59+ Armor Class?

[Johnystoo]

So I wanted to make a really high armor class character for my friend's 2nd level campaign, but he only gives us 200gp to start, so I figured Monk is the way to go.
From the Forgotten Realms book, there's a Strongheart halfling, which basically trades the +1 to all saves for 1 bonus feat at first level.
So I got the Vow of Poverty with my starting two feats, and vow of nonviolence for the one that you get from VoP, and at level 3 I'll get vow of peace. With an 18 in Dex and Wis, the armor ends up looking like this:
10 (base) + 1 (size) + 4 (wis) + 5 (dex) + 5 (Vow of Poverty bonus) + 6 (Vow of Peace bonus), totaling up to 31 AC at level 3 without spending a copper. If you wanted to use total defense and just tank with a 35 AC (not that they'd have a +12 to hit at this level, anyway), only sacrificing the two 1d4 hits a halfling can throw in a round at -1/-1.
At level 20, if you chose wis and dex for two of the stat bonuses for Vow of Poverty and you only use those for your ability points as you level up, you could end up with a 54 AC if my math is correct. Then, with Combat Expertise, you can bump it up to a 59. Why you would ever want to, I don't know. Also, this is without wearing armor, so you move at 80 ft/round and an allied level 20 mage could buff you with mage armor, I'm sure, so there's that which can stack with it.
There are other cool bonuses and sad hindrances along the way, but the main thing I wanted to focus on here is the best way to max out armor on a budget WITHOUT level adjustment.
I'm thinking a prestiege class could bump it up, but a 59 AC, even at level 20, it's pretty impressive (though useless at a certain point, I suppose).

[Spuddles]

Congratulations, your character is no longer a threat, contributes nothing during fights, and soaks up xp and gp like a worthless sponge.

[gorfnab]

Here is a Fighting Defensively build I came up with a while ago. With the right items and decent Int and Dex you can achieve an AC of 90+ at level 20.


Human or Strongheart Halfling
1. Cobra Strike (UA) Deceptive Strike (PHBII) Monk - Camendine Monk, Combat Expertise, B: Dodge
2. Cobra Strike (UA) Monk - B: Mobility
3. Swashbuckler - Deadly Defense, B: Weapon Finesse
4. Swashbuckler
5. Swashbuckler
6. Thief Acrobat - Combat Reflexes
7. Thief Acrobat
8. Thief Acrobat
9. Thief Acrobat - Einhander
10. Thief Acrobat
11. Warblade
12. Warblade or Duelist - Ironheart Aura
13. Duelist
14. Duelist
15. Duelist - Robilar's Gambit
16. Duelist
17. Duelist
18. Duelist - Stormgaurd Warrior
19. Duelist
20. Duelist

Levels 10 through 12 can be rearranged depending on your needs. The current setup gives you Improved Evasion and Uncanny Dodge at these levels. However if you don't need Improved Evasion take one less level of Thief Acrobat and move the first level of Warblade to level 10. If you don't need Uncanny Dodge don't take the 2nd level of Warblade and instead go into Duelist a level early. If you don't need either abilities take Warblade at level 10 and enter Duelist at level 11.

If flaws are available pick up EWP: Broadblade Shortsword (pre-errata version if possible) or Versatile Unarmed Strike and Snap Kick (may need to rearrange later feats). If traits are available pick up Cautious.

The Monk and Swashbuckler levels (levels 1 through 5) can be switched around to taste. I personally like Swash 1/ Monk 2/ Swash 2

Items of note:
Vest of Defense (MIC)
Defensive Surge Weapon (MIC)
Bracers of Blocking (Dragon 322)

[Nettlekid]

Actually to be honest at level 20 an AC of 59 isn't all that impressive, because any character can pick up a Monk's Belt, get an item of or cast Sirene's Grace and/or take a dip into Battledancer (gets Cha to AC the same way Monk gets Wis, from Dragon Compendium), get a few Wis, Cha, and Dex boosts, and in general use any of the tricks on the X Stat to Y Bonus chart to get a really high AC. I've just statted out a level 20 character for a friend's campaign, and ancillary bonuses ended up bring its normal AC to 68, with a Touch AC of 42.

