to be her actual body. She ruled over the five elements earth, fire, water, air and soul and was thus also associated with birth, since she breathed the soul into each newborn.
LIFE FOR ALL! In her madness, Morteth released the element of Soul so that it could find homes beyond those of flesh and blood that she had previously breathed life into. Elementals, nature spirits, Treants... all could have been previously unknown, and emerged in the years after the madness. Her new goal is to spread and invigorate life everywhere, awakening the whole world and turning it into a constantly shifting mass. All life should be one after all.


Aenyon(LG): The god of righteous combat, also called Heaven's General. Interestingly, since he guarded the Garden of Eternity, he was also the god of immortality and in that aspect, was worshipped by the dwarves (who, in this world, did not die of old age).Not so much an idea for Aenyon himself, but for a realm in the world. Prior to the madness, a relatively secluded country was essentially ruled by Paladins of Aenyon. Think Switzerland with Paladins (was already thinking mountains, so Dwarves work really well). In the early days of the madness, this country sealed its borders, and no-one has entered since, although occasional crusades have swept forth to exterminate followers of the mad gods. A couple of options for the reality behind this: 1) the country was (and still is) controlled by an avatar of Aenyon, who was shielded from the madness through being on the mortal realm, and now sees his duty as finding a way of fixing things, or 2) the Paladins knew Aenyon's messages were changing, and shut themselves off to deliberate their actions. While secluded, a cabal of Lawful Demons made contact with them and offered to work together to fix the world, as neither side in the eternal war of good and evil knew what to do. They have worked together ever since (though still disagree on methods)


Hilya and Garan (CG): The Divine Consorts are the patrons of love, marriage and lust. It's said that Morteth was their firstborn and that, once, they ruled supreme over the other gods but they gave up a great deal of their power when the world was finished.
I can see these two becoming the most horrific and alien of the Gods. Essentially, they merge into one being, two-headed, many limbed, encouraging all who listen to give into their desires. Could Dreams be part of their domain? They assault the world with nightmares.


Leth(N): He/she was the patron of death and the afterlife, a tall, indistinct figure of uncertain gender and age. It was the archenemy of the demon lord Orcus, Prince of the Undead. It was also the god of secrets. There were rumours that Leth was older than even Hilya and Garan.
I think Leth would have just gone silent, retreating even further into the darkness outside reality where the dead go. No-one knows what it is plotting, but because of it's absence the spell was unable to take account of its actions, so the world is extremely vulnerable should Leth act. Cults of Leth seek to gather knowledge, hoping to find the secret of how to summon their God's attention back to the world.


Garkon(NG): God of the sun and of nature, Garkon was fond of travelling the world, often ignoring his godly duties to take on the guise of an ordinary man enjoying the outdoors and the good life.
I think it would be fun to have Garkon still wandering the world. His madness is that he got what he really wanted, and forgot who and what he was. Chronic amnesiac, rarely remembering anything for more than a few days or weeks. Also allows for a plot arc of restoring him to sanity, as he is A) accessible and B) not dangerous in a destroy the world kind of way.


Liliya (CN): Luck is a fickle thing and Liliya, goddess of luck, was no less so, often to the point where the other gods called her mad. But still, despite being unpredictable, she was always able to worm her way into their good graces by virtue of her charm.
Her madness keeps her sane. Although affected by the Madness as the others were, the impact would be dramatically less, and in the years of trouble she would help mortals as much as hinder them. To go further, possibly regarded as the only unchanged God, and possibly not even outlawed in all countries.


Jidron (LN): The Lord of Magic, he was the second child of the Divine Consorts and tasked with holding the threads of magic that held the world together. Absolutely unyielding in his duties, he promoted diligence and study and although magic served sorcerers as well, he had only disdain to offer them.
I personally feel that at least one of the Gods should have been killed in the Madness, either by mortals or another God. Jidron fits this role quite well: how else were the wizards able to seize the power necessary to bar the Gods themselves from the world? His death created zones of Wild Magic, but also allowed for the end of the Madness. Edit: could have been killed by Aenyon.

[Alexkubel]

I am going to confess I am technically mad, though act completely sane (most of the time) this kind of madness can be unpredictable. though I've learnt to be in control of my mind, I know in many areas I am weak but using my own failures is not one of them.

Liliyth should be the least of the threats in her madness becoming more predictable therefore should she intend harm the people could see it coming.

the question is though is their ideals perverted (and not in the modern meaning)?

[Steckie]

Gotta say, I like this pantheon. What follows is going to be random thoughts and ideas, some of which may work with your plans and others may not.

Since i like most of your ideas i'm just going to add a few of my thoughts to them.





I feel the madness here would have worked to inspire the tribes to unite and destroy the civilised world: Clerics of Skjalfor became agitators working the tribes into a frenzy and directing them at nearby cities without care for the lives that were lost (old Skjalfor could have been about rule of might, but also recognising when someone is stronger than you and not being stupid or throwing your life away). I can see something like the Mongols or the Huns, sweeping all before them and laying waste to entire countries by suddenly becoming united rather than fighting between themselves.

Alternatively, the tribes could have descended into an orgy of violence and bloodlust, with entire tribes being wiped out by their own hands through increasingly violent martial competitions and sacrifice.

