monk that's not a Swordsage (or Monk)?

[danzibr]

I've been reading some stuff lately and I'm wondering what class or combination of classes best simulates an unarmed melee baddonkey. One which specifically fights with hands and feet.

Basically take the monk image and strip away the serene, wise man image, leaving you with an unarmed melee combatant. While Swordsage is indeed a good monk, their focus is on the wrong (well, in this case) aspect.

I'm currently thinking Warblade, actually, though non-ToB is fine. Or even homebrew. The problem with this is Warblades, in my mind, excel with, well, weapons.

Just to clarify, I'm not looking for a general melee monster but rather one which specifically fights with his or her own two arms and legs.

Any suggested classes/PrC's/feats?

As far as feats go we have the obvious Snap Kick and IUS.

EDIT: Also, not interested in PsyWar.

[Segev]

Fighter/PsyWarrior combination, I think. Improved Unarmed Strike, yes, and probably Snap Kick, but pick up Grip of Iron and run hard into the combat maneuvers. Trip and grapple will be your friends. Speed of Thought can get you +10 movement. Heck, dip Barbarian for the Rage and fast movement, if you really want to go for "bully with fists" and step as far from "serene martial artist" as possible.

Improved Disarm could also be fun: take away their weapons, maybe wield them yourself until you get bored of it.

If you're not taking Monk, TWF might be your friend, as well, in order to be able to really simulate proper pugilism and kicking to the face.

Robilar's Gambit and Karmic Strike are also potentially a lot of fun, since you're looking at combat maneuvers. Make sure to get combat Reflexes along with them! "Oh! You attacked me! I'll just trip you and take your weapon! Tut, tut, your friend wants to dance, too? On the floor and I'll grapple this one."

[SowZ]

A 1 level dip in Spirit Lion Totem City Brawler Whirling Frenzy Barbarian will get you improved unarmed strike, a rage mode that gives extra attacks to represent a flurry of blows, TWF with unarmed strikes, and pounce.

[gorfnab]

1. Barbarian - Whirling Frenzy ACF (UA), Spirit Totem Lion ACF(CC), City Brawler ACF (Dragon #349), Skilled City Dweller ACF (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a) (trade Ride for Tumble)
2. Barbarian - Wolf Totem ACF (UA)

Edit: Ninja'd

[Drelua]

You should check out the Pathfinder versions of the Psychic Warrior and Soulknife. They both have archetypes aimed at fighting unarmed and they're pretty well balanced classes, with a few options that combine well with unarmed fighting. I'd recommend the Soulknife, if only because it seems like you don't want much focus on wisdom.

[Piggy Knowles]

I'd probably do a Barbarian/Warblade with levels in Fist of the Forest (Complete Champion) and Frostrager (Frostburn).

[Xefas]

Or even homebrew.

I may have something for your assorted punching needs. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=286983)

[danzibr]

I may have something for your assorted punching needs. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=286983)
What a bamf class.

[Ninja_Grand]

What a bamf class.

I had to google that one.

Fighter? Refluff the monk?

[ArcturusV]

Hmm, just dropping this off. But if you ever did want the "mystical" contemplative sort of monk? Rather than go Monk, or some Monk variant I actually like the Shaman class out of OA. You punch stuff in the face, get a bunch of "spiritual" powers including some spellcasting. Honestly I think it's just a better fix for the Monk than most Monk fixes, because most Monk fixes are focused on making a Trip Locker or a Power Attacker type. Least the ones I've seen. But that doesn't really fit the supposed fluff and identity of the Monk class as it's done.

As for the focus on an Unarmed Combatant? I'll jump in on the Barbarian bandwagon myself. The Barbs got a couple of good Unarmed ACFs, and unarmed classes like Fist of the Forest and Frostrager to go into. Though depending on how you define "Unarmed Combat"... I like to exercise my right to bear arms, and go Bear Warrior. Not because it's the most effective. But come on, BEAR. Plus you can use it to get into other, stranger PrCs like Warshaper and Shapeshifter if you wanted.

And being able to shapeshift into some squid or something and grapple lock someone makes you pretty decent at fighting without a blade.

[DMVerdandi]

Wizard.
Greater mighty whallop+improved unarmed attack+Spontaneous divination acf +skilled gauntlets+snap kick.

prepare whichever spells of whichever things you want to emulate from monk, shake, stir and done.


