New party, new party roles?

[Jajama]

Hey all,

So, a group of mine is planning on starting a new campaign soon, that's planning on going from levels 1 to 20, and I'll be DMing. No one in the group is anything more than mid-op (mostly due to laziness and flavor), but the party composition is going to be one Cleric, one Druid, one Wizard, and one Psion. Pretty much all sourcebooks are open (no magazines), but we seem to be trending to just taking all 20 levels in those classes. Also, full psionics/magic transparency is in effect, and Leadership/Thrallherd are banned (bookkeeping reasons).

Either way, you see the problem. Staying with specific roles is going to be a challenge! The guy playing the Cleric will be the party's tank (melee), the Druid was thinking of being more of a striker/glass cannon type character, and the girl playing the Psion is thinking of going Egoist (since no Thrallherd), but otherwise isn't really sure of what role she wants to play.

With those things in mind, I have some questions for you, to see what advice I should give:

1) How should the cleric make the most use of his feats and spells? While being the party's beatstick is nice, he may want to look for things to do besides self-buffing and fighting that don't take up too many feat/spell slots. What would you recommend?

2) Similarly, the Druid isn't sure how to make the most of his character, except to take Natural Spell. Best striker Druid ideas?

3) What roles should the Psion and Wizard take? While I understand that all of these classes can fulfill pretty much any party role given the right spells/powers/whatever, the two want to specialize in something different. What are some good suggestions for them?

Thanks!

[Galvin]

1. If Forgotten Realms allowed, then the cleric could worship Dumathoin and pick up the Metal Domain. The special domain power is granting profeciency with ANY martial or exotic hammer weapon. Get a good two handed maul and a buckler to be the beatstick. If the cleric is good aligned, then he wouldn't have to prepare anything other than self buffs, and then just convert them to Cure X Wounds spells as needed.

2. A druid can be a very fun class to play, regardless of build and stuff. You could do a wildshape focus build and take Natural Spell, as you always should, and just grind in melee as a polar bear, or mayhaps an archer/ranged damage build. A 4th level druid can take a Dire Eagle from Races of Stone as an animal companion. It's large sized and can fly. Thus, any medium/small sized druid could fly on it. Use it to fly above the enemy, and rain down pointy hell.

3. If the wizard wants to fully optimize, he should be a Conjurer and swap out his familiar for the ACF that is presented in Players Handbook II. Direct him to Treantmonklvl20's Guide to Wizards and LogicNinja's Guide to Wizards: Being Batman, right here on the forums. Those present nice links and material for a wizard.

The Psion could focus more on group buffs, as the cleric might be buffing himself, instead of the group, with a secondary focus on blasting.

With this, the cleric is up front, taking the damage, along with a summoned critter from the Conjurer, all buffed up from the cleric and psion, with the druid raining arrows and Call Lightning spells down.

There ya go! Hope I helped.

[Jajama]

Thanks, Galvin, that's a pretty big help! Although, we haven't decided if setting-specific material will be used at this point, but it hasn't been ruled out. Just that our group hasn't come to a consensus as of yet. But, the closer to core options, the better!

I notice also that our party lacks a skill monkey... would it be better for the Wizard to take up that role, and if so does playing as a Conjurer help more with that? I can imagine that if there's a particular problem that can't be solved with the players at hand, a summon monster/nature's ally could get something that could, no?

With regards to the Psion, would it make any difference if she was to consider something other than Egoist, such as Seer or Shaper? They may be considered suboptimal, but again it's more about the role the player has rather than being able to do everything.

[Galvin]

A skill monkey isn't crucial. A bag of rocks or a Summon Monster X spell can take out traps, and Dispel Magic can remove magical traps.

A conjurer is more of a use than a skillmonkey.

A psion is useful no matter the discipline, though Egoist is more focused on buffs than others, and a psion can blast well regardless of the discipline chosen. Using mind control powers, the psion could take part of the "skillmonkey" role and take the role of party face.

