Wands of Speculation (50)

[SavageWombat]

For the rules nuts and power-gamers out there:

If you were Zz'dtri, what wands would you be carrying?

[Spacewolf]

I'd guess Sunburst for the yellow one, maybe Acid fog for the green not sure for the Red one. Something that would be useful against V specifically I would guess.

[Sylian]

I'd guess Sunburst for the yellow one, maybe Acid fog for the green not sure for the Red one. Something that would be useful against V specifically I would guess.Neither of those is possible, since the max level for a wand is 4.

[karkus]

Well, if Z were a sensible Wizard who utilizes Counterspelling, at least one would be Dispel Magic. Bestow Curse is almost always a good choice, due to its near-infinite flexibility. But apparently that's one of his barred spells anyway...

EDIT: Here are some pretty good 4th-level spells:

Dimensional Anchor
Lesser Globe of Invulnerability
Stoneskin
Black Tentacles
Dimension Door
Solid Fog
Resilient Sphere
Shout
Illusory Wall
Greater Invisibilty
Shadow Conjuration
Mass Enlarge Person

[prism6691]

Neither of those is possible, since the max level for a wand is 4.

We have seen a potion of Cure Critical Wounds (Miko v Belkar fight) so the limit of how high level a potion/wand can be as per rules seems invalid here.

[Porthos]

We can also remove any spell that is Enchantment or Necromancy, by elimination via the CL&G thread, as those spells were barred to Z. Unless, of course, Z had UMD without us knowing it.


We have seen a potion of Cure Critical Wounds (Miko v Belkar fight) so the limit of how high level a potion/wand can be as per rules seems invalid here.

Techincally a Master Alchemist (a PrC from Forgotten Realms) can make potions of 4th level or higher. Other PrCs might as well, though I don't know of them offhand.

[jogiff]

Cure light wounds (if I had good UMD) since there aren't healers in the party (other than Malack who isn't a regular member).

Lesser restoration (for the same reasons).

I'm guessing that the third one is going to be something that will be unique (we know from Snips, Snails and Dragon Tales that the Giant does allow custom made wands for spells that don't normally exist). I don't see CLW or lesser restoration being too plot critical (CLW will be nice now that Durkon can't spontaneously cast cure spells, but not critical) and I don't think that the Giant would have specifically drawn attention to the looting unless it was going to play a role later on.

I'm guessing that the third wand is something he and Nale specifically had to deal with Tarquin.

[137beth]

A common use for an improved familiar with hands (like an imp) is to take UMD and give your familiar wands, so they could be wands for Qarr...

A Wand of Haste on a familiar at ~level 15 is a good deal. It has a negligible cost to use once per combat encounter, and is much cheaper than using quickened metamagic rods with haste, or buying everyone speed weapons.

[NerdyKris]

I think they're most likely wands intended to replicate cleric spells, given that they were short a cleric.

[Kish]

I suspect wands of spells not on the class spell list of any Linear Guild member would have been on one of the two Linear Guild members with Use Magic Device as a class skill. That is, on Nale or on Sabine. Not on Zz'dtri.

[Thokk_Smash]

Yeah, they're probably Wizard spells since that's what Z could use them for without UMD. Unless Qarr has UMD ranks, but we can't be sure on that. Buffs that he wouldn't waste slots on but would be useful (Haste, like someone else mentioned) are the most likely suspects.

[jogiff]

I suspect wands of spells not on the class spell list of any Linear Guild member would have been on one of the two Linear Guild members with Use Magic Device as a class skill. That is, on Nale or on Sabine. Not on Zz'dtri.

Oh, wow. I didn't realize that UMD wasn't a class skill for wizards.

I can't really see what a wizard would want with a wand then. Nothing on the wizard spell list (at low levels) seems like it's worth having a wand for rather than simply preparing it.

I suppose it's possible that he just has some wands of acid splash and ray of frost just so he doesn't waste spell slots on those kinds of spells.