I like this but wouldn't let all tribes go violent. Why not let the shamans of about 50% of the tribes go mad and take over control of the tribe. They're the ones that start attacking randomly.
20% of the tribes just migrated away as fast as they can. They move over the land like lucusts, eating everything they come across. They aren't strong enough to take large cities, but large enough to give trouble when they're moving through the area.
20% of the tribes stayed put, killed their shamans and united under strong Khans. They're doing what they can to restore the old ways.
The other 10% either died or disappeared.


Also, Dragons. A cool twist could be to have had no Chromatic Dragons existing before the Madness, with them being unleashed upon the world by Skjalfor to be servants of destruction in his own image.

I like that.
Maybe the non-chromatic dragons even lost the ability to fly. Because let's face it: without magic the wings of a dragon probably can't support it's weight. And once Skjalfor went mad, they can't go up in the air anymore. Perhaps they can still do a bit of floating down from a high point, but lifting off on their own strength is impossible.
They're now desperatly trying to find a way to be able to fly again while being hunted down by chromatic dragons (who have a huge advantage since they can fly).




LIFE FOR ALL! In her madness, Morteth released the element of Soul so that it could find homes beyond those of flesh and blood that she had previously breathed life into. Elementals, nature spirits, Treants... all could have been previously unknown, and emerged in the years after the madness. Her new goal is to spread and invigorate life everywhere, awakening the whole world and turning it into a constantly shifting mass. All life should be one after all.

I like it.
A nice twist would be that Morteth herself is actually dying. And while still very much insane, she doesn't want to die before she reaches her goal.
In fact, she might need the power of her own death to be able to kickstart the whole world into becoming one huge lifeform.
She considers this world to be the larva of the next one and her Soul will give the nourishment for it to evolve to the next step.



Not so much an idea for Aenyon himself, but for a realm in the world. Prior to the madness, a relatively secluded country was essentially ruled by Paladins of Aenyon. Think Switzerland with Paladins (was already thinking mountains, so Dwarves work really well). In the early days of the madness, this country sealed its borders, and no-one has entered since, although occasional crusades have swept forth to exterminate followers of the mad gods. A couple of options for the reality behind this: 1) the country was (and still is) controlled by an avatar of Aenyon, who was shielded from the madness through being on the mortal realm, and now sees his duty as finding a way of fixing things, or 2) the Paladins knew Aenyon's messages were changing, and shut themselves off to deliberate their actions. While secluded, a cabal of Lawful Demons made contact with them and offered to work together to fix the world, as neither side in the eternal war of good and evil knew what to do. They have worked together ever since (though still disagree on methods)

Dwarf Switzerland sounds good.
For Aenyon himself: how about he took the garden of eternity for himself, kidnapped a whole lot of demons and made them into breeding machines to make his own army. His only goal is to drill them into fighting battles and winning them.
He now hates immortality and believes death in combat is the best way to die. He has a death wish, but consideres suicide to be dishonorable. So he will do the best he can to stay alive while hoping to find somebody strong enough to kill him.



I can see these two becoming the most horrific and alien of the Gods. Essentially, they merge into one being, two-headed, many limbed, encouraging all who listen to give into their desires. Could Dreams be part of their domain? They assault the world with nightmares.

Perhaps they/it have somehow convinced the Sucubii to join them. Or they drove the Sucubii insane as well.
However they did it, this change of allegiance drove the rest of the demons into all out war, while before this they were divided on what to do with the insane gods.



I think Leth would have just gone silent, retreating even further into the darkness outside reality where the dead go. No-one knows what it is plotting, but because of it's absence the spell was unable to take account of its actions, so the world is extremely vulnerable should Leth act. Cults of Leth seek to gather knowledge, hoping to find the secret of how to summon their God's attention back to the world.

No comments here.


I think it would be fun to have Garkon still wandering the world. His madness is that he got what he really wanted, and forgot who and what he was. Chronic amnesiac, rarely remembering anything for more than a few days or weeks. Also allows for a plot arc of restoring him to sanity, as he is A) accessible and B) not dangerous in a destroy the world kind of way.

I like this but would still change things a bit.
You've made Hilya and Garan into one being, so how about Garkon split into two?
One half is, like you described, wandering the world.
The oher half has changed into one giant storm (think red storm of Jupiter) going from point A to point B, not diverging from that path. That half does not explore anymore, it's not curious anymore and doesn't like to disquise himself anymore.
It just travels from A to B and back again, over and over. I would however let the storm either drop valuable items or go over valuable land so that people still need to go there.



Her madness keeps her sane. Although affected by the Madness as the others were, the impact would be dramatically less, and in the years of trouble she would help mortals as much as hinder them. To go further, possibly regarded as the only unchanged God, and possibly not even outlawed in all countries.

Not much i can think of now for her.
Well there is one thing, but that's perhaps a bit silly: once she went mad, every time somebody throws a coin in the air, it lands on heads.
No explanations, dice work the way they should it's only coins.



