Best way to build a Cleric Crossbow-Archer.

[tadkins]

(Made a similar post the other day but got no responses, I figured it was because it was vague and because I had an outside link that people may have been reluctant to click.)

Going to be finding myself playing in a 3 person group soon, which each of us filling a certain role with existing classes that were customized a bit to fit the story. After working with my DM on the character concept, this is the class we've come up with.

Infiltrator
Often, righteousness and purity are not enough to root out the enemies of the faith. Serving the church as agents, infiltrators use guile and deception to research emerging threats, chase down their enemies, support their allies, and eliminate enemies of their faith in places where a paladin's blunt approach would not be effective.
Hit Die: d6
Skills: 6 + Int Modifier
Class Skill List: Bluff, Climb, Craft, Diplomacy, Disguise, Heal, Intimidate, Knowledge (all), Perception, Profession, Ride, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Stealth, Survival, Swim
Proficiencies: Light armor, Simple Weapons, Favored Weapon of Diety, hand crossbow, longbow, repeating crossbow, shortbow.

While it's a 3.5 game officially, we incorporated some Pathfinder elements, namely certain skills, Channel Energy and the Inquisitor's Judgments. I also get full cleric spellcasting, the Knowledge domain, and one domain of my choice (going with Inquisition domain).

Basically, the concept I had in mind was sort of a Van Helsing-type character who hunts the evil monsters of the night. Except he's much smaller. Going with a LG Whisper Gnome with St. Cuthbert as his patron deity, and is affiliated with said church in the storyline. As I'm in the party to fill the divine casting role, I opted to go with a stealthy cleric-type character who was good with a crossbow, and this is the class we came up with.

My apologies for the rambling there. Anyhow, as this is my first archer-type character, I'm looking for some advice on how to progress in terms of feats. I understand that my first two feats will have to be Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot by default. Also considering trading my Knowledge Domain for Devotion to help in that regard. I figure that my next feats will be Zen Archery (so I can focus more on WIS than DEX), and I'm thinking about getting both Darkstalker to help with the stealthiness, and perhaps Hand Crossbow Focus. Not sure what I'll be doing past that.

Does that sound like a good path, or should I consider another way?

Edit: One last thing I could use some advice on! One of the house rules we're going with is as follows...

Your character begins the game with one Heirloom item. This item can be a weapon, piece of armor, or accessory. You may spend up to 1/2 of your starting gold on this item and it may include anything from the Magic Items Compendium (If you require the PDF, I have it). This item may be upgraded throughout the campaign using the rules listed in the back of the Magic Items Compendium.

I'm thinking the heirloom item will be a crossbow of some kind. As I'm not sure what kind of crossbows are good, does anyone have a suggestion for this as well?

[Captnq]

Well, let us first go with the crossbow. What sort do you wish to use?

Exotic
CROSSBOW, AQUATIC
CROSSBOW, GREAT
CROSSBOW, HAND
CROSSBOW, HAND DOUBLE
CROSSBOW, HEAVY DOUBLE
CROSSBOW, HEAVY REPEATING
CROSSBOW, LIGHT DOUBLE
CROSSBOW, LIGHT REPEATING
CROSSBOW, WINCH


Simple

CROSSBOW, GRAPPLE-FIRING
CROSSBOW, HEAVY
CROSSBOW, LIGHT


However, I am rather partial to the Ice Chucker. As described, you can substitute Javelins instead of ice, so you can still carry around that 1d12 ranged damage, AND use reusable ammunition that you can put all sorts of fun things on. True, the rang sucks, but that's the trade off.

If you aren't going with the weird, may I suggest you go with a light ballista. If you have it made out of darkwood, it should be light enough to carry around on a Floating disk. the disk is 5', the light ballista is 5 feet. Loading a light ballista requires two full-round actions. Self-loading does away with one full-round of loading time. Quick Loading, which works on crossbows, which a ballista is, reduces reload time to a move action, if you reduce the over all loading time down to 1 full-round.

Then you get to add fund things like Starburst and Necromatic. making the Floating disk permanent should only be 2,000 gp.

