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View Full Version : Followers! How to have them help a party



Segev
2013-08-14, 11:29 AM
There are probably other threads on this, and even handbooks that I haven't looked into. I will do so later, but I wanted to share my own ideas first; I have a tendency to get narrow-focused on things when I find what others have done.

The goal here is to come up with builds for 1st and maybe 2nd level Followers who would be worth taking with you on an adventure. The obvious challenge of keeping them alive is not to be overlooked, but part of the purpose of these is that they won't typically be in a fight. Instead, they're supporting the party by filling roles that are otherwise absent or by aiding those with such roles.


The Scouts

This is best done, I think, as a trio. You want one for Spot, one for Listen, and one for Search.

The reason for a trio is that they're ultimately going to be a bit skill-starved, but are mono-focusing on maxing out their detection skill of choice. To achieve this, perhaps ironically, they are going to be Psions. Spot and Listen will be Seers, specifically. They will be elves for the +2 racial bonus to these skills and the ability to find secret doors.

Psion (Seer) 1, Psicrystal Affinity (psion bonus) with +3 to the chosen skill from the Psicrystal, Skill Focus (Search, Spot, or Listen), and the Psicrystal's own Alertness. Aim for at least a 14 int so they have 4 base SP/level. All three pick up Synesthete (+4 to either Spot and Search or to Listen) and Precognition as their psionic powers.

The total bonus to the chosen skill is 4(ranks)+3(crystal)+3(focus)+2(racial)+1(Wisdom)+2 (alertness from psicrystal)+2(psicrystal's Aid Another)+4(Synesthete) = +21.

For Search, they can actually pool their resources and grant, on average, +4 more from the Spot and Listen expert (each and their psicrystals Aiding Another the Search expert should manage to get about two of the four succeeding on any given roll). On one important roll, they can also add +2 to it from Precognition.

Now, as scouts, they will want to take one cross-class rank in Hide and Move Silently, and their Dex mod should give them a +1 to that. This isn't great; you probably honestly need to give them cloaks and boots of elvenkind out of your own gp for at least a +7 to each. They can't hide from each other, sadly, and probably won't hide from enemies with enough reliability to keep them safe without you nearby to help out. Don't send them too far ahead. Their job is to spot incoming danger and search out rooms. Trapfinding would be great on them, but they won't have it by default.


The Sage
This one is human, and also exploits psionics, but isn't going to be a psion. He will not be as good as a Bard, necessarily, but for a first level character, he'll be a font of Knowledge skill successes.

He is a Dragonfire Adept with Hidden Talent (Call to Mind) and (you guessed it) a Psicrystal. His first level Invocation is Draconic Knowledge. This is why he's a DFA to begin with: it gives him +6 to all Knowledge skills and to Spellcraft, and it lets him make them all untrained. Because the psicrystal uses its master's skill ranks and can't share the Invocation, it will only be useful for Aiding Another if you have actual ranks in the skill in question, but that's up to you how you spread your skill points around.

The Hidden Talent-granted power Call to Mind takes a minute to manifest, but allows a re-roll of a Knowledge skill check at +4. If your psicrystal is trained, it shares that +4. Sadly, even with that, a psicrystal has probably only a 50% chance of making the DC 10 Aid Another roll.

Still, the Psicrystal gives you +3 to one of your Knowledge skills. Since he's not going to be hiding or doing anything ancillary, you can buy him a small library of masterwork "tools" for each skill, leaving us with (before skill ranks) at least:

2(int; you did put at least a 14 here, right?)+6(Draconic Knowledge)+2(tools) = +10 base to all Knowledge and Spellcraft checks.

He also gets to re-roll any he fails the first time, at +14.

If he spreads his skill points around to cover as many knowledges as possible, with ranks that's +15. If he concentrates on a few skills, those few are at +18 (and the others at +14).

On his chosen skill for the Psicrystal's help, that's a +17 to a +21. Not at all bad for a first level follower. He also has a 1d6 breath weapon, if you need one, but I'd keep him out of combat if I could.


That's four 1st level followers there. I am still concocting a pair of bards to use dragonfire inspiration and inspire courage together for +1 to hit and +1d6 to damage for the whole party. Probably want a party cleric to Sanctuary them for you.