I personally feel that at least one of the Gods should have been killed in the Madness, either by mortals or another God. Jidron fits this role quite well: how else were the wizards able to seize the power necessary to bar the Gods themselves from the world? His death created zones of Wild Magic, but also allowed for the end of the Madness. Edit: could have been killed by Aenyon.

I like it, and death by Aenyon sounds great for him.

[Avaris]

Ok, so today I've been thinking of a basic chronology/major events for the 5 years the madness lasted, and a bit of time around it. Obviously Great Cuthulu gets veto, an other ideas should be incorporated!

Note that my ideas might not completely work with the 'one day, they all went stark raving mad' specification: it's a bit slower and less definitively mad (in fact, it's arguable that some don't go mad at all...). Still, here goes.

2 years before the madness
Last known direct clerical contact with Leth. Being the God of Secrets, the priesthood of Leth had far less obvious direct influence from their God: they still called on clerical powers of course, but divine messages were few and far between, so it was not unusual for any one cleric to go months or years without divine inspiration. It was only some time after the cataclysm that they realised none of them had had such contact.

Year 1: The Year of False Spring
The year generally agreed by scholars as that in which the madness occurred. Noted for having a particularly early Spring, with many plants flowering in what would normally be late winter. Few at the time realised that this was despite the weather being little different from a normal year, and that many plants were dying just as quickly as they had grown, but that this was hidden by there being so much growth. Fairly obviously, this was due to Morteth releasing the Soul element into the world, though many thank Garkon, given he's God of nature.

Soon after the start of Spring, the Shamans of the various Skjalfor tribes began to call their scattered peoples together, typically to historically significant locations for the local tribesfolk (this happened independently in various places across the world). Some 80% of the tribesfolk heed the call, some travelling many leagues.

As summer neared, the High Priest of Aenyon (based in [Dwarven Switzerland]) declares a Grand Crusade, with the aim of purging various demon cults from the major civilisations. This quickly becomes similar to the Spanish Inquisition, with many innocent people being investigated and otherwise hounded by followers of Aenyon.

At the summer solstice the Gods Hilya and Garan manifest at the centre of the largest city in the world, declaring the start of the 'Festival of Passion' and inviting all around to celebrate their love of life. It is rumoured that Garkon is also present, although travelling through the crowds incognito. Naturally, the city quickly becomes THE place to be.

The Skjalfor tribes meet, and the shamans declare the coming of 'The Great One', who will lead the tribes to show their might and bring the civilised world to its knees. They claim that the chosen of Skjalfor is present among them, and encourage the tribesfolk into competition to determine who is strongest. Note that the same declaration is made at each of several different gatherings around the world. Some of the tribes (maybe a third of those present at the gatherings) become concerned at the increasingly bloodthirsty tone the competitions take, and leave, some abandoning or killing their shamans soon after.

The harvest this year is particularly prosperous, as the extra growth from Spring is still taking place. However certain civilisations more integrated with nature (stereotypical elves maybe, but could be some other group), start to realise that their homes and streets are becoming overrun within days if weeds are not dealt with, and start to glimpse strange figures moving through the undergrowth.

As the first snows of winter approach, the tribesfolk select their champions. Although a fair few tribesfolk were killed in the competition, they immediately start attacking the smaller tribes that had left the gatherings (or never attended) and driving them from their ancestral lands. Over the course of winter, some of these small groups start to assault relatively poorly defended towns and villages in search of food, while others simply seek a safe refuge.

At midwinter, the Crusade of Aenyon burns a small coastal city, leaving no inhabitants alive for fear of 'demonic influence'. Another two cities follow, although the Paladins involved start to voice their doubts.

Year 2: the Year of Strife
Hilya and Garan remain in place at the Festival of Passion, which is becoming increasingly depraved (although so slowly that no-one involved really notices). Travellers have flocked to the city, which has almost doubled in size through a vast sprawl of tents, caravans and other temporary structures. Few seem to care that there isn't enough food to go around in that place, and a not insignificant number of the poor choose to starve rather than leave.

It is Spring that makes people first realise something is wrong. Where the previous year's growth had been confined to plants, elementals begin to manifest in high concentrations, destroying several isolated communities. The forest realms are overrun by plant life, forcing the inhabitants to flee the influx of life, which is taking on increasingly strange forms, especially in the deepest areas of wilderness, where it is said the very rocks are growing wings and taking to the sky.

Around this time it is rumoured that Garkon has been seen in many different parts of the world, often seeking out priests of the various faiths directly and meeting with them privately (something previously unprecedented, as he always travels incognito.

In late Spring the High Priest of Aenyon is executed by the High Paladin of [Dwarven Switzerland], whose followers go on to imprison many priests before sealing the country's borders.

Over the course of the Summer things become even more chaotic, as the Tribes of Skjalfor start to assault and loot various cities. Many appeal to the Gods for help, but others start to see them as the cause of much of the Madness (little is known of Liliyon and Jidron's actions during this time)

As the one year anniversary of the festival of passion nears, it descends into outright debauchery. No desire goes unfulfilled, no dream unlived within the bounds of the city. Little is known of the exact events over the next year or so, only that very few people left alive, and many of those who did were haunted for the rest of their lives. Despite this, people still travelled to the city, drawn there by their dreams and by the fact that very little news of the true state of the city reaches the outside world.

