Shouldnt Mr Fantasic be really frail when all stretched out?

[Traab]

Rubber bands are really easy to break when they are stretched out. And Reed stretches really really far. All of his mass is thinned out and under a lot of strain, strain that only increases the further he goes. And he can stretch pretty far. I read the wiki and cant see any information on what his body is made from other than a blurb that he has powers of elasticity.

On a related note, could he also compress himself until he is so dense its like punching a mountain?

[Emmerask]

Since when have superhero-comics ever been realistic in any way shape or form?

They just invent some new matter or force that "explains" all that
...wait a minute...
Are all physicists comic book writers and vice versa? :smallbiggrin::smalltongue::smallbiggrin:

[Tengu_temp]

When Superman catches Louis Lane right above the ground, shouldn't the fall kill her anyway?

[Tanuki Tales]

Traab, Reed can condense himself to being nearly the Thing's equal in strength temporarily. He just doesn't do it that often.

[Tiki Snakes]

Rubber bands are really easy to break when they are stretched out. And Reed stretches really really far. All of his mass is thinned out and under a lot of strain, strain that only increases the further he goes. And he can stretch pretty far. I read the wiki and cant see any information on what his body is made from other than a blurb that he has powers of elasticity.

On a related note, could he also compress himself until he is so dense its like punching a mountain?

Well, when he stretches himself he should burst like a squashed sausage and his bones should explode, you know?

He doesn't get noticeably more fragile, no. If he did, then his power would probably not be particularly useful. In fact, he'd probably have died pretty quickly, or simply never used it.

[LordChaos13]

When Superman catches Louis Lane right above the ground, shouldn't the fall kill her anyway?

Nope because touch-transmitted force fields.
He can make anyone/thing that isn't a gas or liquid fly as fast as himself and have limited invulnerability.

I may have gotten some details mixed up cause of time but that's the actual explanation.

[Traab]

Nope because touch-transmitted force fields.
He can make anyone/thing that isn't a gas or liquid fly as fast as himself and have limited invulnerability.

I may have gotten some details mixed up cause of time but that's the actual explanation.

I prefer to believe he uses his godly reflexes to slow her fall till its safe to stop. Like a stuntman falling on an air mattress. She doesnt go terminal velocity to 0 in an instant.

And Tiki, I can accept his body becoming elastic to avoid events like bones and organs bursting, I just meant, if his body is elastic, then stretching it out should make it more vulnerable to damage. I didnt see anything in the wiki about it being some special damage resistant elastic so I was hoping for a clarification on what exactly he is made out of.

[Tiki Snakes]

Far as I know, not having read any Fantastic 4, he's made of he same kind of stuff as you or me. Its all cosmic radiation shenanigans, far as i know. unit like someone like plastic man, who I assume has those powers in part due to his material composure.

Perhaps someone who knows what they are talking about could tell you more reliably. :smallsmile:

[Tanuki Tales]

Marvel has never explained it beyond that it works.

[Fjolnir]

Didn't they claim that the space radiation that hit reed and co was some variation on the Power Cosmic?

[Frozen_Feet]

Depends: what is Reed's plasticity treshold, ie. the point after which the material transformation of his body (=stretching) becomes irreversible? It's entirely possible (because comic book science) that his body's elasticity is infinite, meaning no matter how much force you apply to it, it will only stretch, and then return back to how it was once the force disappears. It maybe it would require infinite force to stretch him to his breaking point.

[Fan]

Nope because touch-transmitted force fields.
He can make anyone/thing that isn't a gas or liquid fly as fast as himself and have limited invulnerability.

I may have gotten some details mixed up cause of time but that's the actual explanation.

It's also the explanation for how he picks up airliners or cruise ships without them snapping in half and why he becomes an easier target when doing so.

His body's bio electric aura also protects his suit, which is why it always takes so long to get damaged in fights, and when solar supercharged he can extend this aura to make a net that can carry things for him and make other things invulnerable at range.

