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Yipyioh
2013-08-15, 09:20 PM
So I'm running a Star Wars: Saga Edition game with a few of my buddies. I, being a good storyteller but crappy actor, have decided to run it exclusively online via the Roll20 Virtual Tabletop. While this is working golden for me, there is one big drawback; it's difficult at times when multiple people are trying to talk as the chat will show *(Character Name) is typing* but until they get it all typed out they can't "Start" their sentence, often resulting in someone swooping in after 30 seconds of waiting while the person typing a wall of text wants to have been speaking the whole time.

So what I'm wanting is to see if you guys know of any already-made rules for conversation (read negotiating, arguments, bantering, etc.) which I can incorporate. I was hoping for something adapting the general combat rules to conversation so there'd be an initiative order and whatnot, and perhaps limits to how much can be said in a standard action, perhaps switching targets between actions, etc, and then allow rules for interrupts and such...

If any of you can think of some rules that are out there I'd be grateful and if nothing comes up then it'll be time to head to homebrew!

BWR
2013-08-16, 02:24 AM
The easiest would be to use skill challenges with appropriate skills. Persuasion, Knowledges, Deception, UtF are most likely.

If you are interested I have a half-baked system for social combat, but it's tailored to L5R d20 so it would take some work to adapt for SWSE.

The Dark Fiddler
2013-08-16, 07:55 AM
Both Fate Core and Mouse Guard (possibly Burning Wheel as well, which the latter is based on) have social combat rules that are almost, if not completely, identical to the physical combat rules with the exception of which skills are used. You might be able to get an idea from reading them, but it really only works for them because combat isn't a bloated mess of rules, and it's more like combat happens to work the same as other skills rather than being inexplicably different like in most other systems.

CarpeGuitarrem
2013-08-16, 11:46 AM
Burning Wheel's social conflict system is a lot more fleshed out and detailed than the general conflict system in Mouse Guard. Both are excellent. The players just have to get used to the idea of pre-scripting their actions and watching them unravel.

Fate Core simply broadens combat rules into a more general "conflict resolution".

kyoryu
2013-08-16, 01:36 PM
Burning Wheel's social conflict system is a lot more fleshed out and detailed than the general conflict system in Mouse Guard. Both are excellent. The players just have to get used to the idea of pre-scripting their actions and watching them unravel.

Fate Core simply broadens combat rules into a more general "conflict resolution".

I'd actually argue that Fate Core has a general conflict resolution system as one of its pacing mechanics, and that can be used for physical conflicts :)

And actually, for many types of 'mental/social' conflicts, you should really use a Contest, not a Conflict. Convincing somebody of something really is more of a Contest. A Conflict would be getting them to back down or the like.

BWR
2013-08-16, 02:30 PM
Conflict is any situation where people disagree and one side has to win. It's a perfectly good word to use for the issue.

Kadzar
2013-08-16, 10:09 PM
kyoryu isn't arguing semantics; Conflicts and Contests are two different resolution systems in Fate with different mechanics, and, since in Fate there aren't really rules that say you have to represent certain things with certain mechanics, the use of such can be open to interpretation.

CarpeGuitarrem
2013-08-17, 12:55 AM
I'd actually argue that Fate Core has a general conflict resolution system as one of its pacing mechanics, and that can be used for physical conflicts :)
Oh, I say that mainly because of the evolution of Fate. :smallsmile: It definitely started with physical conflicts and added the others; Fate Core is the first time that they've really been totally unified.

kyoryu
2013-08-17, 02:36 AM
Oh, I say that mainly because of the evolution of Fate. :smallsmile: It definitely started with physical conflicts and added the others; Fate Core is the first time that they've really been totally unified.

Not really. There's no distinction or preference made to physical conflicts as far back as SotC.


Conflicts are the most involved actions, and an entire scene may revolve around a conflict. Conflicts include:
• Any kind of fight scene
• A political debate
• A long, tense staredown
• Trying to talk your way past a bouncer as he tries to scare you off
The complexity of conflicts is such that they merit an entire section
detailing how they are handled.

Thrudd
2013-08-17, 03:43 AM
So I'm running a Star Wars: Saga Edition game with a few of my buddies. I, being a good storyteller but crappy actor, have decided to run it exclusively online via the Roll20 Virtual Tabletop. While this is working golden for me, there is one big drawback; it's difficult at times when multiple people are trying to talk as the chat will show *(Character Name) is typing* but until they get it all typed out they can't "Start" their sentence, often resulting in someone swooping in after 30 seconds of waiting while the person typing a wall of text wants to have been speaking the whole time.