By the end of the year, much of the World is in a state of chaos, and a few wiser sages have started to piece together the puzzle and blame the Gods, although few know how to respond. Some states outlaw the faith, but most have too many problems to deal with to police this.

Year 3
This year continues much as the previous, save for one major event: The Conquest of Hell. Abandoning his post at the Garden of Eternity, Aenyon leads a great host of Divine servants into Hell, counting among his forces the hosts of Leth, Hilya, Garan and Aenyon himself. They succeed in driving the Demons from the upper reaches of Hell, forcing many of them to flee to the mortal world. A great fortress is established, where Aenyon sets his throne.

Year 4
Early in the year, the Flight of Dragons occurs. Having led their tribes on a path of blood for the last couple of years, the warleaders still devoted to Skjalfor and their closest companions are suddenly transformed into the first chromatic dragons and immediately turn on their own people. The tribes are scattered.

Later, Garkon, Liliya and Jidron join forces to attack the Garden of Eternity for unknown purposes. They succeed in overwhelming the defensive force left by Aenyon, but it seems that he return before they could succeed in their goals for the garden. The three Gods should have been able to defeat him, but in the midst of battle Liliya turns on her fellows. This results in the apparent deaths of both Garkon and Jidron (although it is discovered some years later that Garkon survived, although his divine essence was shattered into multiple parts, including a Wandering Amnesiac, several supernatural phenomena and a number of artifacts. Jidron's remains fall to the mortal world, and are quickly seized by a cabal of archmages who have been working to save the world from the ravages of the Gods.

Year 5
An army of Paladins leave [Dwarven Switzerland] and join forces with the Archmage cabal. They march on the city where Hilya and Garan reside, finding it almost unrecognisable and almost 90% of the population dead or insane. Hilya and Garan themselves have seemingly combined into a single being, and are banished from the mortal realm by powerful magic. Using the blood of Jidron the surviving archmages work a spell to sever the divine link to the world, ending the time of Madness. It is however several decades before things return to a semblance of normality.

Hmm, not entirely sure 4 pages in word counts as a 'basic' chronology, but there you go! What do people think?

[denthor]

Pathfinder setting.

Why have them go mad?

Have the cult of Lamashi the female CE god that has madness as her domain be the driving force.

Have Asmodes(Devil that rules the 9th layer of hell) as the major force that erected the shield. He would not go insane no matter what being the divine force that wrote the contract that will give him the final solution to victory.

He would rather this world be cut off than decend into maddness. Then work to correct the problem. Using lots of time and planning

This causes your players to choose between two very distasteful but opposing powers.


All others that do not coroparate well they are on there own limited resources(due to lack of planning). Asmo will work with most pathfinder gods. So help is on the way.!!? Also give your sheild a set time to expire and a key person missing or dead. This gives the group a mission.

Have the underdark races the major disorganized rulers. Corrupt looking for souls, gold and magic.

Magic limited most major items have been destroyed. One artifict or two remain per god. Lost in major battles hidden away small and need the blessing of the clergy. They can all talk with one side or the other to get it found.

Magic most knowledge of good creation has been lost. The evil remains. If they want to be good guys they still have to work with evil to accomplish. It has been stored for safety in long forgotten tombs of Paladins. When ready contact me by Private message if you want a describtion

[Great_Cthulhu]

I love the chronology!

[Avaris]

Anybody else got anything? I have a few more ideas, which I'll write up when I have the chance, but conscious of not wanting to completely takeover!

[Great_Cthulhu]

I am thinking that many of the monstrous races or aberrations could be new to the world, devised by the gods in their madness.

[Steckie]

The harvest this year is particularly prosperous, as the extra growth from Spring is still taking place. However certain civilisations more integrated with nature (stereotypical elves maybe, but could be some other group), start to realise that their homes and streets are becoming overrun within days if weeds are not dealt with, and start to glimpse strange figures moving through the undergrowth.

This little part drew my interest.
In a lot of settings Elves are the boringly good guardians of nature that cry if you chop down a tree.
But in this setting they could become completely mad themselves. The whole race starts worshipping the new Morteth and starts spreading her cause. They mostly ignore the elementals who they consider to be 'lesser' spawns of Morteth, but the treants and other monstruous plants and the monstruous beasts are protected by them.
In fact some of them even start gaining plantlike features. Roots coming from their toes and the bottom of their feet. Their skin becomes tough as bark. Cut off limbs heal really fast and after a while even start growing back. Sunlight energizes them.

In contrast with those elves, there's the Drow (Hooray for no Lolth!).
Living underground they don't share the same affinity with nature and sunlight, so they don't undergo the same changes.
They even violently oppose the change, considering it unnatural and an abomination compared to their pure form. The drow are a bit racist, considering themselves better than other races, but they're not evil.
They're one of the few races that have thrived since the madness.
Inside their underground caves the plants they used to grow start giving a better yield than before. Their mushrooms and fungi are sold to a lot of nations above ground that have trouble feeding themselves due to the changes.
The Drow are now an economic powerhouse and the increased birth rate in their caves has given them a boost in manpower and military might.