[Traab]

It's also the explanation for how he picks up airliners or cruise ships without them snapping in half and why he becomes an easier target when doing so.

His body's bio electric aura also protects his suit, which is why it always takes so long to get damaged in fights, and when solar supercharged he can extend this aura to make a net that can carry things for him and make other things invulnerable at range.

Oh god dammit I hate superman. Bad enough he is invulnerable, but now he is so awesome he can make anything else virtually invulnerable too? Is it wrong of me to root for lex luthor?

[Fan]

Oh god dammit I hate superman. Bad enough he is invulnerable, but now he is so awesome he can make anything else virtually invulnerable too? Is it wrong of me to root for lex luthor?

He's invulnerable, not invincible. He's not even the strongest in his universe, and he's never portrayed as being indestructible in any media he's written in, he just faces threats bigger than street crime joe and requires bigger than street crime Joe durability.

Glad to see you're a champion of the stormwind fallacy still though.

[Hawriel]

Nope because touch-transmitted force fields.
He can make anyone/thing that isn't a gas or liquid fly as fast as himself and have limited invulnerability.

I may have gotten some details mixed up cause of time but that's the actual explanation.

YES, under your explanation Louis is now traveling as fast as Superman in a perpendicular or opposite direction. So she would go splat. Not to mention the G forces involved in accelerating her. If it causes her to go in the same direction as Superman, she would get ripped apart because only a portion of her would be effected.

Also if any thing super man touches is now moving as fast and in in the same direction of motion, would his punches, rams, and kicks be rendered harmless?

[Traab]

He's invulnerable, not invincible. He's not even the strongest in his universe, and he's never portrayed as being indestructible in any media he's written in, he just faces threats bigger than street crime joe and requires bigger than street crime Joe durability.

Glad to see you're a champion of the stormwind fallacy still though.

/blows a razzberry at Fan. Tell that to poor Prankster! Who the hell is he supposed to fight NOW?!

[Fan]

/blows a razzberry at Fan. Tell that to poor Prankster! Who the hell is he supposed to fight NOW?!

Prankster has Super tech / Kryptonian gadgets ever since the events of Our Worlds at War (The Brainiac techno takeover of metropolis that starts the event. That upgrades the entire city once Superman frees it with the help of Lex.).

So he still fights Superman, just now with better toys that happen to usually involve Kryptonite and against a Superman that has to walk on needles around him still because he's essentially still a normal human being.

The forcefield thing is also controlled, and I imagine it's how he reduces the impacts of his kicks punches and rams to avoid murdering people.

[Raimun]

Hmm, he is very tough. Guns and bombs can't harm him:
http://marvel.wikia.com/Reed_Richards_(Earth-616)#Powers_and_AbilitiesEdit

Besides, FF isn't a radical deconstruction of a superhero genre so of course he doesn't break apart. :smallcool:

[SaintRidley]

Oh god dammit I hate superman. Bad enough he is invulnerable, but now he is so awesome he can make anything else virtually invulnerable too? Is it wrong of me to root for lex luthor?

It is if you're reading Red Son.

Maybe.

[jedipotter]

Rubber bands are really easy to break when they are stretched out. And Reed stretches really really far. All of his mass is thinned out and under a lot of strain, strain that only increases the further he goes. And he can stretch pretty far. I read the wiki and cant see any information on what his body is made from other than a blurb that he has powers of elasticity.

On a related note, could he also compress himself until he is so dense its like punching a mountain?


Well, having read a couple hundred FF's, Reed does not stretch all that far, all that often. He often sticks in the 10-15 foot range.

[Ravens_cry]

I believe in at least some iterations (http://marvel.wikia.com/Reed_Richards_%28Earth-1610%29)he isn't made of flesh and bone any more. In some cases, he may even be a colony of cooperative bacteria or something that simply takes the shape of a human being.

[Traab]

Prankster has Super tech / Kryptonian gadgets ever since the events of Our Worlds at War (The Brainiac techno takeover of metropolis that starts the event. That upgrades the entire city once Superman frees it with the help of Lex.).

