Rebalanced Summoner Druid

[bekeleven]

I was thinking of making a quick summoner build by paring down the druid.

So I took from the spell list any spell requiring a save (except harmless), as well as a few other spells like shapechange. Then I eliminated wild shape, animal empathy, trackless step, and all of the other class features except for animal companion.

Do you think I've hit tier 2 with a 9th level spell list of summons and buffs + an animal companion?

[Rebel7284]

I was thinking of making a quick summoner build by paring down the druid.

So I took from the spell list any spell requiring a save (except harmless), as well as a few other spells like shapechange. Then I eliminated wild shape, animal empathy, trackless step, and all of the other class features except for animal companion.

Do you think I've hit tier 2 with a 9th level spell list of summons and buffs + an animal companion?

Probably. :)

[Urpriest]

Just summoning, plus companion?

Yeah, that's probably Tier 2. I'd be leery of the rest of the list, and make sure there aren't any major BFC or setting-screw things lurking about in there. But the way you describe it, that sounds like a pretty straightforward Tier 2.

[eggynack]

Yeah, you're probably at least tier two with a full summoning list like that, particularly with buffing and an animal companion as backup. The specifics of the power level depends somewhat on the extent of the spell removal. Like, you said that you're removing everything with a save, and you said that leaves you with just summoning and buffing, and that's inaccurate. For example, wall of thorns is utterly saveless, so that's presumably still hanging around. This is also true for spells like sleet storm, stone shape, wind wall, ice storm, really a pile of spells. You should probably clarify the ban list some.

Edit: Missed some good ones. Like, blinding spittle doesn't have a save, so that adds a debuff to the list of spell types. There's also kelpstrand among those. Omen of peril and like spells add some divination to the list. Obviously splinterbolt gets some damage on there. Also, there's a good list of buff spells that are more utility than combat based, and those expand things somewhat. Ultimately, if I can find enough saveless spells of a multitude of spell types, the druid might remain at low tier one.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Given that the SNA list is less flexible than Summon Monster, I'd argue that it might even be T3, depending on how pared back the list is. If you've written a concrete list of summons plus a few buffs and heals, then you're probably OK.

Also, I'd put all the non-Wildshape class features back in, truthfully. They're utterly inconsequential power-wise, but they're flavorful and take up space that would otherwise be boring and empty.

[Rebel7284]

Yeah, you're probably at least tier two with a full summoning list like that, particularly with buffing and an animal companion as backup. The specifics of the power level depends somewhat on the extent of the spell removal. Like, you said that you're removing everything with a save, and you said that leaves you with just summoning and buffing, and that's inaccurate. For example, wall of thorns is utterly saveless, so that's presumably still hanging around. This is also true for spells like sleet storm, stone shape, wind wall, ice storm, really a pile of spells. You should probably clarify the ban list some.

Edit: Missed some good ones. Like, blinding spittle doesn't have a save, so that adds a debuff to the list of spell types. There's also kelpstrand among those. Omen of peril and like spells add some divination to the list. Obviously splinterbolt gets some damage on there. Also, there's a good list of buff spells that are more utility than combat based, and those expand things somewhat. Ultimately, if I can find enough saveless spells of a multitude of spell types, the druid might remain at low tier one.


Remember, sorcerers are tier two. You can have some super-powerful spells and still be tier two. Cutting off half the druid list probably qualifies as enough flexibility lost even if there are spells left for each "threat category"

[eggynack]

Remember, sorcerers are tier two. You can have some super-powerful spells and still be tier two. Cutting off half the druid list probably qualifies as enough flexibility lost even if there are spells left for each "threat category"
Well, it really depends on how much of a variety I can pull off, and I suspect that I can pull off a pretty wide variety. I've already found about one spell of every type a druid could want, so the goal is to get a few at each level. I'm really not even sure that getting rid of spells with saves gets rid of all that much. It hits a lot of stuff, but nowhere near everything, and it's worth consideration. I can still toss on some more utility based buff spells too, like the heart of x spells, and primal instinct. Druids have a deep list.

Edit: Ooh, I can also pick up stuff on the oread list. That gets us earthquake, transmute rock to mud, transmute mud to rock, charm monster, and spike stones. Nifty.

Double edit: Dispel magic is cool. Seemed worth mentioning as its own edit.

[bekeleven]

How about getting rid of any spell that has a target other than myself, my animal companion, an ally, or multiple allies?

(plus summons, of course)

[eggynack]

That's probably closer to what you want, if what you want is nothing but buff spells. Alternatively, you could just absolutely limit access to non-buff spells, instead of giving the parameters by which they'd be the only spells available.