Maginomicon
2013-08-14, 12:56 PM
I have a house rule that was originally intended to answer the conundrum of fighting through glass and other barriers that allow line-of-sight but not "traditional" line-of-effect. I quote it below for context.
Do not respond to this thread with statements of whether the house rule is rules-legal. It's a house rule, so its intention is to FIX something in the RAW that doesn't make logical sense. If you disagree, I defer you to the last line of my sig.
Line-of-Effect vs Line-of-Sight
In situations where you have line-of-sight but not necessarily true line-of-effect (such as when looking through a glass window or shutter), generally use the description of the effect to determine whether you need mechanical (“true”) line-of-effect.
The following new terms categorize certain kinds of effects:
“Grenade-like”: Some kind of object is hurled or fired at a destination (which is usually a square), auto-hits the destination, and then has an area-of-effect centered there (i.e. Fireball, Hail of Crystals, etc.). This category includes cones centered at the user (colloquially called a “shotgun-like” effect).
“Ray-like”: Some kind of object (usually a visual ray) is hurled or fired at a destination (which could be a square) as a ranged touch attack. (i.e. Scorching Ray, Crystal Shard, etc.)
“Bullet-like”: Some kind of object is hurled or fired at a destination (which could be a square) as a ranged attack (not a ranged touch attack). (i.e. Giant’s Wrath, Invisible Needle, etc.)
Effects that do not describe a grenade-like, bullet-like, or ray-like means to get from you to their destination do not require true line-of-effect and only need line-of-sight (even if that line-of-sight is through a glass window, a screen, or scry). However, the physical destination of the effect must still be within the effect’s stated physical range (“range+radius” for some area effects) ignoring obstacles (Yes, this means you’ll often have to look up the flavor text for each effect if it’s from the SRD/OGC, but that’s nothing new). If this puzzles you, you can think of it as “the influence of your magic does not spread beyond the physical range of the spell”.
Use your best judgement on what grenade-like, bullet-like, or ray-like effects do to intervening obstacles (such as whether they count as “soft cover” or whether it’ll damage, destroy, or move the obstacle in some way).
Realize that a lot of psionic powers do not mention any sort of need for a true line-of-effect. Additionally, the psionic character could “dispense with displays” (and generally will always attempt to anyway since there’s no negative cost for failure) to completely remove that display. However, if the power’s description directly describes a grenade-like, bullet-like, or ray-like effect as a means for the power to get from the manifester to the destination, then the dispense with display option will not dispense with that aspect of the display (and thus, still requires true line-of-effect).
For portal-like effects, the squares on one end of the portal are considered adjacent to the squares on the other end of the portal for the purposes of line-of-effect and line-of-sight (unless stated otherwise). This particular rule ignores the limits on interplanar range such as written in the clairvoyance spell (the portal has to at least be within range of the clairvoyance spell). Effects which attempt to cross planes use the location of the nearest physical connection between those two planes (such as a portal) when determining if something is within the stated physical range.
Mirrors, Visual Rays, and Light
If an effect is visually a ray (ex. “Scorching Ray”) and such an effect is aimed at a mirror or other reasonably reflective surface of any kind, the ray bounces off of the mirror as appropriate. Likewise, if the effect is a light effect (such as having the “light” descriptor), it should also bounce off of all mirrors as appropriate. In either case, be sure to consider the angle of incidence to the mirror so far as whether it can hit something reflected in the mirror.
Only the reflectiveness of the reflective surface (i.e. “is the mirror cloudy” or “how still is the water”) should determine whether there are any detriments to the effect or penalties to its chance to hit something after the reflection. GMs should use their best discretion on how reflective a surface is, but generally if a player has direct control over the reflectiveness of the surface somehow (such as personally creating the reflective surface through the “Mirror” or “Create Water” spell) then they should determine how reflective the surface is (initially, in the case of “Create Water”).
What I want to know is:
How would these house rules as-stated affect DMM/Persist shenanigans? (using Ocular Spell, Reach Spell, etc.)
How would these house rules as-stated affect other notable relevant shenanigans?
What do these house rules "break"? (i.e. make no longer work as intended or make pointless)
How could these house rules be abused by optimization? (House RAI is more important than House RAW here)
How can I make the ambiguity of "reflectiveness" more clear?
P.S.