So he still fights Superman, just now with better toys that happen to usually involve Kryptonite and against a Superman that has to walk on needles around him still because he's essentially still a normal human being.

The forcefield thing is also controlled, and I imagine it's how he reduces the impacts of his kicks punches and rams to avoid murdering people.

I was being facetious, good lord fan, although, the projective force field thing is another example of what I was talking about in the magneto/vader topic of people whose powers violate physics in a variety of ways you dont even think of till fridge logic kicks in, and so when the questions get asked like, "How was superman able to catch lois falling at terminal velocity without so much as knocking the wind out of her?" They throw bs hand waves that eventually become new power sets that in turn will need their own hand waves.

[Thanqol]

The way I understand it, Mr. Fantastic is teamed up with a person made out of rock and a dude who can set himself on fire and fly around.

[Tanuki Tales]

And Thanqol brings up another point I forgot.

Depending on the continuity, or the writer, the Fantastic Four are supposed to represent the four classical elements, with Reed being water. So if it helps, think of him more as a malleable and controllable liquid state than an elastic one.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

And Thanqol brings up another point I forgot.

Depending on the continuity, or the writer, the Fantastic Four are supposed to represent the four classical elements, with Reed being water. So if it helps, think of him more as a malleable and controllable liquid state than an elastic one.
So who's the Avatar?

[Traab]

So who's the Avatar?

Super Skrull

[Fjolnir]

So who's the Avatar?

Silver Surfer, Franklin Richards or Super Skrull depending on the writer

[Kitten Champion]

I thought Franklin was supposed to represent the classical Spirit element?

He does lose quite a bit of power when stretched too far, not that I've read a lot of FF comics or anything. Ultimate Fantastic Four tried to give a bit of an explanation for his abilities, but I've forgotten those comics completely.

[Tanuki Tales]

Franklin...recently got upped to supposed MJJ/True Legion/HoM Wanda/Clyde Wyncham levels and made Galactus his "Herald".

So...yeah....


I really miss the days when he was at best a Celestial...

[TheThan]

I Always thought there were limits to how far Mr. fantastic could stretch. If he went too far he could hurt himself. But then again, he can flatten himself into a sheet like shape and surround you, or use the same shape as a parachute etc. so really he’s probably powered by the power of plot.

[Surrealistik]

Oh god dammit I hate superman. Bad enough he is invulnerable, but now he is so awesome he can make anything else virtually invulnerable too? Is it wrong of me to root for lex luthor?

I for one echo your super-hatred.

[Mauve Shirt]

I built a superhero whose main power was the ability to grow extremely tall. Airplane height is the highest he's reached. When he got that far, however, his bones and muscles were stretched and worn like a rubber band. Even when he's just 30 feet or so, he'll fall over in a strong wind.

[Tanuki Tales]

I Always thought there were limits to how far Mr. fantastic could stretch. If he went too far he could hurt himself. But then again, he can flatten himself into a sheet like shape and surround you, or use the same shape as a parachute etc. so really he’s probably powered by the power of plot.

There are limits to how far he can safely stretch without causing himself harm. I don't know if we've witnessed limits of how far he could stretch before stopping entirely/tearing apart though.

[BWR]

Stop getting real world problems in my fantasy physics violations, dammit.

Time to derail this:
How much awesomer is Plastic Man than Mr Fantastic?
A) A lot
b) No really, waaay cooler
C) Yankee Doodle (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cR-6rBpYz0)

More seriously, who's stretchier, Mr. fantastic or Elongated Man?

[Tanuki Tales]

I'll give it to Reed. He's shown more versatility in his stretching than Ralph, to my knowledge.

[Silver Swift]

C) Yankee Doodle (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cR-6rBpYz0)

*Clicks link*

*Watches clip*

*Stares at the screen for 5 minutes, stunned*

What the hell did I just watch?

[Tanuki Tales]

*Clicks link*

*Watches clip*

*Stares at the screen for 5 minutes, stunned*

What the hell did I just watch?