[Avaris]

This little part drew my interest.
In a lot of settings Elves are the boringly good guardians of nature that cry if you chop down a tree.
But in this setting they could become completely mad themselves. The whole race starts worshipping the new Morteth and starts spreading her cause. They mostly ignore the elementals who they consider to be 'lesser' spawns of Morteth, but the treants and other monstruous plants and the monstruous beasts are protected by them.
In fact some of them even start gaining plantlike features. Roots coming from their toes and the bottom of their feet. Their skin becomes tough as bark. Cut off limbs heal really fast and after a while even start growing back. Sunlight energizes them.

In contrast with those elves, there's the Drow (Hooray for no Lolth!).
Living underground they don't share the same affinity with nature and sunlight, so they don't undergo the same changes.
They even violently oppose the change, considering it unnatural and an abomination compared to their pure form. The drow are a bit racist, considering themselves better than other races, but they're not evil.
They're one of the few races that have thrived since the madness.
Inside their underground caves the plants they used to grow start giving a better yield than before. Their mushrooms and fungi are sold to a lot of nations above ground that have trouble feeding themselves due to the changes.
The Drow are now an economic powerhouse and the increased birth rate in their caves has given them a boost in manpower and military might.

I like it, and brings us nicely onto the next topic for consideration: Races!

So far, the things various people have written have suggested the following:

Elves
Corrupted to varying degrees by Morteth, likely the race that was most affected by the madness. Their civilisation lies in overgrown ruins. Conveniently, this removes one of the longest lived races with memories of the world before the madness, meaning as time goes on knowledge will be lost more quickly than if the standard elf civilisation still existed.

Drow are a subset of Elves, having been living underground during the madness and so safer than others of their race (do they still do so?). Have thrived in the post-madness world. Not evil, but presumably exiled from normal elf society for some reason (though for an interesting twist, may be self-imposed?). We should throw ideas around, as Steckie's idea makes them a major force. For personal preference, I would have them Drow in name rather than appearance, or at least not entirely white haired and dark skinned.

Dwarves
Major civilisation based around [Dwarven Switzerland], don't know if there are other countries or not. My instinct says not, but that there were smaller towns and cities established elsewhere in the world. I see them as having been previously dominated by the priestly class, so the madness was a time of upheaval, but dwarven common sense mostly won out.

Other races
Nothing else has really been established. Humans presumably are the main race. Need to establish which other non-monstrous races exist (including those such as Orcs/Goblins)

Random idea: Giants as wandering followers of Garkon?

[Sabeki]

Giants could work. As for Drow, what if they self imposed their exile because they thought the other elves were already crazy?

[Avaris]

Giants could work. As for Drow, what if they self imposed their exile because they thought the other elves were already crazy?

I've had an idea along those lines, though not quite self-imposed. The Elves could have been ruled by a royal line, blessed by Morteth, or possibly even by an avatar of Morteth (which sits nicely alongside the avatar/blessed of Aenyon ruling over the Dwarves). Certain noble families resented this, and so sought power in other ways by forming Trade Houses and building their influence, to the extent that they could challenge their leige. eventually they decided hat they could do a better job, and that wider elven society was in decline. The drow lost the resulting civil war, and were exiled from the elven homelands. With no obvious home on the surface, they went underground. After the madness, various trade houses have established themselves as loose alliances and confederacies, forcing surface powers to rely on them for support.

Maybe a good approach would be for each God to have had a pre-madness chosen sentient race, with an avatar/blessed/chosen like figure appointed to rule them? Humans could be established as the only race not linked to a god in this way, which is why they are most numerous.

Going through the Gods:
Skjalfor: (metallic) Dragons
Morteth: Elves
Aenyon: Dwarves
Hilya and Garan: don't know. Reckon they created Beholder's in the madness though
Leth: also unknown, and will probably be the hardest to match
Garkon: Giants?
Liliya: Halflings or Gnomes I think. Or maybe Kobolds
Jidron: could also be halflings or gnomes (tempted to say we only want one of the two in the setting? Though could give halflings to H&G, kobolds to liliya and gnomes to Jidron?)

[Steckie]

Hilya and Garan: don't know. Reckon they created Beholder's in the madness though

I like Lizardfolk for them.
Before the madness the females went into heat each spring and the mating season started, blessed by Hilya and Garan.
They had a very centralised and hierarchical state, the males were soldiers, craftsmen, farmers,.... While the females were all part of the priestly class with the highest female becoming the Avatar.
The higher up in the hierarchy, the more eggs a female is allowed to lay each spring.