Then again, in Snips, Snails, and dragon Tales we see Belkar use a wand of "dispel clothing." Dispel clothing shouldn't logically go on the ranger spell list.

On the other hand, it did cost 40,000 gp (more than the most expensive wand on the srd), so it might have extra features.

But we know that the DnD rules aren't 100% followed in OotS, so maybe anyone can use a wand. Or at least a spellcaster.

[Kornaki]

I can't really see what a wizard would want with a wand then. Nothing on the wizard spell list (at low levels) seems like it's worth having a wand for rather than simply preparing it.

The fact that wizards don't have infinite spell slots isn't enough?

[Thokk_Smash]

Then again, in Snips, Snails, and dragon Tales we see Belkar use a wand of "dispel clothing." Dispel clothing shouldn't logically go on the ranger spell list.

That was in the strips that were in Dragon Magazine, and unless corroborated in the OOTS main strip is not canon; therefore, that was probably just for the joke, and should not be given much thought.

And a Wizard can't account for everything, and wands are a useful tool to let the them use spell slots for other things. In a small party, a wand of Haste is a good buff (gets 5 people), and a wand of Mage Armor is good for any wizard.

[EnragedFilia]

On the contrary:

mage armor/shield (the AC boost is only meaningful at low levels, but that's also when you don't have a lot of spell slots to work with)
true strike (highly situational, yet useful many times per encounter)
hypnotism (suffers from the low wand DC, but still potentially useful against low-level targets, and the short duration and easy breaking mechanic means having many castings available may prove useful)
glitterdust (again, low DC, but the negate invis portion allows no save and can be more useful than the blindness at times)
stoneskin (even more situational than any of the above, and if you can finagle a way to get ahold of the wand without paying for or expending the diamond dust it's a real cost-saver)

In general, anything that's sometimes useful but either too situational to warrant preparing most of the time or only useful if you can cast it over and over is potentially worth carrying a wand for, and especially if it doesn't suffer from having a low DC. As mentioned earlier, basic buffs like haste are a perfect example (useful in almost every encounter and no save involved), as is resist energy. Dispel magic was was mentioned earlier, and it can actually benefit from having a low DC by way of reliably setting off certain magic traps at a safe distance.

[jogiff]

The fact that wizards don't have infinite spell slots isn't enough?

Assume that Z is a 15th level wizard with and INT of 18 (a very conservative estimate) and a school specialization. Then he has six 0th, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th level spells each. Those spells would be cast at a lower CL and DC and require an extra move action if he uses a wand. Meanwhile, a 3rd level wand cost over 11k gp (a quarter of an average 15th level NPC's wealth) while a 4th level wand cost almost twice as much.

Nale's wand of enervation was a big deal and he was the leader of the group. Z is just a lowly member and has three wands, so I doubt that any of them are higher than 2nd level.

But I doubt that Z really uses 2nd level or lower spells very often since he has access to 8th level spells by now so he would probably be willing to use those 0th-2nd level spell slots for the few low level utility spells he needs (he has 20 spells in higher levels, enough to constantly cast for 2 straight minutes if he doesn't use those low level spells or the quicken spell feat), so those slots won't be needed.

It seems to me that he wouldn't need those spells unless they are the kind of spells that he would likely cast more than 5 times in a single day, and I can't really think of any of those kinds of spells on the wizard's spell list.

tl;dr: Z probably only uses those wands for low level spells and only for spells that he needs to cast many times in a single day. There aren't enough of those to justify three wands as far as I can tell so I think that they'll be used in a surprising way.

Really, except for weak conjuration spells that you use in order to feel useful in battle (without wasting spells), I can't think of any wands that Z would be carrying instead of Nale.

[jogiff]

That was in the strips that were in Dragon Magazine, and unless corroborated in the OOTS main strip is not canon; therefore, that was probably just for the joke, and should not be given much thought.