A telepath could still be useful even if thrallherd isn't allowed. Telepaths get social skills as class skills, allowing for non magical influence of NPCs.

Hope I helped. Ask if you have any other questions.

[JaronK]

For the Druid, what you want is D. Just look in the D section of various monster books to find what you want to turn in to (Dire Animals, Dinosaurs, Desmoderu Hunting Bats, etc). While this isn't perfect, it's a pretty darn good start.

JaronK

[Jajama]

Haha, thanks to both of you! And I think that we'll end up doing most of what you describe, Galvin, since a Conjurer is pretty versatile in its own right (barred schools of magic notwithstanding, which the Wizard player has his own reservations on).

Now, we just need to work dinosaurs into our campaign...

[Galvin]

Glad I could help!

[Manly Man]

Haha, thanks to both of you! And I think that we'll end up doing most of what you describe, Galvin, since a Conjurer is pretty versatile in its own right (barred schools of magic notwithstanding, which the Wizard player has his own reservations on).

Now, we just need to work dinosaurs into our campaign...

A huge basin in an equatorial area of the world is sheltered from the rest of the planet by steep, jagged mountains all around it. While most of it is a huge, steamy jungle, there is a very small, very thin valley in the ring around the basin, and near it is a wasteland loaded with tar pits and rather unsavory creatures. The place is known of, but nobody is crazy enough to bother going there, and since the valley is pretty much the only practical way inside, not many people actually know what's past there.

Well, your players are brave enough- or perhaps foolish enough- to go and actually explore the place, since they heard a rumor that there was a large merchant ship that crashed there, and if any of the crew survived, they would have to be save (and questioned for the location of any remaining loot).

As soon as they breach the mountains and fall into the basin, they hear a loud roar, and see a tyrannosaurus rex; the Cleric says many things that would earn him a stern glance, the Druid falls in love, the Conjurer wants to catch it, and the Psion wants to dissect it.

[Jajama]

Well, Manly Man, that'll certainly give the old "Greyhawking" routine some extra spice.

Quick slightly related question: Item Creation Feats. Should anyone in the party actually bother taking them over Metamagic or other feats? Since everyone in the party is a full spellcaster and two of them have access to their entire list by default, should metamagics take priority over item creation? Note that Divine Metamagic will be allowed, and the Cleric player is planning on taking it as soon as he can. But the others? They seem to be on the fence.

[Galvin]

The wizard should take Craft Wondrous Item and maybe Craft Arms and Armor, those two being the most common magic item that you will ever need to craft, and getting them at half price will be nice. Be warned: Craft Arms and Armor will turn you into the party's sword making slave. However, you can make a decent profit by charging them 3/4 of the price for an item, making the item and keeping 1/4 of the item's cost for yourself.

If you want to go deeper into crafting, the Extrordinary Artisan from Ebberon can help, as well as the crafting feats from Dungeon Master's Guide II. I wouldn't recommend going that deep into crafting as a wizard. But those two crafting feats are nice.

P.S. NEVER craft charged items, they are a great way to waste money and xp.

[Galvin]

Oh, and yes, Metamagic and other feats come before Item Creation. If you have a spare slot, take it. But if you have another option that isn't Item Creation, take that instead.

[Fouredged Sword]

Another option would be to mix things up..

The cleric can use the trickery and kobold domains and be a divine spellcasting rogue.

The psion can be a shaper and summon one of the better tanks in the game, then go into crystal master for epic stats and share pain and vigor with his psycrystal to tank himself.

The wizard can go wizard 5 / ruthgar 1, 2, or 3 / abjurant champion / spellguard of the silvery moon and be the party striker / untouchable buffer passing out +10 AC shield spells as swift action.

The druid can invest in crafting feats and become a naturalist item crafter. Nothing says a druid can't make items of wood, leather, and stone for the party to use. He also has great battefield control spells, and he should use them.