After the madness Hilya and Garan completely lost interest in the Lizardfolk, who they have started to consider boring.
As a result they started to change biologically. The mating season completely disappeared, now some females are in heat the whole year while others have completely lost ability to go in heat.
This threw the nation into complete chaos. The priestly class is no more, the Lizardfolk split into several nations trying to dominate the others and promoting the way of life they made for themselves.
Nation 1: Led by female priests that are in heat the whole year, strongly resembles the old nation. While they can breed very quickly, they are troubled by weird creatures hatching from their eggs.
Nation 2: Led by females that can't go into heat anymore. They can still breed, but this causes tremendous pain for the female. They have a very low birthrate, but they don't have weird creatures hatching from their eggs.
Experimenting with alchemy to try to induce normal heat in the women. Basically, they're trying to discover female viagra :smallsmile:
Nation 3: Led by males that overthrew the female priests. They enslaved their females (both heated and unable to heat) and use them to keep their population high.
While military the most powerfull nation (they outnumber the other nations combined 2:1) they have a lot of troubles controlling their nation without the experience of the women.
So while they have the potential to be the strongest, their ineffectual leadership has made them the weakest.
Nation 4: Led by the number 2 of the old nation, she served the avatar but escaped her madness. She even killed her, or put her out of her misery as she claims.
They consist of females only (heated and unable to heat) and are trying to leave the chaos behind and go somewhere else.
To achieve this they're using alchemy as well to be able to interbreed with other races. They're trying to full water breathing into their race and get away into the ocean. Well, not they themselves but they believe their children will be safe there.
They've had a few successess recently while interbreeding with (Merfolk? Gillman? No idea what yet)

[Thunderfist12]

Ahem. What about stoics, a race of humans tainted by magic to resist the effects of the maddened love gods, by feeling no emotion at all. in other words, they have no alignments (and are unaffected by them), are immune to insanity, fear effects and spells or effects of the fear descriptor. NPC stoics are always indifferent. Stoics have but one drive: survival. Therefore, a stoic NPC or PC should roleplay based solely on logic and survival - this is the race for your metagamers! I'd suggest it for NPC's only though.

[Steckie]

? Humans could be established as the only race not linked to a god in this way, which is why they are most numerous.


Leth: also unknown, and will probably be the hardest to match
Perhaps humans fit for Leth? They're the most numerous, so more souls for him to claim.
I don't like humans not being linked to any of the gods as the only race. That makes humans look a bit too special compared to the other races.



Liliya: Halflings or Gnomes I think. Or maybe Kobolds

I like Gnomes for her, but not standard gnomes. That would be boring.
Why not have the pre-madness gnomes be wandering nomads living on several giant plains. Kinda like mongols they move around living on the land and on their livestock.
But, due to the luck (of bad luck) given by Lilliya a large part (30-40% ?)of the Gnomes were lycanthropes (werewolves, werebears,....).
Pre-madness gnomes considered these lycanthropes to be a sign of bad luck and used them as slaves. Or perhaps they were just the lower caste in their system. Definetly not priests.

The madness didn't change Lilliya much, but the gnomes were struck pretty hard. Suddenly the amount of lycanthropes went from 30-40% to 70-80%.
The 'older' lycanthropes (of the Original 30-40%) quickly became leaders among them due to them being in touch with their nature. Perhaps the new ones are afflicted lycanthropes?
They rose up, destroying the old system and killing most of the 'normal' gnomes.

Now the whole race consists of lycanthropes roaming the plains in tribes.
Ironically they're actually becoming more civilised now that they're all lycanthropes than before the madness. They're founding cities and are moving away from their nomadic lifestyle.
This has increased their need for food wich they buy from the Drow. They trade various items for it, but mostly they hire themselves out to the Drow.
So you often see a large group of lycantrhope gnomes fight alongside the Drow.

I don't see the Gnomes be one unified nation, but i'm not sure on how to divide them into nations.
Would a division along old clan borders be best?
Or would werewolves make their own city, werebears another city,....?

[Avaris]

Would Halflings work instead of Gnomes for the Liliyan Lycanthropes? I'm thinking Gnomes are the standard race that works best with Jidron... Either way, division on old tribal borders would make most sense, though need to be sure to distinguish them from the Skjalfor tribes (on which note, are we happy with Dragons as Skjalfor's chosen race, or would something more populous like Orcs be better?)

Oddly, I was thinking humans for Leth today as well! It makes sense, though not because of Leth wanting more souls: I don't see Leth as an evil 'I want to claim souls type of God. I don't think Leth (or the humans) would have had an obvious religious leader/avatar, meaning the humans would in general be less likely to be devoted to one particular god

I'm not sure on Lizardfolk for Hilya and Garan, mostly because of the implications for the wider setting: Lizardfolk imply a generally warmer climate than standard temperate settings, and they would need to be a significant presence in the world if they are the favoured race of H&G. On the other hand, a non-evil Lizardfolk civilisation has a lot of potential for cool stuff: I'm thinking ancient cities with lots of canals and stonework, founded by lizardfolk but lived in by people of all races. In a similar vein, could go with Yuan-ti, though probably want to keep (most of) the core races playable as PCs

Thinking back to Jidron, if Gnomes and/or halflings go to Liliyan, could have Hobgoblins? I like the idea of a less militaristic hobgoblin society, but ruled by structure and magic. Maybe even stretch to wider goblinoids? Still not sure if Gnomes would be better though...

@Thunderfist12: Interesting idea. I'm not sure about an actual race, but one of the impacts of the Madness could be people developing hereditary traits. I'm not a rules sort of person, but some sort of feat options could work? There could be a fair few different types available.