They made a reference to the online comic in that same installment of the Dragon comic. But even if they aren't the same continuity, Belkar was probably not higher than 14th level and probably doesn't have a charisma higher than 13 (no real evidence for that, but I feel it is generous for a character who never uses CHA) then his UMD would be at most +9 (assuming that he put a rank in UMD at ever level). I personally would not invest 40k in a wand that I only had a 50% chance of using.

Then again, Belkar is not know for his strong decision-making abilities.

[EnragedFilia]

Alternatively, those wands could be the equivalent of Roy's "delay poison" and "shillelagh oil", and will soon prompt Haley to ask "why did he even have these?"

[Thokk_Smash]

They made a reference to the online comic in that same installment of the Dragon comic. But even if they aren't the same continuity, Belkar was probably not higher than 14th level and probably doesn't have a charisma higher than 13 (no real evidence for that, but I feel it is generous for a character who never uses CHA) then his UMD would be at most +9 (assuming that he put a rank in UMD at ever level). I personally would not invest 40k in a wand that I only had a 50% chance of using.

Then again, Belkar is not know for his strong decision-making abilities.

That, and it could have been a homebrew wand that could be used by anyone (you mention the possibility yourself earlier). Either way, that one instance of wand usage is too vague (Wand of Dispel Clothing, really?) to really be of use in extrapolating how The Giant uses wands in the series. Unless shown concrete evidence otherwise, it's probably safe to assume that wand usage functions how the rules say they should function.

Why is Nale's Wand of Enervation a big deal? Sure, it was a surprise, but nothing big was made of it. At their level, a wand is not unexpected.

I think (my opinion) that you're underestimating how many lower-level spells are useful and that Z would be carrying. I don't think that 3rd and 4th level wands are out of the question for Z to have been carrying, and there are plenty of 3rd and 4th level spells that are situationally useful and would make good wands.

[Kornaki]

He has 6 3rd level spell slots, so if he needs to water breathing the whole party that's all his 3rd level spell slots for the day. Wouldn't it be easier to just have a wand of water breathing around than to blow an entire stack of spells on it when it's needed, and possibly have to wait a day to memorize them if you didn't know you were going to need them at dawn?

Other 3rd level spells have a similar restriction. In Dorukan's dungeon Z blew all his 3rd level slots on fly, and ended up standing there watching V cast spells at him (partially for comedic effect, but the point still stands). You don't need to fly the whole party in every dungeon, but when you do you sure are glad to have a wand of it around.

So yes, if they enter each dungeon well prepared for what they will be encountering then he should be able to manage his spell slots effectively, but if they show up to Dorukan's dungeon just to go 'oh crap, he DID have enough money for the water dungeon' they'll be pretty happy that Z brought a couple wands around.

[Sith_Happens]

I personally would not invest 40k in a wand that I only had a 50% chance of using.

Then again, Belkar is not know for his strong decision-making abilities.

Given that you probably aren't using Dispel Clothing in combat,* you can afford to spend an extra round or two getting it to work.


* Though it's probably a good way of turning a non-combat situation into a combat situation.:smalltongue:

[Shred-Bot]

They aren't real wands, Z just does a lot of Larry Gardener LARPing in his spare time.

[EnragedFilia]

So I guess they just make pretty red lights like poor little Larry's wand?

[littlebum2002]

In general, anything that's sometimes useful but either too situational to warrant preparing most of the time or only useful if you can cast it over and over


This.

Why waste spell slots on, say, haste and have to be conservative with your castings when you can just carry a wand and cast it every time you see an enemy?

Why prepare "hold portal" every day for the one time in your life you will ever need it?





Also, as I got rebuked in another thread for pointing out, wands are the most cost-effective method of healing

[137beth]

This.

Why waste spell slots on, say, haste and have to be conservative with your castings when you can just carry a wand and cast it every time you see an enemy?

Why prepare "hold portal" every day for the one time in your life you will ever need it?