Also Mage Armor grants an Armor Bonus, which VoP states doesn't stack with its own bonuses. A Shield bonus would stack though, if you could get that somehow without breaking VoP.

But at level 3, you are quite right, an AC of 31 is nothing to sneeze at. Personally, I kind of like VoP, even though a lot of people here will fume at it. But I do have to ask, what are you going to do to help the party? Monks aren't great skillmonkeys or party faces. They're a melee class that does melee worse than other melee classes, and you're much more defensive than offensive. Except that there's no reason for your enemy to attack you, so that high AC doesn't help you from those non-attacks.

But in any case, if your goal is to have a high AC, then you've done what you set out to do!

[angry_bear]

Congratulations, your character is no longer a threat, contributes nothing during fights, and soaks up xp and gp like a worthless sponge.

So what if he's playing a monk, look at the armour class he's got. :smallwink:

In all seriousness, while it's kind of neat that you got such a high AC; I'm not really sure how you'll be able to utilize it in any meaningful way. I guess you can go as a meat shield, but you won't do much besides stand around while taking hits...

You could just as easily be a major damage dealer, or skill monkey at that level with the right splat books. But that's just my preference, if you want to be a shield, more power to ya.

[Spuddles]

Druid3/wizard1/mystic theurge 2/arcane hierophant 10/mystic theurge 4. use partial BAB to qualify.

Use ACFs to trade out your familiar, wildshape, and animal companion. Arcane Hierophant gives all thse back. If you want a pet at level 1, wild cohort is a good way to go.

In particular, get the druid ACF that trades wildshape for a monk's AC bonus, among other things.

Wildshape into something with a high natural armor class. Have wisdom to ac. Cast owl's insight for 1/2 caster level to wisdom. Use greater luminous armor for +8 armor bonus. Use wizard spells to cast shield.

Still have nearly full wizard & druid casting. End up with 9th level spells. There's even room for VoP.

[Big Fau]

but you won't do much besides stand around while taking hits...

Assuming anything ever bothers to attack him. The problem with having a high AC is that the character often has no way to force enemies to waste their turns attacking him, and even dipping into the Knight class or using the Goad feat isn't enough to help this. Those abilities are single-target effects that allow a saving throw to resist and the creature can just target you with a spell that doesn't require an attack roll or allow a saving throw to bypass the effect anyway.

Being a turtle != Being a tank.

[eggynack]

In particular, get the druid ACF that trades wildshape for a monk's AC bonus, among other things.

Wildshape into something with a high natural armor class. Have wisdom to ac. Cast owl's insight for 1/2 caster level to wisdom. Use greater luminous armor for +8 armor bonus. Use wizard spells to cast shield.

These two things seem rather incompatible. You should just pick up a monk's belt. Monk AC bonus is rather sweet when it's not tied to a monk.

[Spuddles]

These two things seem rather incompatible. You should just pick up a monk's belt. Monk AC bonus is rather sweet when it's not tied to a monk.

Arcane hierophant gets you wildshape back, RAW. Abusive, unintended, and cheesy, but RAW.

[eggynack]

Arcane hierophant gets you wildshape back, RAW. Abusive, unintended, and cheesy, but RAW.
Huh. I guess it kinda does. That's pretty weird.

[Xuldarinar]

While this is interesting, there are some problems.


Vow of Poverty: You cannot own anything besides a set of non-magical clothes (no armor), a material pouch (for spell casters that need them) and a non-magical simple weapon. You cannot use, own, nor even borrow magical items.

Vow of Nonviolence: You cannot cause harm to humanoid or monstrous humanoid foes (Non-lethal damage only). Furthermore, you cannot allow your allies to kill such a foe or it will count the same as if you had killed them, thus losing you the feat forever.

Vow of Peace: Same issue as nonviolence, except stricter and it now extends to all living creatures (constructs and undead are still fair game).

[Nettlekid]

Arcane hierophant gets you wildshape back, RAW. Abusive, unintended, and cheesy, but RAW.