The Mirror spell is in Dragon Magazine #302 page 50, and creates an illusory 1 sq.ft. one-way mirror that floats in space and can be reshaped or repositioned.
Do not respond to this thread with statements of whether the house rule is rules-legal. It's a house rule, so its intention is to FIX something in the RAW that doesn't make logical sense. If you disagree, I defer you to the last line of my sig.
Line-of-Effect vs Line-of-Sight
In situations where you have line-of-sight but not necessarily true line-of-effect (such as when looking through a glass window or shutter), generally use the description of the effect to determine whether you need mechanical (“true”) line-of-effect.
The following new terms categorize certain kinds of effects:
“Grenade-like”: Some kind of object is hurled or fired at a destination (which is usually a square), auto-hits the destination, and then has an area-of-effect centered there (i.e. Fireball, Hail of Crystals, etc.). This category includes cones centered at the user (colloquially called a “shotgun-like” effect).
“Ray-like”: Some kind of object (usually a visual ray) is hurled or fired at a destination (which could be a square) as a ranged touch attack. (i.e. Scorching Ray, Crystal Shard, etc.)
“Bullet-like”: Some kind of object is hurled or fired at a destination (which could be a square) as a ranged attack (not a ranged touch attack). (i.e. Giant’s Wrath, Invisible Needle, etc.)
Effects that do not describe a grenade-like, bullet-like, or ray-like means to get from you to their destination do not require true line-of-effect and only need line-of-sight (even if that line-of-sight is through a glass window, a screen, or scry). However, the physical destination of the effect must still be within the effect’s stated physical range (“range+radius” for some area effects) ignoring obstacles (Yes, this means you’ll often have to look up the flavor text for each effect if it’s from the SRD/OGC, but that’s nothing new). If this puzzles you, you can think of it as “the influence of your magic does not spread beyond the physical range of the spell”.
Use your best judgement on what grenade-like, bullet-like, or ray-like effects do to intervening obstacles (such as whether they count as “soft cover” or whether it’ll damage, destroy, or move the obstacle in some way).
Realize that a lot of psionic powers do not mention any sort of need for a true line-of-effect. Additionally, the psionic character could “dispense with displays” (and generally will always attempt to anyway since there’s no negative cost for failure) to completely remove that display. However, if the power’s description directly describes a grenade-like, bullet-like, or ray-like effect as a means for the power to get from the manifester to the destination, then the dispense with display option will not dispense with that aspect of the display (and thus, still requires true line-of-effect).
For portal-like effects, the squares on one end of the portal are considered adjacent to the squares on the other end of the portal for the purposes of line-of-effect and line-of-sight (unless stated otherwise). This particular rule ignores the limits on interplanar range such as written in the clairvoyance spell (the portal has to at least be within range of the clairvoyance spell). Effects which attempt to cross planes use the location of the nearest physical connection between those two planes (such as a portal) when determining if something is within the stated physical range.
Mirrors, Visual Rays, and Light
If an effect is visually a ray (ex. “Scorching Ray”) and such an effect is aimed at a mirror or other reasonably reflective surface of any kind, the ray bounces off of the mirror as appropriate. Likewise, if the effect is a light effect (such as having the “light” descriptor), it should also bounce off of all mirrors as appropriate. In either case, be sure to consider the angle of incidence to the mirror so far as whether it can hit something reflected in the mirror.
Only the reflectiveness of the reflective surface (i.e. “is the mirror cloudy” or “how still is the water”) should determine whether there are any detriments to the effect or penalties to its chance to hit something after the reflection. GMs should use their best discretion on how reflective a surface is, but generally if a player has direct control over the reflectiveness of the surface somehow (such as personally creating the reflective surface through the “Mirror” or “Create Water” spell) then they should determine how reflective the surface is (initially, in the case of “Create Water”).
What I want to know is:
How would these house rules as-stated affect DMM/Persist shenanigans? (using Ocular Spell, Reach Spell, etc.)
How would these house rules as-stated affect other notable relevant shenanigans?
What do these house rules "break"? (i.e. make no longer work as intended or make pointless)
How could these house rules be abused by optimization? (House RAI is more important than House RAW here)
How can I make the ambiguity of "reflectiveness" more clear?
P.S.
The Mirror spell is in Dragon Magazine #302 page 50, and creates an illusory 1 sq.ft. one-way mirror that floats in space and can be reshaped or repositioned.