Thrallherd+Cocoon+Cocoon of Life item?

[unseenmage]

How much to build a sarcophagus Wondrous Architecture (SBG) that uses the spells Cocoon (MoF) then uses Cocoon of Life (SC listed as Cocoon) repeatedly on a Thrallherd's (EPH) believer thrall?

Though neat, does this really even net that much gain?

What about using half a Thrallherd's believers this way to fuel bonuses for the other half?

[Fouredged Sword]

Well, it's worth +4 to each stat, 4 ranks in each skill, and a ton of level one spell slots.

And you just spent a whole lot of money and became very evil.

[unseenmage]

Well, it's worth +4 to each stat, 4 ranks in each skill, and a ton of level one spell slots.

And you just spent a whole lot of money and became very evil.

Well you were already a Thrallherd and they do suffer from Absolute Power disease.

And if you're cheesing the believers then they all come with their own gear which potentially pays for the sarcophagi all on their own.

[Fouredged Sword]

I just don't see the direct benifit to a thrallherd. Yes, a red wizard would love this, but a thrallherd doesn't benifit from spell slots.

Maybe if you dipped a fixed list caster who knows all their spells, then hunted down spellcasters to fill out slots.

Ok, I now have my next druid/wizard duel progression villain. NE and loving it. :smallbiggrin:

[unseenmage]

I just don't see the direct benifit to a thrallherd. Yes, a red wizard would love this, but a thrallherd doesn't benifit from spell slots.

Maybe if you dipped a fixed list caster who knows all their spells, then hunted down spellcasters to fill out slots.

Ok, I now have my next druid/wizard duel progression villain. NE and loving it. :smallbiggrin:

Oh the Thrallherd was just included for their "psychic field" which controls their thralls. Any other means of domination/control I could think of wouldn't carry over through the Reincarnate.

Nice idea for the druid/wiz villain. That sounds awesome.

[Fouredged Sword]

Really, if you dipped a single level in a class with a fixed list of spells they know at each level or in wizard (who can write down spells of any level) you can then fill in spell slots without requiring advancing that classes spell casting.

A wizard 1 / psion X / thrallherd 1 would be able to farm 1st/2nd/3rd level spell slots to your heart's content.

[Nettlekid]

I agree, I'm not sure I get what's so awesome about this that Mass Animal's Thing wouldn't do much the same. However, when I first glanced at this topic, it made me think of the Body Leech (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040925a) PrC, what with the cocoons and draining/killing your enveloped prey and all. Might that have potential to be comboed with the SC Cocoon?

[Psyren]

I agree, I'm not sure I get what's so awesome about this that Mass Animal's Thing wouldn't do much the same. However, when I first glanced at this topic, it made me think of the Body Leech (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040925a) PrC, what with the cocoons and draining/killing your enveloped prey and all. Might that have potential to be comboed with the SC Cocoon?

I instantly thought of Thrallherd/Body Leech as well. Shove your Beliebers believers into cocoons and you gain a ton of bonus PP, plus you can make one of them (your choice) into a living phylactery.

What's really neat is that a Body Leech can have both a Cheat Death cocoon and an Astral Seed prepared. You can choose to use the Cocoon first if things look grim (negative HP) or you can hedge your bet and wait for actual death before the Seed fires. Such a psion would be very hard to kill.

[Fouredged Sword]

That and you would be able to manifest true mindswitch without requiring the target to fail a save. Find a nice, physically powerful target, cocoon it, boost your will save, and switch bodies.

[Nettlekid]

For a while now I've wanted to DM a campaign where it looks like the heroes are thwarting an evil cult of Psions, all willing to die for their cause, when in reality it's just a single Body Leech and many cocoons. Perhaps he takes the princess of the kingdom hostage, they defeat him, rescue the princess, and bring her into the palace...and then she starts acting strangely...

[unseenmage]

For a while now I've wanted to DM a campaign where it looks like the heroes are thwarting an evil cult of Psions, all willing to die for their cause, when in reality it's just a single Body Leech and many cocoons. Perhaps he takes the princess of the kingdom hostage, they defeat him, rescue the princess, and bring her into the palace...and then she starts acting strangely...

If this were a Facebook post I'd be mashing the "like" button.

Why is it that so many of my threads evolve into future BBEG discussions. :smalleek:

[Segev]

...huh. The Body Leech and his abiltiy to use a cocoon to escape death requires that the victim within be no higher in HD than the Leech's ML, just like for True Mind Switch.

Do negative levels - which lower effective level for any calculation or die roll - lower hit dice for this calculation?

To make it simpler: if I have ML 9 and want to Mind Switch with a 15 HD Mountain Troll, can I hit him with 6 negative levels in order to render him vulnerable to it?

[unseenmage]

...huh. The Body Leech and his abiltiy to use a cocoon to escape death requires that the victim within be no higher in HD than the Leech's ML, just like for True Mind Switch.

Do negative levels - which lower effective level for any calculation or die roll - lower hit dice for this calculation?

To make it simpler: if I have ML 9 and want to Mind Switch with a 15 HD Mountain Troll, can I hit him with 6 negative levels in order to render him vulnerable to it?

Technically yes, but it's considered cheese.

[Nettlekid]

Technically yes, but it's considered cheese.

Is there any way besides just taking Practiced Manifester lots of times to increase your ML to your HD, because that would be a great way to just keep getting stronger.

A question, though, if you Mind Switch into the body of say, a Cave Troll, but you still have all your psionics levels, do you add the RHD of the Troll with your class levels to gain your current ECL, or does one replace the other?

[Psyren]

Is there any way besides just taking Practiced Manifester lots of times to increase your ML to your HD, because that would be a great way to just keep getting stronger.

Anything that increases CL (regardless of type) increases ML. Orange Ioun Stone, Bead of Karma, Arcanist's Ring, Vial of the Last Gasp etc.



A question, though, if you Mind Switch into the body of say, a Cave Troll, but you still have all your psionics levels, do you add the RHD of the Troll with your class levels to gain your current ECL, or does one replace the other?

I would imagine your ECL would increase, so it's best to do this after you've already acquired 9th-level powers so as not to hurt your progression.

[Nettlekid]

Anything that increases CL (regardless of type) increases ML. Orange Ioun Stone, Bead of Karma, Arcanist's Ring, Vial of the Last Gasp etc.



I would imagine your ECL would increase, so it's best to do this after you've already acquired 9th-level powers so as not to hurt your progression.

Psyren, love the new avvie!

And ah, I guess what I should have said was, is there any way to get your ML to increase proportionally to your HD in some way. Like, to have an ML equal to half your HD, or 3/4, or whatever. That way, if you keep stealing the bodies of stronger and stronger creatures, your ML keeps increasing too.

[Fouredged Sword]

One could use the psionic version of the abjurant champion that was suggested on some sidebar somewhere. That sets your ML to your BAB, then use divine power learned as SPT erudite to set your BAB to your HD. Then you use prayer beads, ione stones, and overchannel to get +10 or so ML over your HD.

One could very easily leap from into very high level bodies.

[Psyren]

Psyren, love the new avvie!

Why thank you!


One could use the psionic version of the abjurant champion that was suggested on some sidebar somewhere. That sets your ML to your BAB, then use divine power learned as SPT erudite to set your BAB to your HD. Then you use prayer beads, ione stones, and overchannel to get +10 or so ML over your HD.

One could very easily leap from into very high level bodies.

Psychokinetic Champion is described in CC pg. 52 - and yes, that would be a pretty nasty trick. One for the handbook even. (Did I mention Erudites can easily enter both Thrallherd and Body Leech?)