Sorry, are we completely ignoring "If you do not already possess the ability,
you gain no new ability to wild shape"? I know that you're about to say that the next sentence invalidates that, but since you're using the Druid ACF which gets rid of Wild Shape, but it's still Druid, and now that's what Druid is for you, then you get the Wild Shaping of a Druid of a Druid+Arcane Hierophant level, which will be none, because a Druid of any level has no Wild Shape, because whatever you call Druid does not have Wild Shape. And really, that first sentence is rather unambiguous.

[Chronos]

Giving you only 200 GP to start does not mean that you'll be limited to that for your entire career. Even if you can't afford good armor right this moment, you probably will be able to after the first adventure. That's not a good reason to take Vow of Poverty.

[Spuddles]

Sorry, are we completely ignoring "If you do not already possess the ability,
you gain no new ability to wild shape"? I know that you're about to say that the next sentence invalidates that, but since you're using the Druid ACF which gets rid of Wild Shape, but it's still Druid, and now that's what Druid is for you, then you get the Wild Shaping of a Druid of a Druid+Arcane Hierophant level, which will be none, because a Druid of any level has no Wild Shape, because whatever you call Druid does not have Wild Shape. And really, that first sentence is rather unambiguous.

Wildshape of A druid, not YOUR druid.

[Snowbluff]

Wildshape of A druid, not YOUR druid.

This is consistent with the ways I rule things (SotWR, Tashalatora). The good news about this is that you have the level of your ArcHeir + Druid, meaning I don't get to tell you to Polymorph instead.

If not, you can always grab a level's worth of Divine Minion as a Neraph or something.

[Nettlekid]

Wildshape of A druid, not YOUR druid.

A Druid as it related to your character does not have Wild Shape. No level of Druid will give you Wild Shape. Add your Druid and Arcane Hierophant levels together, so if you're a Druid 5 and Arcane Hierophant 5 then you count as a Druid 10. If you had taken 10 levels of Druid instead of 5 of Arcane Hierophant, you would not have Wild Shape. So replacing 5 levels of Druid with 5 levels of Arcane Hierophant does not give you Wild Shape.

"If you do not already possess the ability, you gain no new ability to wild shape." That is entirely unambiguous.

[Xuldarinar]

A Druid as it related to your character does not have Wild Shape. No level of Druid will give you Wild Shape. Add your Druid and Arcane Hierophant levels together, so if you're a Druid 5 and Arcane Hierophant 5 then you count as a Druid 10. If you had taken 10 levels of Druid instead of 5 of Arcane Hierophant, you would not have Wild Shape. So replacing 5 levels of Druid with 5 levels of Arcane Hierophant does not give you Wild Shape.

"If you do not already possess the ability, you gain no new ability to wild shape." That is entirely unambiguous.

To further elaborate, allow me. Assuming a 15th level character:

{table=head]Class levels|Wildshape level
Druid 3/Wizard 5/Arcane Hierophant 7|0
Druid 4/Wizard 4/Arcane Hierophant 7|0
Druid 5/Wizard 3/Arcane Hierophant 7|12 [/table]

Keep in mind the requirements.

Base Attack Bonus: +4
Skills: Knowledge (arcane) 8 ranks, Knowledge (nature) 8 ranks.
Spells: Ability to cast 2nd-level arcane spells and 2nd-level divine spells
Special: Trackless step class feature

[Mithril Leaf]

Or you can be a Kalshatar Ardent with Quori embedded shards pumping 63 PP into intertial armor for 46 hours of +34 AC, grab a monk's belt for your solid Wis going to your AC, and enjoy similar levels of Armor Class while being a full manifester with near full WBL.

[Nettlekid]

To further elaborate, allow me. Assuming a 15th level character:

{table=head]Class levels|Wildshape level
Druid 3/Wizard 5/Arcane Hierophant 7|0
Druid 4/Wizard 4/Arcane Hierophant 7|0
Druid 5/Wizard 3/Arcane Hierophant 7|12 [/table]

No, no, I understand where he's going with it, and that he's saying that "Even though my Druid can't get Wild Shape, because it says you get Wild Shape as a Druid, you get it." And I disagree with that. I see it as progressing Wild Shape that you have, but if you've given it up, then it isn't progressed. If it said that you GET Wild Shape, and Druid levels stack to determine its potency, then I'd say you'd get it but Druid levels don't stack. But because this class quite unambiguously says that if you couldn't Wild Shape, you don't gain any ability to do so, then...If you couldn't Wild Shape, you don't gain any ability to do so.