Also, as I got rebuked in another thread for pointing out, potions are the most cost-effective method of healing

Meh, Hold Portal is better on a scroll--it is even more situational:smalltongue:

[GSFB]

Meanwhile, a 3rd level wand cost over 11k gp (a quarter of an average 15th level NPC's wealth) while a 4th level wand cost almost twice as much.

Keep in mind, it is possible that any member of the Linear Guild could have been outfitted with additional items by Tarquin before heading to the canyon. As long as Tarquin was getting his axe out of storage (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0822.html), he could have easily also brought out any number of other items for the group to use.

It is also possible that Z only just looted some of his wands from the bodies in the pyramid - if the pyramid had been staffed by generations of magic users led by an epic level caster for many years, it only makes sense some of the resources of the family would have been used over time to stockpile a variety of wands to be ready for emergency use.

[Guy Incognito]

On the contrary:

mage armor/shield (the AC boost is only meaningful at low levels, but that's also when you don't have a lot of spell slots to work with)
true strike (highly situational, yet useful many times per encounter)
hypnotism (suffers from the low wand DC, but still potentially useful against low-level targets, and the short duration and easy breaking mechanic means having many castings available may prove useful)
glitterdust (again, low DC, but the negate invis portion allows no save and can be more useful than the blindness at times)
stoneskin (even more situational than any of the above, and if you can finagle a way to get ahold of the wand without paying for or expending the diamond dust it's a real cost-saver)

In general, anything that's sometimes useful but either too situational to warrant preparing most of the time or only useful if you can cast it over and over is potentially worth carrying a wand for, and especially if it doesn't suffer from having a low DC. As mentioned earlier, basic buffs like haste are a perfect example (useful in almost every encounter and no save involved), as is resist energy. Dispel magic was was mentioned earlier, and it can actually benefit from having a low DC by way of reliably setting off certain magic traps at a safe distance.

You forgot Knock, as well. Don't mind me, Mr. Rogue, just rendering an entire skill irrelevant.

[EnragedFilia]

Also, as I got rebuked in another thread for pointing out, potions are the most cost-effective method of healing

By the numbers (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm):

base price of caster level 1 CLW item per charge in the form of a...
potion: 50 gp
scroll: 25 gp
wand: 15 gp (750gp for 50 charges)

In all cases, producing the item costs exactly half its base gp price plus some xp (2 for a potion, 1 for a scroll, 30 for a wand, which is .6 xp/charge).

The price difference is partially justified by the fact that
Of these, potions carry the significant advantage that they can be used by anyone with no caster level or UMD requirement, scrolls carry no particular advantage other than that they can be created for higher level spells in the first place, and wands carry the occasionally significant disadvantage that they can only be produced with 50 charges. This makes wands the "buy in bulk" option, so to speak, which makes them the most cost-effective for commonly used spells such as noncombat healing, basic buffs, and utility stuff like knock and feather fall, but conversely less useful for things like water breathing that you're unlikely to use 50 charges of over your entire lifetime. In that case, go with scrolls if you can cast them (natively or with UMD), or potions if you can't. And in the event of an actual underwater adventure, get a passive item (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#helmofUnderwaterAction) so you don't risk having to look up the drowning rules.

[littlebum2002]

Meh, Hold Portal is better on a scroll--it is even more situational:smalltongue:

Good point. I forgot about scrolls. I guess wands are just useful for the "cast continuously" spells.


[URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm"]By the numbers

Sorry, I meant to say "wands ate the most cost-effective way of healing". I edited the post to correct it. The joke was because I made a thread about Haley using wands the day before this strip came out.

[137beth]

What level spell is Speculation? It obviously is at most 4th level, since we have a Wand of Speculation. Considering some people seem to be able to use it at-will, I'd guess it is a cantrip (which are at-will in PF, and as a very common house rule in 3.5 and 3.0).