[Steckie]

I'm not sure on Lizardfolk for Hilya and Garan, mostly because of the implications for the wider setting: Lizardfolk imply a generally warmer climate than standard temperate settings, and they would need to be a significant presence in the world if they are the favoured race of H&G. On the other hand, a non-evil Lizardfolk civilisation has a lot of potential for cool stuff: I'm thinking ancient cities with lots of canals and stonework, founded by lizardfolk but lived in by people of all races. In a similar vein, could go with Yuan-ti, though probably want to keep (most of) the core races playable as PCs

Lizardfolk may imply a warmer setting, but that doesn't need to be the fact here. Normal tempereate temperatures should be just fine.
And when you say ancient cities with lots of canals and stonework, that just screams out Venice.
And when you say Venice, you say Italy, or the Roman Empire perhaps.
An Italian (or Roman, but preferably without the slavery) styled Lizardfolk civilization sounds pretty good.
They could live on a long and narrow peninsula like Italy, surrounded by a lot of islands. They build on the shores and make canals to have water access in the whole city. And they make bridges to nearby islands.
Lots of Gondola's. They use galleys for naval superiority, galleys are pretty strong in shallow water.




Thinking back to Jidron, if Gnomes and/or halflings go to Liliyan, could have Hobgoblins? I like the idea of a less militaristic hobgoblin society, but ruled by structure and magic. Maybe even stretch to wider goblinoids? Still not sure if Gnomes would be better though...

I'd go for either Gnomes or Halflings. Two small races (that i've Always found to be pretty similar) are a bit too much.
Hobgoblins are pretty awesome though, especially if they're going to be focused on magic.
Or, if you want goblinoids in general, Hobgoblins could be the mages that use their magic to stay in control of the other goblinoids.


(on which note, are we happy with Dragons as Skjalfor's chosen race, or would something more populous like Orcs be better?)

No idea on what to do with that.
Dragons might be a bit too powerfull, and i think it's difficult to make dragon tribes work.
Orcs could work, but orcs and tribes are already used quite a lot.
So i have no idea what's best here....

[zzuxon]

I really like this setting concept.
I think Psionics would mesh with this setting well. If it is in, it's existence should definitely be a result of the Madness. Perhaps when Jidron died, his Arcane spirit dispersed across the world, and binds to minds causing psionic abilities.

[Great_Cthulhu]

Wonderful thoughts so far. As for the Drow, I would make them albinoid in appearance since you do not exactly need skin pigmentation in a world entirely without sunlight. Their eyes might also be larger than a normal elf's.

As for the goblinoids, how about they originally were a magocracy and a pretty civilized one to boot, although a bit vicious. They were originally hobgoblins which magically bred goblins and other goblinoids (but not bugbears, those are madness-warped hobgoblins) for use as slaves. When Jidron died, their magic failed in many instances and their large nation crumbled. But, resourceful as they are, they recovered some of their ancient magics and also took on a more militaristic bent.
They did lose control of their goblin slaves, however, which scattered across the four winds and hate hobgoblins for having enslaved them.

Going with the previous idea, maybe some of them did develop psionic powers especially to no longer be reliant on magic.

[Avaris]

My personal issue with Albinoid Drow is the amount of time necessary to have such a change: we're talking many generations if magic isn't involved, and I don't see any reason why it would be (unless the Drow deliberately implemented the change themselves, but I don't see any reason why they would do so).

So, we seem to have the races pretty much tied down now. Each major race is associated with a God, but this does not mean every member of that race worshipped that god, nor that every worshipper was of that race. However, the Scion (head of the faith/high priest/avatar) was always of that race. To summarise and flesh out the current position:

Skjalfor - Dragons
Dragons are the chosen race of Skjalfor, and as befits the God of strength they were by far the mightiest of the mortal races pre-madness. They were always few in number, partially due to slow breeding rates and partly due to their constant tests of strength against each other, which were often fatal. Primitive peoples of all races were drawn to worship the dragons, and so Skjalfor, over their own patron deities: such obvious might was proof of Skjalfor's dominance over all others. During the madness these tribes, having previously been mostly ignored by their god, drew Skjalfor's attention and were called upon to raise up new champions to surpass those Dragons who had not truly earned their might. The greatest of these were raised up into new forms, but driven mad in the process and are now driven to hunt down the 'true' Dragons.

The Scion of Skjalfor was an Ancient Wyrm thought to be the oldest of her kind. She was torn apart at the height of the madness by the new dragons, although she killed several before they could take her down. No other has since assumed the mantle of Scion, or at least no-one had before the worship of Skjalfor was outlawed in all civilised realms.

Thinking over this again, we should perhaps loose the traditional chromatic/metallic split and instead go with a pre-madness / post madness split, with some chromatic and metallic on each side. Probably cut some colours, and maybe draw others from other sources if they are appropriate.

Morteth - Elves
The elves were formally divided into several Kingdoms, each tied to a particular region that was closely tied to a specific element. These kingdoms overlapped with the realms of other races: the Elves typically only viewed their actual settlements as 'theirs': all beings are born of Morteth after all. Several centuries before the madness, a faction of Elven traders began to resent the traditional monarchies, and sparked a civil war that resulted in their exile from the Elven lands. Of course, as the Elves viewed all land as part of one kingdom or another, this forced them to live underground, where they became the Drow.