But okay, your DM won't let you take a BFG into the dungeon. It happens. So you take a Quick Loading Great Crossbow. 2d8 once a round is nice. Or are you assuming to have a high BAB? You are a cleric. I'm not expecting that you're gonna get multiple attacks any time soon. A quick loading light crossbow is 1d8 and you have to take a full round action to fire it multiple times. Don't fall for this trick. Quick Loading Great Crossbow is the way to go.

However, since this is your thing, you might wish to pick up a grapple-firing crossbow. It's a simple weapon. it only does 1d3, but it also shoots 100' of rope. If you have a wizard friend with animate rope, this becomes an awesome combination.

Now you got your crossbow. Now you need ammo. Well, officially you're stuck with Tumbling Bolts. Half the range, but +2 damage. When you got 120' of range, who cares if it's halved? And Quick Loading holds 100 bolts in an extra dimensional space. You can throw some normal bolts in there for the fun of it.

Oh yeah, forgot to mention this. Don't be fooled into buying all your ammunition in lots of fifty. By them in lots of five. Much cheaper and with you able to pick and choose which bolt to shoot, you can cycle through them as you wish. White Dragon? Fire bolts. Wind Wall? Force Bolts. Mix and match.
Accessories
CROSSBOW SIGHT, GNOME - Really helps hitting those targets out past the second range increment.
WEAPON CAPSULE RETAINER [Triple] - Put all sorts of strange things on your bolts. Holds up to three capsules. Convince your DM to let you load other things. I recommend quickflame, quickfrost, and quickspark.
OIL, BLISTER - Blister oil is the bomb. 15 gp and extra damage that works on 1d6 bolts. None of that self injury crap when you try and use poison.

And if you can sucker your DM into allowing it, a Noxious Smokestick fired from a crossbow will ruin anyone's day.

And finally, that most important of Crossbow accessories, the underslung Crossbow Bayonet (Sword). Nothing says "I have seen the movie Scarface WAY TOO MUCH." Like having 6 feet of piercing weapon jutting out from under your Gigantic Crossbow. 1d8 of simple, one-handed melee weapon that can set to receive a charge for use when anyone is stupid enough to get up in your grill. Just place the butt of the crossbow stock in your crotch and proudly proclaim: SAY HELLO TO MY LITTLE FRIEND!

Oh, and since it's one-handed, you can have a dwarven axe-buckler in your off hand so you can TWF. Titantic Crossbow/Sword in one hand, axe-shield in the other. Show those bastards what a dwarf is made of.

Extrapolated Weapon Special Abilities
Now, here's some really wacky things. The Deathwand Crossbow. When you work out the WSA from this A&EG 3.0 weapon, it works out to be this:

Deathwand

- ARMS AND EQUIPMENT GUIDE (3.0)
[DEATHWAND CROSSBOW]
Price: 2,000 gp
Property: Crossbow
Caster Level: 11th
Aura: Moderate (DC 22) evocation
Activation: Standard
The crossbow can have up to two wands loaded into the crossbow on either side of the main stock. The wielder of a deathwand crossbow is considered to be holding either of the wands when she wields the crossbow, and she can use either wand normally without letting go of the crossbow. Removing or stowing a wand in the crossbow takes a move equivalent action. If the crossbow is destroyed, any wands it holds are also destroyed.


Yup. 2,000 gp and you can load two wands in your crossbow. See if your DM will approve.

Extrapolating out the perks from a Dwarven Mauler works out as the following WSA:

DWARVEN MAULER

- ARMS AND EQUIPMENT GUIDE (3.0)
[DWARVEN MAULER CROSSBOW]
Price: +1 bonus
Property: Crossbow
Caster Level: 7th
Aura: Moderate (DC 18) evocation
Activation: —
The weapon can be increased one size class without penalty. Load time does not increase. Furthermore, against all giants and goblinoids, the dwarven mauler’s critical multiplier is increased to x4.
Construction: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, creator must be a dwarf


Increase the size class of your great crossbow by one for a mere +1 WSA bonus? Awesome. If you can use that on a light ballista, you got yourself one scary BFG. Oh, if you'd like ramp up your quick loading Great Crossbow or your self-loading/quickloading light ballista, here try and get approval for this extrapolated WSA.