Uncle Sam is the living Avatar of the United States of America. The more patriotism, hope, etc. that is felt by the American people the stronger he becomes (to the point of punking Superman and potentially going toe to toe with The Spectre).

I guess it just works in general for the country he's in/planet he's on for Batman: The Brave and The Bold.

[BWR]

More specifically, he's the living embodiment of patriotism, freedom and democracy (because obviously the US is the ultimate embodiment of these things) and he's on an alien planet to fight evil space commies.

It's the one episode of B:TBATB that has me wondering if it's just pure genius or taking the Silver Age mentality just a little too seriously. I think it might just be pure genius.

[Emmerask]

I for one echo your super-hatred.

I dont particularly hate him... I just think he is the most boring superhero there is (well that I know of).

[Fan]

I dont particularly hate him... I just think he is the most boring superhero there is (well that I know of).

You clearly don't read comics.

The most boring heroes are mostly from The Legion of Superheroes.

[Tanuki Tales]

You clearly don't read comics.

The most boring heroes are mostly from The Legion of Superheroes.

Now Fan, that's not fair. Some Superman comics are just as poorly written as any other characters and he can come off wooden and boring in such issues.

[Ravens_cry]

Now Fan, that's not fair. Some Superman comics are just as poorly written as any other characters and he can come off wooden and boring in such issues.
And some are some of the best comics ever created. Generally, they are about how he deals with the cards life handed to him, who the Man of Steel is as man, rather than simply, 'Superman beats bad guy, huzzah'.

[Tanuki Tales]

And some are some of the best comics ever created. Generally, they are about how he deals with the cards life handed to him, who the Man of Steel is as man, rather than simply, 'Superman beats bad guy, huzzah'.

Exactly.

It doesn't take much work to make a decent or good Batman comic. It takes a lot of work to make a decent or good Superman comic.

[Ravens_cry]

Exactly.

It doesn't take much work to make a decent or good Batman comic. It takes a lot of work to make a decent or good Superman comic.
I wouldn't call Batman easy to write for. There have been notable flubs by creators who had earlier succeeded.
*cough* Frank Miller *cough*.
However, he is versatile in tone. Batman can work in pure ham and cheese like the Silver Age, the 60's TV show, and Batman: Brave and the Bold, more serious work like the Batman the Animated series that isn't ashamed to use an illustrated medium's potential for the fantastic, as well as gritty and realist work, like the Nolanverse.
Like I said, Batman fits a variety of tones.
Superman, on the other hand, tends be harder to pitch right. Too hammy, and he feels wooden and static, too gritty, and he feels less heroic. It takes quite fine tuning to make him work.

[Tanuki Tales]

I wouldn't call Batman easy to write for. There have been notable flubs by creators who had earlier succeeded.
*cough* Frank Miller *cough*.
However, he is versatile in tone. Batman can work in pure ham and cheese like the Silver Age, the 60's TV show, and Batman: Brave and the Bold, more serious work like the Batman the Animated series that isn't ashamed to use an illustrated medium's potential for the fantastic, as well as gritty and realist work, like the Nolanverse.
Like I said, Batman fits a variety of tones.
Superman, on the other hand, tends be harder to pitch right. Too hammy, and he feels wooden and static, too gritty, and he feels less heroic. It takes quite fine tuning to make him work.

I didn't mean he was easy to write for, just easier.

And I meant more how you can put Batman up against difficult or insurmountable odds and having him succeed against those odds can make a decent or good Batman comic. But you can't do that with Superman since you know only team book villains will actually overcome him "realistically".

[Kitten Champion]

I would contend Captain Planet is more boring than Superman. I don't even know what he is, and neither do his show or comics. He doesn't have a personality outside of being... punny? Punny and sanctimonious.

I wouldn't normally include him since his show ended years ago and if I measured every short-lived superhero against Superman it would just be tedious, but he is getting a movie.

[Emmerask]

I would contend Captain Planet is more boring than Superman. I don't even know what he is, and neither do his show or comics. He doesn't have a personality outside of being... punny? Punny and sanctimonious.