The surface Elves embraced the madness, even as their civilisation fell into ruins and was consumed by Morteth's up-welling of life. It is said that some of them are gaining plantlike features; roots coming from their toes skin as tough as bark and even regenerative properties. However, encounters with these elves are few, and frequently violent. In contrast, the Drow have become a major force, and areone of the few races that have thrived since the madness. They are used to dealing with harsh conditions, and their mushrooms and fungi are sold to a lot of nations above ground that have trouble feeding themselves due to the changes. Several surface trade houses and alliances have been established, offering support and military might to the surface.

The Scion of Morteth was passed through the royal bloodline of the Elves, although it passed between the different kingdoms with every generation. In this way a balance between them was maintained, as each ruler would defer to the Scion, regardless of how small their realm was. It is assumed that the Scion still rules the surface Elves, although no-one outside their realm can know for sure.

Aenyon - Dwarves
The Dwarves established mighty fortresses all around the world, but only really controlled a single territory larger than a few miles across, [Dwarven Switzerland]. Their civilisation was dominated by the Priests and Paladins of Aenyon, and since the madness most of their holds have been sealed off to the outside world, with no-one knowing the fate of the Dwarves within. Activity appears to have increased as the decades go by however, and it seems likely that the world will see what the dwarves make of the new world very soon.

The Scion of Aenyon was appointed by the High Priest, and traditionally served as head of an order of Paladins. It was the Scion who executed the last High Priest during the madness, and it seems likely that they have ruled [Dwarven Switzerland] ever since, although their motives are unknown.

Hilya and Garan - Lizardfolk
The Lizardfolk were one of the most prominent civilisations before the madness, rightly pleased with their prosperous and regimented society that allowed all to engage in the pleasures of life and love. Their cities were (and in many cases still are) wonders of canals and temples, ruled over by the exclusively female priestly class.

The capital city of the Lizardfolk nation was the site of the Festival of Passion, and completely destroyed by it. Their nation split into several rival factions, and their formally ordered breeding cycle has fallen apart. The race is a shadow of what it once was.

The Scion of Hilya and Garan was the highest ranked female in the Lizardfolk nation. She was killed in the madness by a subordinate, who has ruled part of the nation ever since. The Usurper Queen's longevity has not gone unnoticed among her people, but she is a good ruler, and has publicly denounced the Gods, so the source of her long life is unknown.

Leth - Humans
Humans were one of the more prosperous races, and felt the touch of their God least in their daily lives. Without an obvious divine mandate they forged their own realms, which mostly rose and fell in a matter of centuries. The Madness was hard on them, but humans are creates of change, and their recovery is stronger than most.

It is unknown if there was ever a Scion of Leth. Certain legendary figures throughout history have been pointed to as touched by the God, but none ever claimed authority over the faith. The church has never been formally banned in most nations, but it has fallen out of favour, with few even remembering the God of secrets now.

Garkon - Giants
The children of Garkon wandered the land, never truly settling anywhere or leaving signs of their passing beyond large footprints in the ground. Their mobility was due to most areas being unable to peacefully feed even one giant for more than a few days, but they seemed happy with their lot. Many structures around civilised lands were raised by giant hands whose only payment was a hearty stew and a shelter from the rain for a few nights. Since the madness they have continued much as before, still wandering and helping the little folk where they can.

Garkon himself was typically recognised as the Scion of his faith, as he spend much time wandering the land alongside his people.

Liliya - Halflings (or maybe gnomes)
The people of Liliya wandered the plains, either on horseback or in great caravans. They trusted to luck to feed them and take them where they should be, generally gently mocking the civilisations of the other races but thankful for their friendship and protection when they needed it. However the curse of lycanthropy ran strong in their veins, with the afflicted being termed 'luck shorn', and required to have another halfling take responsibility for them, rather than being allowed any rights for themselves.

During the madness the lycanthropic halflings claim they regained their luck, with many of them learning the ability to control their shapeshifting. They rose against their guardians and slaughtered many of the non-lycanthropes. In the post-madness world they have divided into several loose nations, typically divided on family lines, and are starting to settle more. The lycanthropes have no nostalgia for their old way of life, and have seen the benefits of more established civilisation.

The Scion of Liliya was selected annually by a lottery of all non-lycanthropic Halflings, and was among the first killed when the lycanthropes rose up against their people. The position has not been refilled.

Jidron - Hobgoblins
The third nation-building race, alongside the humans and Lizardfolk. The Hobgoblins were a democratic Magocracy renowned for their feats of arcane engineering, creating entire races of goblins to fill specific roles in their society. They did not often suffer fools easily, and were prone to meeing perceived insult with overwhelming force. During the madness many of their magics failed, and the death of Jidron drove many of the strongest mages mad as his screams reverberated through their minds. The Hobgoblin military provided a sort of order in the chaos, backed up as they were by many magical items. The Goblins however escaped, and many Hobgoblins were warped beyond recognition. As with the lizardfolk, the Hobgoblins are a shadow of their former power, but unlike the Lizardfolk they rarely fight among themselves, instead presenting a unified face to the world.

The Scion of Jidron was elected by the Hobgoblin Archmagi. The last holder of the title was the leader of the cabal that ultimately severed the divine link to the world and ended the madness.