Hellbred Questions

[Xuldarinar]

Just a few simple questions about the hell bred (FCII)

1: Aging. It is simply not clear as to the rate hellbred age. Granted that they are 'born' as adults, but they lack anything to state how long they can live after before dying of old age. Am I to assume they are an ageless species, immortal but leading short lives because they throw themselves into battle in hopes of redemption? Alternatively, do they all age the same as one race or even age the rate of the race they were previously?

2: Height and weight. It is simply not listed anywhere how tall they are or how heavy the get. This is accompanied by a lack of a size entry in their racial traits, which is very unusual. I can come up with only a few ways to take this; (a) Draw their size, weight, and height from what it was in their previous life (the sample hellbred, tybalt the cursed, was likely a human.), (b) base on humans or similar creature, or [c] somewhere there is an obscure but official table listing this sort of information.

3: Half Hellbred. A bit of speculation really. Could a half hell bred even exist? How would that work? Would the child of a human and a hell bred be human, hell bred, or something unique? Could you have half-dragon hellbred?

4: Undead hellbred. What kinds of undead could a hellbred become, if any?

[Rethmar]

100% my opinion, not from a source.

1&2: I'd likely just base it off of the base race, to most extent.

3. As the kind of punishment/trial that Hellbred is, I would definitely rule that they are incapable of producing offspring. (Their job is to prove they are good, and are intended to spend almost all of their time trying to prove that.)

4. The body (how I'd play it, at least) of a hellbred is manufactured for a purpose, and houses the subject's soul within. At death, being an outsider, I would rule that the soul is gone to (hell or heaven) and the body remains just a husk.

Haven't looked up the rules for animating outsiders, but if it's possible, I think I'd allow any of the physical bodied undead, such as zombies or skeletons. But with no semblance of spirit or soul, I'd avoid the spectres and shades.

Again, just my 2 copper. Feel free to disregard all of that if you disagree. :smallsmile:

[Xuldarinar]

100% my opinion, not from a source.

1&2: I'd likely just base it off of the base race, to most extent.

3. As the kind of punishment/trial that Hellbred is, I would definitely rule that they are incapable of producing offspring. (Their job is to prove they are good, and are intended to spend almost all of their time trying to prove that.)

4. The body (how I'd play it, at least) of a hellbred is manufactured for a purpose, and houses the subject's soul within. At death, being an outsider, I would rule that the soul is gone to (hell or heaven) and the body remains just a husk.

Haven't looked up the rules for animating outsiders, but if it's possible, I think I'd allow any of the physical bodied undead, such as zombies or skeletons. But with no semblance of spirit or soul, I'd avoid the spectres and shades.

Again, just my 2 copper. Feel free to disregard all of that if you disagree. :smallsmile:

All interesting points. I agree with 1-3 off the bat, they are all valid interpretations.

4. You have a good point, though; Hellbred are humanoid (hellbred),being outsiders would mean their body and soul are one unit (native outsiders are an exception however), and there are undead made from outsiders (Visages and Lichfiends from Librus Mortus).

[Rethmar]

Fair enough, you are correct.

Should have waited to check my sources before spouting, but was AFB. :smalltongue:

[Xuldarinar]

Well, time to add another question.

5: Evil Exception. Hellbred have a racial trait that allows them to cast evil spells regardless of their alignment, and to use evil aligned magic items without negative levels. Should this extend to other forms of magic? For instance, a hellbred incarnate being able to use evil soulmelds or a hellbred psion being able to use evil powers.

[Big Fau]

Well, time to add another question.

5: Evil Exception. Hellbred have a racial trait that allows them to cast evil spells regardless of their alignment, and to use evil aligned magic items without negative levels. Should this extend to other forms of magic? For instance, a hellbred incarnate being able to use evil soulmelds or a hellbred psion being able to use evil powers.

RAW, no. The rules for Evil Exception only apply to magic, and neither Soulmelds-Magic Transparency or Psionic-Magic Transparency extends to racial traits.

RAI, maybe. It wouldn't be that unbalancing to allow, and IIRC the only Psionic powers with the [Evil] tag are in Complete Psionics, which is a really bad book.

[Xuldarinar]

RAW, no. The rules for Evil Exception only apply to magic, and neither Soulmelds-Magic Transparency or Psionic-Magic Transparency extends to racial traits.

RAI, maybe. It wouldn't be that unbalancing to allow, and IIRC the only Psionic powers with the [Evil] tag are in Complete Psionics, which is a really bad book.

True, sometimes it is best to go with RAI over RAW. How would you run it?

[Psyren]

True, sometimes it is best to go with RAI over RAW. How would you run it?

It seems pretty simple to execute, at least to me:

- Hellbred Incarnum users can shape Soulmelds with the [Evil] descriptor regardless of their actual alignment.

- Each time they shape them, a Hellbred Incarnum user can choose to use the Evil version of a given soulmeld (e.g. Incarnate Avatar or Incarnate Weapon) or that pertaining to their actual alignment (if not NE.) Once a form is chosen, the meld remains in that form until reshaped.

- Hellbred manifesters can use [Evil] powers without any change to their alignment.