RELOADING

- MINIATURES HANDBOOK (3.5)
[CROSSBOW OF RELOADING]
Price: 4,000 gp
Property: Crossbow
Caster Level: 7th
Aura: Moderate (DC 18) evocation
Activation: —
Reloading this weapon is a free action instead of a move action. If the crossbow takes less than, or more then a move action to reload, this WSA becomes dormant. It only changes move action to free action for the purpose of reloading.
Construction: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, haste
Editor: Different then quick loading or self-loading, I’m not entirely sure if it was replaced by either of those or if it should be considered it’s own WSA. That said, I think I would err on the side of including it and allow a DM to disallow it, then to make the choice for them.


NOW you can cut loose, because loading is a free action. Now this next one might not be so useful, but I'll include it all the same.

SORCERER HAND

- ARMS AND EQUIPMENT GUIDE (3.0)
[SORCERER’S HAND]
Price: +1 Bonus
Property: Crossbow
Caster Level: 11th
Aura: Moderate (DC 20) evocation
Activation: —
This crossbow is a potent tool for casting ray spells. If held and used as an additional arcane focus when casting a ray spell, the spell’s effective caster level is increased by 1. This increase affects all aspects of the spell, including damage, range, and duration. Furthermore, the sorcerer’s hand grants it’s enhancement bonus and weapon special abilities on attack rolls for rays.
Construction: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, any ray spell
Editor: So, you are telling me for a +1 WSA, I can increase my ray spell’s Caster Level and add a +2 enhance bonus? Or it it adding the enhance bonus from the weapon? If the weapon was +1, would I only have a +1 enhance bonus on my ray spell? What if I put other WSA in the crossbow? If I made it an acidic crossbow, would all my ray spells do an extra +1d6 acid damage? I hate to say it, Oh yes it does appear that way. But before you drool over this, let me point out the implications to those DMs out there.
Editor (Rules Abuse): First of all I’m spending 2,000 gp to make this a deathwand crossbow. Two wands with ray spells should make sure I never run out of ammo. Next I’m reducing this to +1 to save on money. Then I’m adding exit wound. Note, exit wound says it affects the missile, not arrow, so it should apply to the ray spell. True, it is a +3 WSA, but for the ability to hit someone, go through them to the next target behind them and roll again at +4 difficulty? Worth. Every. Copper. Next WSA is splitting. Another +3 WSA, but it doubles every missile. Even a scorching ray becomes a blizzard of death. Tack on other WSAs as you wish that might help a specific ray spell, if you wish to specialize in a given spell. Oh. And it still shoots bolts. So, while it appears to add the whole package, you might want to limit it to enhancement bonus only.


Of course you need to cast a great deal of ray spells for that to be useful, but hey, to each his own build.

Normal Weapon Special Abilities
Eager is a good choice, giving you extra damage in the suprize round. Not to mention drawing a crossbow larger then you as a free action is cool.

Splitting is expensive, but doubling damage is never bad.

All the energy damage WSAs, Flaming, Frost, Blah Blah...

Assassination will allow you to get away with using poison.

Exit wound is TOTALLY a must. for only +2 bonus? Some may even say it is broken.

Spellblade, of course. Every weapon could use a spellblade. And you can put spellblade on the crossbow AND the Bayonet. So cover your ass against your favorate Save-or-Sucks.

Force lets you get around wind wall. Kinda steep at +2 bonus, however.

Now, if you have the ability, pick up some radiant holding Ammunition. Now just for your giant crossbow, but for the grapple-firing crossbow. Radiant holding ammunition is a ranged touch attack. You'll never miss.


Oh, and here's something that is JUST BROKEN.

So, your crossbow bayonet sword is like a spear. That's in the description. Changeling for 2,000 gp is only usable in a spear. So you get to turn your crossbow bayonet into a longspear for 10' reach when you need it. Sweet, huh? As a DM, I would never allow it, but hey, shoot for the moon, if you miss, you will drop out the heavens and burn up in re-entry where your ashes will drift until they are washed into the sea by rainfall.