Talya
2013-08-14, 11:45 AM
1. Take Leadership.
2. Get a cohort with 10 levels of warchanter.
3. ?
4. Profit.

Segev
2013-08-14, 11:48 AM
Sure, but this is about followers, not the cohort. The cohort is going to be almost as good as a PC.

Talya
2013-08-14, 11:52 AM
Sure, but this is about followers, not the cohort. The cohort is going to be almost as good as a PC.


This cohort is about the followers.

Check out the Warchanter capstone at 10.


Inspire Legion (Su): A 10th-level war chanter with 18 or more ranks in any Perform skill can unite her allies and make them fight better together. To be affected, an ally must be within 60 feet of the war chanter and must be able to hear the war chanter. Only allies who meet these requirements at the beginning of the song are affected, and an ally whose hearing is interrupted or who moves more than 60 feet away from the war chanter cannot rejoin the same song. The effect lasts as long as the affected characters can hear the war chanter and stay within range.

When the war chanter begins singing, determine the best base attack bonus among all the affected characters. All affected characters use this base attack bonus or the war chanter's character level as their base attack bonus for the duration of the effect. All affected characters gain a +2 competence bonus on damage rolls as well.


(Warchanter is not that good, but it turns your followers into a serious threat.)

Karoht
2013-08-14, 12:13 PM
I'm playing through the Pathfinder Campaign known as Reign of Winter.
It started with our monk deciding he needed a pavillion tent because he was a bit of a silly person, for largely no reason. Once he had a pavillion tent he began collecting things to go into the tent, and while it took out a few chunks of our WBL, we didn't really mind. That tent had things like Heatstones so we were warm enough, we eventually bought a second tent for things like having a private dressing area, a bath, and all of that.

Soon after, we managed to talk a few of the NPC's out of fighting us, which was pretty awesome. We started to build a 'camp' as it were, that followed us everywhere we went. We've got 4 NPC's (some with class levels even) who now managed the camp. And a few of them even help us out from time to time.

Spoilers, for anyone who is curious

I'm not sure how, but we managed to bribe Lietell the crow (witch) into hanging out with us. We had a very derpy party member who practically threw money at Lietell on a regular basis in exchange for help. I'm a small creature, Lietell somehow turned into a medium sized creature, so occasionally she and I take to the skies.
The Wood Wife Greta was pretty easy to convince to join the party. One of our party members decided to burn her house down. Yes, we tried to put it out, yes we were very mad at the party member who did this, yes the party member's reasoning was stupid. But somehow it all worked out.
There are a few others who don't really do anything but occasionally provide advice. It's actually kind of neat. It almost feels like we are a party of knights with our squires in tow.
Of course, now we have Baba Yaga's house, so I'm not sure how that is going to work out.

Some of the winter wolf guards in the city tagged along with us for a while. That was due to some deception on our part, don't ask me how that worked, but it was handy.

The best part of it all, it happened completely organically. The DM didn't push it or interfere with it, and we didn't always try and recruit so much as we talked people out of fighting with us and then sort of had no other place to go.


So yeah. It can totally be done without being intrusionary. Managing a small camp can be engaging for the party, or just let the NPC's and the DM handle it. So long as they aren't a burden, but are able to contribute once in a while when the party wants, it can be a great addition to a group of heroes.

Hand_of_Vecna
2013-08-14, 12:13 PM
Though your base idea is interesting, i don't think optimizing a level one character to be very good at one skill will make them worthwhile as a scout to a mid level party or worthy of serious expenditures, like skill boosting magic items.

In the example of a scout, feat and power stacking has gotten you skill checks that rival a far less invested PC, but it takes a three man team all of whom aren't optimized for stealth so they'll need lots of magic or they'll be spotted easily. You'd be better off using something like a Similcrum of a PC skill monkey or a familiar or psicrystal gained via feat by a skill monkey that shares their high level skills.

Alternatively, take advantage of the biggest strength of followers over such solutions; their numbers. Send followers with gather information weeks or months ahead of the party to move into communities and socialize. The party doesn't need to know where their going. just have a follower in the ten biggest cities on the continent and a few more spread out in all directions from where they currently are.

The Sage idea is much better, even if a PC has a better skill, two auto pass aid anothers will be helpful.

I've always been partial to the idea of a servant that passes things to a PC making quickdraw unnecessary.