Also, spell to power erudite does the same thing, with the power of his MIND!!!!

[Gavinfoxx]

Barbarian with
Spirit Lion Totem
Wolf Totem
Whirling Frenzy
City Brawler
Street Fighter Barbarian
Skilled City Dweller - Ride for Tumble

Get Superior Unarmed Strike
Get a Monk's Belt
Get a Necklace of Natural Attacks
Get a Fanged Ring

[Lateral]

Warblade will definitely work. Hell, all you really need is Superior Unarmed Strike.

[Maginomicon]

Here's a few other things that might tickle your fancy. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=281989) I use these for a lot of my "street rat" NPCs/enemies.

[Blightedmarsh]

Totemist. Lots of natural attacks. LOTS of them.

[danzibr]

Here's a few other things that might tickle your fancy. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=281989) I use these for a lot of my "street rat" NPCs/enemies.
Those are some nice ACF's. Thanks!

Totemist. Lots of natural attacks. LOTS of them.
^^ clearly did not read the original post.

[Beleron]

I'd like to say Battle Dancer, but its pretty sucky. Full BAB, though, so a dip might be a way of picking up IUS.

[Krazzman]

^^ clearly did not read the original post.

Why? A Totemist is Clearly fighting with his Arms and legs. Landshark Boots bound to totem. Can give at second level +10 to Jump Checks and on a 5ft Jump a 4d6+12+4xStr-mod. Or just take Melds that give Slam attacks if you think that the Tiger Claw Style is totally not monklike... (refering to Jackie Chans Snake in the Eagle's shadow)

[Gigas Breaker]

Why? A Totemist is Clearly fighting with his Arms and legs. Landshark Boots bound to totem. Can give at second level +10 to Jump Checks and on a 5ft Jump a 4d6+12+4xStr-mod. Or just take Melds that give Slam attacks if you think that the Tiger Claw Style is totally not monklike... (refering to Jackie Chans Snake in the Eagle's shadow)

Don't you mean Cat style? Hahaha I think I need to watch it again.

[Fouredged Sword]

I am currently playing a monk 1 (focused attack ACF) / battle sorcerer 3 / Fighter 2 in E6. He focuses on beast strike to stack the slam and unarmed strike bonuses of a battlefist into a single focused attack. He ends up doing something like 12d6+lots as a full round action. He uses mighty wallop and enlarge person (DM oked it on warforged) to boost his weapon size up to 4d6 each and then adds the two together with beast strike.

He is a rockem sockem robot tin man in the wild wild west.

[mattie_p]

Really, this is what Zinc Saucier is all about. We did monk a while back (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233749), perhaps you might take a look.

[Krazzman]

Don't you mean Cat style? Hahaha I think I need to watch it again.

No because the cat's name is Tiger! But jeah. I would've added the picture when he jumps at that eagle guy but sadly I didn't ifnd it through google. I should watch that movie again too... saw the end-fight around half a year ago when we visited Hamburg.

The Zinc Sauciere is actually quite awesome.

[Lord Haart]

There's also a pugilist fighter variant in Dragon 310 (along with a lot of other class variants — mostly crappy, but notable for presenting very little known paladin-variants-for-every-nonevil-alignment-yes-including-true-neutral, with evil three arriving some issues later).

[Gigas Breaker]

No because the cat's name is Tiger! But jeah. I would've added the picture when he jumps at that eagle guy but sadly I didn't ifnd it through google. I should watch that movie again too... saw the end-fight around half a year ago when we visited Hamburg.

The Zinc Sauciere is actually quite awesome.

I also really like the snake style vs mantis style fight. These kinds of movies are part of why I love Tome of Battle so much.

A pouncing frenzying fist of the forest/frostrager sounds pretty sweet. I may have to try that someday.

[Ruethgar]

I would second the barbarians above and add that, if you can, take a level of Shapeshift druid. You are already going unarmed, may as well add 4 str 4 nat ac and a bite right?

[Fax Celestis]

My vote's for Incarnate.

[Silva Stormrage]

Barbarian1/Fighter 2/Monk 2/Drunken Brawler? Not the most optimal but its decently fun :smalltongue:

Or another optimal one might be a master of many forms build. If you count slam attacks as unarmed fighting I am sure there are some good forms for you to take.