It will be as if you never existed.

Well, that's my advice for crossbows. If you need more ideas, just pop on over to M/M and check out the handbooks. I just updated my Weapon Handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=9053.msg145231#msg145231). Should be chock full of goodies.

[gorfnab]

Take one level of Fighter with the Targeteer ACF (Dragon #310). This nets you two exotic ranged weapon proficiencies (in this case Hand Crossbow and Great Crossbow). Take the feat Hand Crossbow Focus (Drow of the Underdark) and make sure your Great Crossbow has the Aptitude (Tome of Battle) weapon enhancement. Enjoy.

[Rebel7284]

If you were an elf, the Elf domain would give point blank shot for free.

Divine Metamagic is still great if you can get turn/rebuke attempts (do the pathfinder things count?)

Shiba Protector may be worth a dip. Prestige Ranger may be useful if your DM allows you to pick up Hunter's Eye.

[Slayer Lord]

Might I suggest Knowledge Devotion?

[tadkins]

Thanks for the responses everyone, much appreciated.

Especially yours, Captnq. This will help me greatly as a reference in the days ahead. I doubt my DM will let me take some of the more exotic options (as seriously badass as a floating disc machine gun sounds), but you helped me a great deal with sorting out some of the choices I have.


Take one level of Fighter with the Targeteer ACF (Dragon #310). This nets you two exotic ranged weapon proficiencies (in this case Hand Crossbow and Great Crossbow). Take the feat Hand Crossbow Focus (Drow of the Underdark) and make sure your Great Crossbow has the Aptitude (Tome of Battle) weapon enhancement. Enjoy.

Should have mentioned that most material save Dragon Magazine stuff is legal. But that's okay since this class has Hand Crossbow proficiency already.

I was thinking about the Hand Crossbow Focus and specializing in hand crossbows, but my worry is that feat might have to wait. My two feats are already used up by Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot, and Zen Archery is a pretty high priority as well. After that, I'm looking at Hand Crossbow Focus and Darkstalker.


If you were an elf, the Elf domain would give point blank shot for free.

Divine Metamagic is still great if you can get turn/rebuke attempts (do the pathfinder things count?)

Shiba Protector may be worth a dip. Prestige Ranger may be useful if your DM allows you to pick up Hunter's Eye.

Eh, I tend to prefer the short races for some reason (gnomes, dwarves and halflings) over the more commonly seen ones like humans and elves. xD

Prestige Ranger looks like a promising choice, I'll ask my DM if he's okay with that.


Might I suggest Knowledge Devotion?

I mentioned that I might be taking that, but the Knowledge Domain is pretty good too, so it's a tough choice. xD

[Feytalist]

I mentioned that I might be taking that, but the Knowledge Domain is pretty good too, so it's a tough choice. xD

You can have both. Just pick up Knowledge Devotion via a feat. Your domain doesn't go away once you have Devotion (you can trade one in for the other, sure, but that's optional).

[tadkins]

You can have both. Just pick up Knowledge Devotion via a feat. Your domain doesn't go away once you have Devotion (you can trade one in for the other, sure, but that's optional).

This is true. Could add it to the long list of other feats I'd need. Just feels like I need too many of them as it is.

[Feytalist]

This is true. Could add it to the long list of other feats I'd need. Just feels like I need too many of them as it is.

Well, that's the problem with an archer build. Very feat-intensive.


If you have a dearth of feats, you could do some sneaky retraining, if you're allowed. Some domains give you feats. No prerequisites, no qualifiers. Pick up whatever domain (Rune, say), retrain the Scribe Scroll bonus feat you get into whatever other feat you want, swap the domain for an equivalent Devotion (there is no Rune Devotion, but Complete Champion has guidelines for swapping nonstandard domains with the given Devotions), and then retrain that Devotion feat into Knowledge Devotion.

I think this is RAW-legal, but your DM has final say, of course.