[Hytheter]

Note that Vow of Peace and Vow of Poverty don't stack the armour bonuses particularly well. Since both provide an Exalted bonus, only the higher bonus counts. Same goes for the deflection bonus. Only the Natural Armour stacks iirc.

Although, having vow of Poverty does increase the Vow of Peace's effects by +2, which helps.

Overall, at level 3 its
+5 Exalted Bonus from Poverty
+4 Deflection Bonus from Peace
+4 Natural Armour from Peace
+5 DEX
+4 WIS
+1 Size
which is actually slightly higher at 33 AC

but at level 20 its
+10 Exalted Bonus from Poverty
+4 Deflection Bonus from Peace
+4 Natural Armour from PEace
+2 Natural Armour from Poverty
+9 DEX
+9 WIS
+1 Size

Which is only 39, unless I'm mistaken

Mage Armor does stack to my knowledge though, its an Armor bonus, not an Exalted/Deflection/Natural Armor bonus

[awa]

a level 20 druid could run around as a titan for 13 hours a day and have an ac of 28 from just that spell. and as a titan you are actually useful in a fist fight unlike a monk
(and that's all just with just core)

[Spuddles]

This is consistent with the ways I rule things (SotWR, Tashalatora). The good news about this is that you have the level of your ArcHeir + Druid, meaning I don't get to tell you to Polymorph instead.

If not, you can always grab a level's worth of Divine Minion as a Neraph or something.

I use the same ruling to nix shadow miracles and battle blessed prestige paladins, but it's been awhile since I've dmed that level of tomfoolery.


To further elaborate, allow me. Assuming a 15th level character:

{table=head]Class levels|Wildshape level
Druid 3/Wizard 5/Arcane Hierophant 7|0
Druid 4/Wizard 4/Arcane Hierophant 7|0
Druid 5/Wizard 3/Arcane Hierophant 7|12 [/table]

Keep in mind the requirements.

Base Attack Bonus: +4
Skills: Knowledge (arcane) 8 ranks, Knowledge (nature) 8 ranks.
Spells: Ability to cast 2nd-level arcane spells and 2nd-level divine spells
Special: Trackless step class feature


No, no, I understand where he's going with it, and that he's saying that "Even though my Druid can't get Wild Shape, because it says you get Wild Shape as a Druid, you get it." And I disagree with that. I see it as progressing Wild Shape that you have, but if you've given it up, then it isn't progressed. If it said that you GET Wild Shape, and Druid levels stack to determine its potency, then I'd say you'd get it but Druid levels don't stack. But because this class quite unambiguously says that if you couldn't Wild Shape, you don't gain any ability to do so, then...If you couldn't Wild Shape, you don't gain any ability to do so.

The second line contradicts the first, but not entirely. It even gives an example of druid 3/wizard3/ah4 that wildshapes as a level 7 druid. You guys are getting hung up on the first sentence without reading the second. They are not mutually exclusive and can both be true.

The way the class is written, it grants benefits for class features based on the possession of levels, not actual class features. Your wizard levels dont need a familiar class feature to stack with your companion familiar, for instance. You just get arcane caster levels to count as faniliar levels.

[Snowbluff]

I use the same ruling to nix shadow miracles and battle blessed prestige paladins, but it's been awhile since I've dmed that level of tomfoolery.

I've never had to nerf Tash and the like, since no one would use it. I have had to nerf Aptitude Weapon, even though I prefer it making weapons more inclusively, because my little brother has most of my building skill, but none of my restraint.

I like feat combos and generally juicy feats, probably because I've played so much fighter earlier in my career. In general I feel bad when a feat gets nerfed as it represents a large portion of the customization of each character.