[SavageWombat]

What level spell is Speculation? It obviously is at most 4th level, since we have a Wand of Speculation. Considering some people seem to be able to use it at-will, I'd guess it is a cantrip (which are at-will in PF, and as a very common house rule in 3.5 and 3.0).

Speculation as a cantrip would leave no room for the lower-level version, Jump to Conclusions.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Speculation as a cantrip would leave no room for the lower-level version, Jump to Conclusions.

Jump to Conclusions is not a spell, it is a class feature of Self-righteous Monk|Paladins (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0406.html).

Grey Wolf

[littlebum2002]

Speculation as a cantrip would leave no room for the lower-level version, Jump to Conclusions.

Let me guess: The Material Component for this spell is a mat, correct?

[Snails]

Obviously the majority of these would not make much sense for Z to carry, but I thought it might be worth presenting some common ideas:

Standard wands for the practical adventuring wizard:
Invisibility -- some days you want to cast over and over again on the entire party
Fly -- some days you want to cast on the entire party
Glitterdust -- such a useful spell that a lower Save DC and caster level hardly matters
Mirror Image --
Protection from Evil (or Good) -- because it is important when up against a vampire, phost, or Magic Jar to protect your entire party from mind control (and you may need to cast this over and over, to be sure)
Web -- such a useful spell area control spell that a lower Save DC and caster level hardly matters
Mage Armor -- cheap and useful, sometimes your party needs the help against incorporeal attacks
Slow -- because even it reliably annihilates Haste, and as area effecting spell the weaker DC is not so bad
Haste -- 5 rounds is often good enough
Magic Missile (at 7th or 9th level caster) -- reliable damage at a reasonable price point, when some smartass is going to try and disrupt your spellcasting
Shrink Item -- for those optimistic about your loot prospects, but do not like to linger

[Fish]

There is a very real possibility that some or all of these wands are nothing but gags. There are three, and comedy is usually done in threes.

:haley: Oooh, a wand of silence!
:belkar: [can't talk]

Or ...

:haley: I got a wand of fireball!
:elan: I got a wand of lightning!
:belkar: Mine was cursed. :mad:

If I had to go with utility, I would lean toward restoration. They do have a succubus in the party, and not everybody drinks potions like Nale.

[EnragedFilia]

If they're divine wands then Z shouldn't be carrying them, unless he has lots of UMD for some strange reason.

Command undead is another good one (mindless targets get no save and obey anything) except that Z allegedly has necromancy barred.

[Fish]

Just because Z is carrying them doesn't mean that must be only because Z uses them. He just may be the one with the Bag of Holding.

[AgentofOdd]

If they're divine wands then Z shouldn't be carrying them, unless he has lots of UMD for some strange reason.Since I don't play D&D, there's a good chance I'm getting this wrong, but wouldn't Z have a 10% chance to activate wands (and a 5% chance of not being able to use it for 24 hours) with just 1 rank in UMD? That doesn't sound terrible if you're using it outside of combat.

EDIT: Btw I'd be grateful if someone could explain what the "Cha" in "Use Magic Device (Cha; Trained Only)" means. I know it means charisma, but how does that relate to UMD?

[Kish]

It means that a Use Magic Device check involves rolling a d20 and adding your Charisma modifier and your skill rank.

Every skill depends on an ability score. Xykon is unlikely to have put points in Diplomacy for a long time, if ever, but if he ever chose to be diplomatic, he'd probably succeed anyway just on his sky-high Charisma modifier; Vaarsuvius may have few or no skill points in Search, but s/he still has a fair chance of finding something if s/he searches, because Search uses Intelligence.

[EnragedFilia]

1. If they were in a bag of holding they'd still be in the bag and not just lying on his corpse like that.

2. There's no good reason to keep wands in a bag of holding during a dungeon crawl; they don't weigh anything anyway and pulling the one you want to use out of the bag is an extra action.

