Does Arcane Strike work in an Antimagic Field?

[Blas_de_Lezo]

Arcane Strike is a feat, not a spell neither SLA nor Supernatural. Could you use then Arcane Strike inside an Antimagic Field?

[AmberVael]

By RAW, I'd say it does work in antimagic. Despite implying that you're enhancing your attacks with a magical force, it isn't anything magical mechanically.

That being said, if you tried it in my game I might smack you with something. :smalltongue:

(Admittedly I would never use antimagic in the first place).

[Rebel7284]

(Admittedly I would never use antimagic in the first place).

Why not? It seems like a fairly nice balancing factor to occasionally encounter antimagic. Do you never have undead/constructs/plants/oozes while there is a rogue in the party?

[SolioFebalas]

Why not? It seems like a fairly nice balancing factor to occasionally encounter antimagic. Do you never have undead/constructs/plants/oozes while there is a rogue in the party?

So what do they prevent a rogue? Penetrating strike ACF or weapon crystals and everything goes like clockwork even without AMF.

[Psyren]

So what do they prevent a rogue? Penetrating strike ACF or weapon crystals and everything goes like clockwork even without AMF.

IIRC, those don't help you vs. oozes and elementals.

[Eldariel]

Why not? It seems like a fairly nice balancing factor to occasionally encounter antimagic. Do you never have undead/constructs/plants/oozes while there is a rogue in the party?

Anti-Magic is a huge hassle since everyone needs to calculate everything without magic. The more magic items the harder it gets. Then there is weird stuff you need to pay attention to like the fact that Spirit Totem Barbarian's abilities are Supernatural so they don't work in AMF while the aforementioned Arcane Strike inexplicably does by RAW (though I imagine anyone would houserule that).

And then you have Devotion feats and all that, and any and all buffs, all-day or combat buffs that had been active that would become inactive. Somebody might die without noticing it 'cause their HP boost from Con disappears, all skills will probably have varying degrees of separate values and so on. Then there's the whole "Attack into AMF from outside AMF, what happens?" and "I'm partially in AMF, what happens?" Mind, there's a RAW answer to both but they're kinda silly.


Anti-Magic is very powerful and indeed, casters can make great use of it (Widened AMF with Extraordinary Spell Aim or Mastery of Shaping to exclude yourself is a superb protection from martials who cannot fly on their own power, though since AMF doesn't break line-of-effect it's useless against most mages unless you walk next to them and they fail to protect themselves somehow), but it is a huge hassle unless you basically have a separate non-magical character sheet and the biggest losing party is melee warriors, who tend to be very reliant on magic items but unable to use those in AMF and unable to do anything effective at range (unlike mages or archers).

Dead Magic, Dispelling and Disjunction have similar problems to varying degrees. Of course, they're big enough parts of established settings that I'd be vary to shy away from them entirely but if I were to include AMFs/Dead Magic/Wild Magic in the game I'd be sure to let the players know beforehand and make sure none of them is playing a melee Fighter. And make some clear houserules about how partially being in AMF or attacking into or out from an AMF works.

[Rebel7284]

So what do they prevent a rogue? Penetrating strike ACF or weapon crystals and everything goes like clockwork even without AMF.

Yes rogues have some ways to get around immunity to sneak attack. Wizards also have some ways to get around AMF (tinfoil hat, invoke magic, martial study on the EX teleport maneuvers.) That wasn't really my point. I want to understand why such a categorical dismissal of antimagic.


== wall of text ==

Ok so bookkeeping is the main concern for you. Got it.

[Psyren]

And make some clear houserules about how partially being in AMF or attacking into or out from an AMF works.

The RAW in these cases seems clear enough, at least to me.

[AmberVael]

Why not? It seems like a fairly nice balancing factor to occasionally encounter antimagic. Do you never have undead/constructs/plants/oozes while there is a rogue in the party?

Antimagic is a pain. Its important to note that I object to it less on the basis of the specific Antimagic Field spell and more in the way I see it utilized in games at large, which is not always restricted to how that particular spell works (namely, being focused on a single entity in fairly limited area).

First, it's most decidedly not a balancing factor. Against some characters, often ironically the main casters, it does almost nothing. Against others (who are, infuriatingly enough, the more balanced caster classes or people relying on magic items) dead magic can completely shut them down. Shutting down all of someone's major features simply isn't balance, especially when the classes are on a sane mechanical level. A rogue might lose sneak attack against undead, but they still have their skills and probably the ability to stab things (albeit in a less damaging manner). A warlock in antimagic is a commoner with frills.

Furthermore, it shuts down all magic items and spells in the area, which is frankly just really annoying. Even if you're something like a Warblade who can perform decently within it, it means recalculating the numbers of all your effects, which gets more and more time consuming the higher level you go (and if you're facing antimagic, you're probably higher level).

Lastly? Its an uncreative and lame mechanic. Countering specific spells? Okay. Clashing opposite magics that cancel each other out, like light and dark magic? Fine. But just saying "lol magic doesn't exist here" is boring. It is just a way to hand wave magic away when someone is incapable of thinking of how to handle it.

[Eldariel]

The RAW in these cases seems clear enough, at least to me.

Sorry; I meant to mention size increases, but seem to have not done so. My biggest problem with the RAW is if you're magically increased in size; unless you're wholly in the AMF you don't actually lose the benefits of the size boost except if attacking into the AMF.

Which makes anyone who casts Giant Size basically immune to AMF since it's extremely difficult to cover a whole Colossal creature in anti-magic of any kind. Also, if you've got physical enhancements you can actually perform Unarmed Strikes into an AMF by RAW with those physical enhancements; only magic weapon properties are lost.

[Psyren]

I can see where extreme size changes might necessitate some clarification, but Huge+ PCs are honestly rare enough that they wouldn't really factor into my decision to use AMFs or not.

[Eldariel]

I can see where extreme size changes might necessitate some clarification, but Huge+ PCs are honestly rare enough that they wouldn't really factor into my decision to use AMFs or not.

Well, Polymorph and Druids do bring it into play fairly early if they're being used.

[Vaz]

Yes rogues have some ways to get around immunity to sneak attack. Wizards also have some ways to get around AMF (tinfoil hat, invoke magic, martial study on the EX teleport maneuvers.) That wasn't really my point. I want to understand why such a categorical dismissal of antimagic.

This is a "Nope"

They are Supernatural.

[Rebel7284]

This is a "Nope"

They are Supernatural.

Tome of battle, page 40

Extraordinary or Supernatural Abilities:
Martial maneuvers and stances are never spells or spell-like abilities.
Unless the description of the specific maneuver or stance
says otherwise, treat it as an extraordinary ability. Thus,
these abilities work just fine in an antimagic field
or a dead magic zone. A maneuver or stance can’t be dispelled or
counterspelled, and initiating one does not provoke attacks
of opportunity.
If a maneuver is overtly magical or otherwise uses a super-
natural power source, it is noted as a supernatural ability in its
description. In this case, the maneuver obeys all the standard
rules for supernatural abilities.

Shadow Jaunt is on page 79 and says nothing about being supernatural.