Segev
2013-08-14, 02:03 PM
I like the Gather Info idea, provided you have a campaign setting where travel for low-level characters isn't fatal. (I've seen too many where only NPCs controlled by the DM exclusively manage to make long journies perilessly (as opposed to perilously).

I've used Unseen Servants for the "caddy" that hands his master his weapons; it's a fun idea. Could easily work with a follower if the follower were adequately protected from the random AoEs and could avoid being directly targeted. Would need to make sure the follower had the same movement capability as the character, though.

The scouting trio is probably mis-named; you're right about them being too easy to spot. What they DO do is provide high awareness for the party by staying with them or screening the advance only a little ahead. Not getting far enough ahead that stealth matters; their job is to run back to safety if a fight breaks out, and make sure the party is aware of everything going on. I've been in too many parties where no PC is fully optimized for awareness, such that these numbers on these first level characters are better than a 7th or 8th level party might otherwise have. They also make good guards for night duty, since they're more warm bodies to let the PCs get more rest.

The drawback of the Search one is that he's not got Trapfinding; if he can get that, he can replace the need for a rogue for most purposes. Or he can provide the rogue a backup, or an Aid Another check.

Segev
2013-08-14, 02:14 PM
Also, I mistook how WArchanter worked. I thought it was capped by the beneficiaries' levels. Since it isn't...o_o.

All you need is one PC in the party with full BAB and even the 1st level followers are glass cannons. (Need to get them some means of not dying horribly, though, since now they're in-combat threats.)

Dawnmor
2013-08-14, 04:16 PM
One word 'Fodder'

Vaz
2013-08-14, 04:20 PM
Also, I mistook how WArchanter worked. I thought it was capped by the beneficiaries' levels. Since it isn't...o_o.

All you need is one PC in the party with full BAB and even the 1st level followers are glass cannons. (Need to get them some means of not dying horribly, though, since now they're in-combat threats.)

Nope. You need to have them die very horribly. Have a Corpsecrafter in the party capable of turning them into walking bombs.

Segev
2013-08-14, 04:46 PM
That works for a Thrallherd with a Dread Necromancer friend (or cohort), but not so well for a guy with actual Leadership.

Hamste
2013-08-14, 05:08 PM
Warchief, Dragonshaman and Marshal can all make the followers more useful...basically any class that gives area of effect buffs is useful particularly if they can use these buffs at low levels (Got to love walking buffs for the party and your other followers). Be a warchief with dragonshaman focusing on the fast healing aura to counter the damage from the warchief's ability and you will be massively strong and nearly unkillable until your followers finally die.

Fell conspiracy is also a powerful feat if you have a lot of allies (For example if you have the leadership with max score and the extra followers feat) and free money. +2 spot and listen for every other ally within range (over 400 bonus to spot and listen? Take that invisible and silent assassin!) and you can't be flanked by anyone unless if you are all flanked....never be surprised again. Total cost of all this? 200 gp each day.

Also don’t forget the item creation slaves to build everything you might need for half the price and no feat cost for you.

Fax Celestis
2013-08-14, 05:11 PM
Tribal Chieftain (Miniatures Handbook) has a pretty cool buffing mechanism too, but they require you to share race.

Segev
2013-08-14, 05:16 PM
...Fell Conspiracy, despite its name and book of origin, seems not to actually require any nefariousness at all.

Palanan
2013-08-14, 05:39 PM
Originally Posted by Fax Celestis
Tribal Chieftain (Miniatures Handbook) has a pretty cool buffing mechanism too, but they require you to share race.

Not seeing a "Tribal Chieftain," but do you mean Warchief? The Warchief's frenzy ability affects nearby allies--who, as you noted, have to be of the same race.

Also, this looks like one of the easiest possible PrCs to qualify for.

.

Fax Celestis
2013-08-14, 05:44 PM
Not seeing a "Tribal Chieftain," but do you mean Warchief? The Warchief's frenzy ability affects nearby allies--who, as you noted, have to be of the same race.

Also, this looks like one of the easiest possible PrCs to qualify for.

.

Yeah, that's the one. It is ridiculously easy to qualify for.

Hamste
2013-08-14, 05:48 PM
Of course it is also pretty useless unless if you have leadership (plus a way to overcome the damage per turn) or if all your team mates are the same race as you/don't mind taking damage for extra strength