:smalltongue:

[Nettlekid]

You guys are getting hung up on the first sentence without reading the second. They are not mutually exclusive and can both be true.

That's really not true. The first sentence states an absolute, with no qualifier. That's really the end of the story. It's like an "and" statement in computing; if the first part doesn't apply, nothing the second can do will fix it.

[Spuddles]

That's really not true. The first sentence states an absolute, with no qualifier. That's really the end of the story. It's like an "and" statement in computing; if the first part doesn't apply, nothing the second can do will fix it.

No, that is not how english works. That's not even how programming works. I'm pretty sure I could write that rules text in SQL and I can barely get R copypasta to work.

[Nettlekid]

No, that is not how english works. That's not even how programming works. I'm pretty sure I could write that rules text in SQL and I can barely get R copypasta to work.

If the lines were "If you do not already possess the ability, you gain no new ability to wild shape. However, if you already possessed the ability, you add
your arcane hierophant level to your druid level and gain the wild shape ability of a druid of the resulting level" then that would be clearer, sure, but the meaning is the same. The Arcane Hierophant's Wild Shape class feature cannot be used to gain Wild Shape, and the entire class feature cannot be used if the character going into it doesn't have Wild Shape already. Nothing in the following lines contradicts the first line.

[Spuddles]

Hell, the basic rule "specific trumps general" solves this issue: generally no one gets wild shape. Specifically, druid levels stack for the purposes of wildshape.

[Nettlekid]

Hell, the basic rule "specific trumps general" solves this issue: generally no one gets wild shape. Specifically, druid levels stack for the purposes of wildshape.

Barring the fact that that argument is a complete misappropriation of "specific trumps general," it actually suggests that you WOULDN'T get it here. Druid levels normally stack for Wild Shape. Except yours aren't, because you took a variant that makes Druid levels not stack for Wild Shape. So now, no matter what your effective Druid level for Wild Shape, you get no Wild Shape because no Druid levels go toward it.

[Spuddles]

Barring the fact that that argument is a complete misappropriation of "specific trumps general," it actually suggests that you WOULDN'T get it here. Druid levels normally stack for Wild Shape. Except yours aren't, because you took a variant that makes Druid levels not stack for Wild Shape. So now, no matter what your effective Druid level for Wild Shape, you get no Wild Shape because no Druid levels go toward it.

That is a completely fair interpretation, and what I suspect would be intended, but not actually what the rules say.

[icefractal]

Or you can be a Kalshatar Ardent with Quori embedded shards pumping 63 PP into intertial armor for 46 hours of +34 AC, grab a monk's belt for your solid Wis going to your AC, and enjoy similar levels of Armor Class while being a full manifester with near full WBL.If you can get ML 63rd, then just Dominate anything not immune, and vaporize the rest. How are you getting ML 63rd, by the way? (Ok, ML 50-something with Overchannel, but still)

[Nettlekid]

That is a completely fair interpretation, and what I suspect would be intended, but not actually what the rules say.

The rules say, word for word, "If you do not already possess the ability,
you gain no new ability to wild shape." Like, I've heard some really spurious and purposely misapplied RAW to force obviously unintended meaning into the rules in the past, but that line up there seems entirely inflexible.

[Spuddles]

The rules say, word for word, "If you do not already possess the ability,
you gain no new ability to wild shape." Like, I've heard some really spurious and purposely misapplied RAW to force obviously unintended meaning into the rules in the past, but that line up there seems entirely inflexible.

It would be, if the proceeding rule wasn't "However, you add your arcane hierophant level to your druid level and gain the wild shape ability of a druid of the resulting level."

In case you are unfamiliar with what however means:

how·ev·er
/houˈevər/
Adverb
Used to introduce a statement that contrasts with or seems to contradict something that has been said previously.
In whatever way; regardless of how: "however you look at it, you can't criticize that".
Synonyms
howsoever - though - anyway - nevertheless - still

[TuggyNE]

Mage Armor does stack to my knowledge though, its an Armor bonus, not an Exalted/Deflection/Natural Armor bonus

IIRC, BoED specifies that Exalted bonuses to AC don't stack with Armor bonuses.