I wouldn't normally include him since his show ended years ago and if I measured every short-lived superhero against Superman it would just be tedious, but he is getting a movie.

Though captain planet is not quite the same as a normal character, I would call him more an obnoxious construct summoned by the """"superheroes"""" and dismissed shortly after doing his work.^^

So to me a lot closer to a power-rangers robot (zort? whatever the name was) then to an actual character.

[ScrambledBrains]

So to me a lot closer to a power-rangers robot (zort? whatever the name was) then to an actual character.

Considering he's made up of all the individual elements(Which are the closest analogue to Zords), Captain Planet is more like a MegaZord.

*Tucks away 'I love Power Rangers' flag in box of shame.* :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

[Traab]

I would contend Captain Planet is more boring than Superman. I don't even know what he is, and neither do his show or comics. He doesn't have a personality outside of being... punny? Punny and sanctimonious.

I wouldn't normally include him since his show ended years ago and if I measured every short-lived superhero against Superman it would just be tedious, but he is getting a movie.

The thing is, captain planet, at least in the old cartoon, wasnt a main character. Like Emmer said, he was basically a megazord from power rangers. There to win the final stage of the episodes big battle for the good guys, then to go away.

Speaking of captain, am I the only one who viewed him as being a singularly BAD idea to summon most of the time? The dude is weakened by pollution, and they summon him to fight massive things producing lots of pollution. Its like hiring superman to clear out massive fields of kryptonite. And not giving him a suit to wear.

[Kitten Champion]

The thing is, captain planet, at least in the old cartoon, wasnt a main character. Like Emmer said, he was basically a megazord from power rangers. There to win the final stage of the episodes big battle for the good guys, then to go away.

That's how boring he is, he's can't even hold a whole show on his own, a show where he's the titular character. At least Superman is slightly more interesting than anything involving Lois Lane, Perry White, and Jimmy Olsen.



Speaking of captain, am I the only one who viewed him as being a singularly BAD idea to summon most of the time? The dude is weakened by pollution, and they summon him to fight massive things producing lots of pollution. Its like hiring superman to clear out massive fields of kryptonite. And not giving him a suit to wear.

More to the point, they're fighting corporate polluters... not really super-villains per say. I can't help but think control over the five classical elements would be all the power they'd ever need. Sadly, they're the least imaginative super-sentai Benetton could think up.

[Fjolnir]

Really as far as "corporate polluters" goes on Captain Planet you really only had Looten Plunder and Hoggish Greedly (who both like their condor eggs scrambled Btw) most of the others are straight enviromental threats or terrorists...

[Aotrs Commander]

but he is getting a movie.

Wait, what?

[Ravens_cry]

Really as far as "corporate polluters" goes on Captain Planet you really only had Looten Plunder and Hoggish Greedly (who both like their condor eggs scrambled Btw) most of the others are straight enviromental threats or terrorists...
Unfortunately, the sheer goofiness of the villains rather undermined the message in my opinion. It's hard to show at companies that pollute don't do it for clownish, moustache twirling villainy but because of unenlightened self interest when your villains are, well, clownish moustache twirling villains.
One bit of trivia is that Duke Nukem the computer game character was briefly retitled Duke Nukum to avoid a potential lawsuit due to the Captain Planet named the former.

[Lord Magtok]

It is if you're reading Red Son.

Maybe.

Also Lex Luthor: Man of Steel. Definitely worth a look if you're in that camp.

[Dienekes]

Also Lex Luthor: Man of Steel. Definitely worth a look if you're in that camp.

Sorta, it's a great comic. But despite all Lexy's philosophizing and clear biases, Lex commits multiple murders including a school full of children, betrays his closest allies, and frames people for crimes they didn't commit. While Superman only helps people the entire time.

It's just a statement to how good the writing is and how convincing Azzarello got Lexy's tone that makes you like the guy and see, for just a second, his point of view. And considering that was Lexy's goal throughout the comic, that makes the whole thing work on many levels.