3. Since Nale does demonstrably have UMD ranks (and he and Z clearly trusted each other), it would make more sense for him to be carrying the divine wands and Z carrying the arcane wands, except possibly for duplicates and/or things that would be useful if they got separated.

4. Yes, I did forget that wand usage is a fixed UMD DC, unlike scroll usage (I only play DDO, where they both depend on CL for various reasons). He would only need 1 rank of UMD to semi-effectively use divine wands out of combat, but that shouldn't be relevant in most cases.

[AgentofOdd]

Ah. Thanks for the answer Kish. So, if I understand correctly, if Z had 1 point in UMD and 12 charisma, he'll get a +1 to his skill check. Meaning, if he wanted to activate a divine wand (DC 20) he'll need to roll a 18 or better.

Conversely, if Z had 1 point in UMD, and 9 charisma he'll need to roll a 20 to use a divine wand since he has a -1 modifier this time.

[Secris]

I'm pretty sure, based on past experience, that jumping to conclusions is actually a supernaturally ability for the forumite prestige class as well.

[3WhiteFox3]

Note that the Giant has himself stated what he prefers to use wands for...


Because potions can be used by anyone, anywhere, even if Haley gets knocked out. They can be traded to Elan or Roy or V for them to carry when the party is inevitably split during combat.

That makes them more versatile tactically AND more flexible story-wise. And they're also more recognizable to non-D&D players. And wand are more visually appropriate to offensive spells that you aim at someone. And I don't care at all about what the most cost-efficient option by the rules is anyway.

Also remember, that characters in OOTS do not usually optimize much. (Though Zz'dtri was probably one of the most effective characters in the game.) I would expect the wands to be things that work well as offensive weapons for visual and storytelling purposes. Note that offensive spells will work well for the narrative if V gets another extended hiatus from the party.

My Guesses:
Green - Ray of enfeeblement
Red - Scorching Ray (perhaps with a higher caster level for the extra rays)
Yellow - Not sure, maybe Soundburst? Perhaps something with electricity damage?

[Fish]

1. If they were in a bag of holding they'd still be in the bag...

2. There's no good reason to keep wands in a bag of holding during a dungeon crawl...

3. Since Nale does demonstrably have UMD ranks...

4. Yes, I did forget that wand usage is a fixed UMD DC...
You keep looking at everything through the lens of "perfect D&D optimization." Look at it through the lens of "it's a story." The wands may be on Z's body because a) they do spells the Linear Guild needed recently, b) Rich knew the Order was going to need them, c) Rich wanted to show that Nale did not have them, or all of the above. My comment about the Bag of Holding wasn't to engage in a tactical discussion but to illuminate a totally mundane reason why it might be this way. If there were a Bag of Holding, or a wand case or a backpack or something, would Rich waste several panels drawing it, opening it, looking inside?

A) Recently Nale and Zz'dtri were hiding in Tarquin's empire under his nose, casting divination spells to locate Windy Canyon. Perhaps the wands were supposed to help with this. Also, Z was hiding under an illusion spell. Is one of the wands an illusion-generating magic? Or it could be something simple: Z could walk around freely in his disguise, but Nale could not (he was a wanted man). Z had them because it was Z who went to the shop and bought them.

B) Since Vaarsuvius is out for another 10-15 minutes of story time, Rich may intend the wands to bridge the power gap slightly. (Not that wands will defeat that Level 17+ wizard over there, but a couple destructive spells could take out the army guys.) Failing that, they may simply be a gag: the Order knows they're short on spell power, and may use the wands in desperation to comic effect.

C) Nale must be virtually out of spells. However, we know he bought magic items, and he has used wands before. Putting the wands on Z's body may simply be a way to show that Nale is tapped out. No backup resources. Why is Z carrying them? Because that was part of the ambush plan against Elan and Vaarsuvius; or it was a contingency plan against the next meeting with Vaarsuvius. (V did say sonething about "being prepared for everything." It could be a spell like Protection from Normal Missiles.)