If you can get ML 63rd, then just Dominate anything not immune, and vaporize the rest. How are you getting ML 63rd, by the way? (Ok, ML 50-something with Overchannel, but still)

Quori Power Shards are one of the top five most broken items in 3.5. They allow you to bypass ML restrictions up to triple your usual ML.

[Nettlekid]

It would be, if the proceeding rule wasn't "However, you add your arcane hierophant level to your druid level and gain the wild shape ability of a druid of the resulting level."

In case you are unfamiliar with what however means:

how·ev·er
/houˈevər/
Adverb
Used to introduce a statement that contrasts with or seems to contradict something that has been said previously.
In whatever way; regardless of how: "however you look at it, you can't criticize that".
Synonyms
howsoever - though - anyway - nevertheless - still

You're interpreting that in that way, which takes it out of the realm of RAW, which is what your argument is based on. That word However could used to say "However, if you DO already possess the ability," to contrast the previous "If you do not already possess the ability."

[Spuddles]

"For example, a character who is a 3rd-level wizard/3rd-level druid/4th-level arcane hierophant has the wild shape ability of a 7th-level druid."

[Kristinn]

I think it's really ridiculous that people try to argue that Arcane Hierophant would give Wild Shape to a Druid that trades out his ability to Wild Shape.

As a counterexample, consider a Bamboo spirit folk Cleric/Wizard entering the class. The first line of Wild Shape clearly states he will get no such feature. But reading the second line, he should add his Druid level (0) to his AH level (X) to determine Wild Shape progression. So going by this ridiculous interpretation being argued here, he would get wild shape at his 5th AH level (0+5=5).

Also, you wouldn't get a Companion Familiar either if you trade away your Druid Animal Companion. The class description clearly states: "You may retain any one animal companion you already possess." If you don't already possess one you do not acquire a new one. The example below doesn't mean "Druid" as in any ACF Druid, but the Druid presented in the PHB.

I'm all for optimizing, it's great fun. But if it isn't rules legal it's just like trying to cheat against yourself.

[Nettlekid]

"For example, a character who is a 3rd-level wizard/3rd-level druid/4th-level arcane hierophant has the wild shape ability of a 7th-level druid."

Except yours wouldn't, yours, under your reading of the rules, would have the Wild Shape of a 4th level Druid, because your three actual druid levels don't go toward it, because you've given it away. (Okay, let's say Wizard 3/Druid 3/Arcane Hierophant 6, and under your rules, Druid level 6 for Wild Shape, because Druid 4 doesn't have Wild Shape anyway). So the book's example doesn't apply to your situation. And I go back to the first sentence of the ability.

[Spuddles]

Except yours wouldn't, yours, under your reading of the rules, would have the Wild Shape of a 4th level Druid, because your three actual druid levels don't go toward it, because you've given it away. (Okay, let's say Wizard 3/Druid 3/Arcane Hierophant 6, and under your rules, Druid level 6 for Wild Shape, because Druid 4 doesn't have Wild Shape anyway). So the book's example doesn't apply to your situation. And I go back to the first sentence of the ability.

You realize those are two separate arguments, yes?

The first you were making was simply an inability to read past the first line of text. The second is reading in the stacking of abilities progressed by a class, as opposed to what the rules really say- merely adding the levels of druid to arcane hierophant and getting the wildshape of a druid of the resulting level.

Arcane Hierophant isn't stacking wildshape ability with wildshape ability, like say, Enlightened Fist stacks/progresses a monk's unarmored bonus, nor is it progressing it. The rules simply give you a function that, under a specific set of circumstances, grants you the wildshape ability.

[Nettlekid]

You realize those are two separate arguments, yes?

The first you were making was simply an inability to read past the first line of text. The second is reading in the stacking of abilities progressed by a class, as opposed to what the rules really say- merely adding the levels of druid to arcane hierophant and getting the wildshape of a druid of the resulting level.

Arcane Hierophant isn't stacking wildshape ability with wildshape ability, like say, Enlightened Fist stacks/progresses a monk's unarmored bonus, nor is it progressing it. The rules simply give you a function that, under a specific set of circumstances, grants you the wildshape ability.

I know they're two different arguments. I was saying that the 'first line argument' solves the problem regardless, as there is nothing after the first line which contradicts it.

And you ARE stacking Wild Shape with Wild Shape. Arcane Hierophant level stack with Druid level to determine Wild Shape power. Except that your Druid doesn't gain Wild Shape, so a Druid+Arcane Hierophant doesn't gain Wild Shape either. And the first line argument supports that.

[thubby]

super tanky characters are best served tripping, disarming, and sundering people.
the checks are easier than attacks (usually), and the consequences are significant enough to force enemies to take different actions.

the spiked chain in particular makes for a good choice because it creates a large area enemies cant move through, it gives a bonus to the special attacks, and even the caster creature in the back can't do much without spell components

[icefractal]

Quori Power Shards are one of the top five most broken items in 3.5. They allow you to bypass ML restrictions up to triple your usual ML.*Reads Magic of Eberron*
Holy ****! Three times a day even! Who thought that was a good idea?
I'm even running an Eberron game right now. I could use these for a villain, but the players would think I was blatantly cheating. And they'd sort of be right!

[Xuldarinar]

While a high armor character has it's advantage, you need to be useful otherwise. For instance, The vows are powerful but leave you without magic items and make you unable to do lethal damage or allow the death of anything but undead and constructs. Unless your group is willing to work with this, or you are only up against the undead and/or constructs, you will lose the benefits of your feats -very- quickly.

[TuggyNE]

*Reads Magic of Eberron*
Holy ****! Three times a day even! Who thought that was a good idea?
I'm even running an Eberron game right now. I could use these for a villain, but the players would think I was blatantly cheating. And they'd sort of be right!

Yeah, it's right up there with dust of sneezing and choking, thought bottles, candles of invocation, and … nightsticks, I guess? Something like that.

1Back on topic, 59 AC is halfway decent at 20; CR 20 black dragons have +42 attack, completely unbuffed and featless, and the Tarrasque has a full +57. Enemies with class levels are likely to be rather swingier, but at least some could probably get to around +42 (BAB 20 + 13 [16 Str base + 4 level + 4 racial + 8 rage + 6 enhancement = 38] + 1 Weapon Focus + 5 enhancement + 1 from haste).

[Arael666]

I made this build to be a mindraped minion of a BBEG. It has high AC, high damage output, and high HP. While it's nothing that special, it might help in what you want to accomplish with your character.

barb 3 / Monk 3(undying way) / FotF 3 / Primeval 3;

The undying way will give you toughness and endurance, both are bad feats but prereq for FotF and Primeval. The 2 prestige classes have very similar prereq, wich is good.

You'll also need to quite a few skill points to qualify for those classes, so watch your int score.

CON and WIS to AC. All speed bonuses of the classes stack. Rage and feral trance can be activated at the same time and benefit from the new CON modifier to define duration, and since Primeval Form duration is linked to you primeval class level you'll use it first and them activate your rage+feral trance.


Rage: +4 STR, +4 CON, +2 Will, -2 AC

Feral Trance: +4 DEX, +2 Damage

Primeval Form(dire lion): +16 STR, +6 DEX, +8 CON, +6 Natural Armor

Total: +24 STR, +10 DEX, +12 CON, +6 NA

This is not taking into account magic items or VoP. The primeval class will also give you "regression" at levels 2, 5 and 8, granting you +1 to STR, DEX, CON, WIS and a -1 to INT each time.

Hope you like it

[Rebel7284]

Mongrelfolk Ranger 3/Stoneblessed[Dwarf] 3/Deepwarden 2/Fist of the Forest 1

Constitution:
+18 starting
+ 4 racial
+ 2 Stoneblessed
+ 2 level up bonuses
+ 4 enchancement

Con to AC twice.

Add a monk's belt, some bracers of armor, etc to taste.

I much like the mineral warrior template on this type of character.

[Chronos]

The other advantage to that is, even if you do get hit, you've got a ton of HP, so it doesn't much matter.

But don't forget Dragonborn.