All of the Above: the next stage of the quest is finding Kraagor's Gate. Nale has handy wands -- and if the wands are for locating stuff, the Order could use them to find their way. Without them, Nale is lost.

So I wouldn't put all my eggs in the "ideal D&D tactic" basket. The possibilities are many and not necessarily susceptible to logic. Story trumps rules: Haley had wagons in her Bag and she didn't even have ranks in Ride!

[137beth]

I'm pretty sure, based on past experience, that jumping to conclusions is actually a supernaturally ability for the forumite prestige class as well.

Whoah, forumite is a prestige class now? I thought there was already a forumite base class that got jumping to conclusions as an Extraordinary ability! I'm sure I saw someone using Jump to Conclusions inside an anti-magic zone, and I don't think it was a multi-classer.

[EnragedFilia]

You keep looking at everything through the lens of "perfect D&D optimization." Look at it through the lens of "it's a story." The wands may be on Z's body because a) they do spells the Linear Guild needed recently, b) Rich knew the Order was going to need them, c) Rich wanted to show that Nale did not have them, or all of the above. My comment about the Bag of Holding wasn't to engage in a tactical discussion but to illuminate a totally mundane reason why it might be this way. If there were a Bag of Holding, or a wand case or a backpack or something, would Rich waste several panels drawing it, opening it, looking inside?

A) Recently Nale and Zz'dtri were hiding in Tarquin's empire under his nose, casting divination spells to locate Windy Canyon. Perhaps the wands were supposed to help with this. Also, Z was hiding under an illusion spell. Is one of the wands an illusion-generating magic? Or it could be something simple: Z could walk around freely in his disguise, but Nale could not (he was a wanted man). Z had them because it was Z who went to the shop and bought them.

B) Since Vaarsuvius is out for another 10-15 minutes of story time, Rich may intend the wands to bridge the power gap slightly. (Not that wands will defeat that Level 17+ wizard over there, but a couple destructive spells could take out the army guys.) Failing that, they may simply be a gag: the Order knows they're short on spell power, and may use the wands in desperation to comic effect.

C) Nale must be virtually out of spells. However, we know he bought magic items, and he has used wands before. Putting the wands on Z's body may simply be a way to show that Nale is tapped out. No backup resources. Why is Z carrying them? Because that was part of the ambush plan against Elan and Vaarsuvius; or it was a contingency plan against the next meeting with Vaarsuvius. (V did say sonething about "being prepared for everything." It could be a spell like Protection from Normal Missiles.)

All of the Above: the next stage of the quest is finding Kraagor's Gate. Nale has handy wands -- and if the wands are for locating stuff, the Order could use them to find their way. Without them, Nale is lost.

So I wouldn't put all my eggs in the "ideal D&D tactic" basket. The possibilities are many and not necessarily susceptible to logic. Story trumps rules: Haley had wagons in her Bag and she didn't even have ranks in Ride!

As far as I can tell, all my arguments are predicated upon story considerations rather than solely upon "optimization":

A - Nale is selfish (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0255.html) and shortsighted and would therefore try to keep the team's best resources for himself (regardless of who actually visited the magic shop most recently), giving Z the duplicates or things that would be useless in his own hands.

B - Since the Order's missing team member is an arcane caster, having arcane wands fall into the order's lap would be a more fitting way of bridging that power gap than divine wands.

C - There's no particular storytelling reason for Nale to be "virtually out of spells". In fact, it would be more dramatically appropriate for him to still have significant resources of his own (even though that's currently doubtful for various reasons) in order for him to pose a potential threat some time in the foreseeable future (even though that's currently doubtful for even more reasons).

The way I see it, discussions of tactics can fall under both the "story" and "rules" headings at the same time. A hypothetical tactical decision doesn't suddenly become "perfect optimization" just because it takes the rules into account.

[Mike Havran]

I don't think any of the wands was for healing, since Nale and Z would have used it before attacking Malack, just in case.