So what I'm wanting is to see if you guys know of any already-made rules for conversation (read negotiating, arguments, bantering, etc.) which I can incorporate. I was hoping for something adapting the general combat rules to conversation so there'd be an initiative order and whatnot, and perhaps limits to how much can be said in a standard action, perhaps switching targets between actions, etc, and then allow rules for interrupts and such...

If any of you can think of some rules that are out there I'd be grateful and if nothing comes up then it'll be time to head to homebrew!

So what you're after is a way to keep the online, in-character conversations orderly and fair. I don't think you need to go so far as to have a "social combat" system, but a couple simple homebrew solutions could solve your problems. It is easy enough to apply a d20 initiative roll in social situations to tell your players in what order they may speak relative to the NPC, you could even add CHA modifier to it of you want. Have a guideline that their IC comments need to be limited in length to something they could actually say in 10 seconds or less, or whatever time interval you feel is appropriate. Then they let others have a chance to respond or pass, in initiative order, before they continue talking. Skill and ability checks still work the same as always: you make or ask for rolls whenever you deem it appropriate to determine an NPC's reaction to something. You should ask your players to indicate in their posts to whom their words are addressed, a specific NPC or PC, or a group, if they don't do that already. That's really all there is to "targeting" in a social situation. If a particular character is addressed by a comment or question but they are not next up in initiative order, that means another character can "interrupt" the conversation. This might be seen as rude, of course, depending on who's talking and what is being said. The polite thing to do under normal circumstances would be to "pass" until the addressed character's initiative comes up and they can respond.
You'll just need to determine the appropriate time to call for social initiative rolls. I would say normally after an NPC addresses them or is about to, when they want to address an NPC, or whenever they start an IC conversation.
It might feel a bit artificial and a waste of time, with people saying "pass" when they have nothing to say, but for your situation it might be what you need to keep things orderly and give everyone a chance with the variance in people's typing speeds.

elliott20
2013-08-17, 11:36 AM
I would probably base it more after fate rather than burning wheel for the simple reason that burning wheel functions off of rock-paper-scissors style interaction, while fate still sticks with each person taking turns and so on. it also makes it easier to manage online, I think.

The only difference is that instead of having a standard AC, you would use the appropriate skill (or saving through, in some cases) to defend. You could also use some rolling mechanic to create your social hit points (to take a queue from burning wheel). I would suggest something simple like roll skill, (result - 10) x character level = social hit points.

Just don't forget to state the goal of each character, and then negotiate the results in the end when one character's SHP hits 0.

Yipyioh
2013-08-17, 04:41 PM
So what you're after is a way to keep the online, in-character conversations orderly and fair. I don't think you need to go so far as to have a "social combat" system, but a couple simple homebrew solutions could solve your problems. It is easy enough to apply a d20 initiative roll in social situations to tell your players in what order they may speak relative to the NPC, you could even add CHA modifier to it of you want. Have a guideline that their IC comments need to be limited in length to something they could actually say in 10 seconds or less, or whatever time interval you feel is appropriate. Then they let others have a chance to respond or pass, in initiative order, before they continue talking. Skill and ability checks still work the same as always: you make or ask for rolls whenever you deem it appropriate to determine an NPC's reaction to something. You should ask your players to indicate in their posts to whom their words are addressed, a specific NPC or PC, or a group, if they don't do that already. That's really all there is to "targeting" in a social situation. If a particular character is addressed by a comment or question but they are not next up in initiative order, that means another character can "interrupt" the conversation. This might be seen as rude, of course, depending on who's talking and what is being said. The polite thing to do under normal circumstances would be to "pass" until the addressed character's initiative comes up and they can respond.
You'll just need to determine the appropriate time to call for social initiative rolls. I would say normally after an NPC addresses them or is about to, when they want to address an NPC, or whenever they start an IC conversation.
It might feel a bit artificial and a waste of time, with people saying "pass" when they have nothing to say, but for your situation it might be what you need to keep things orderly and give everyone a chance with the variance in people's typing speeds.

This is exactly what I wanted, and what I have thought myself. I just got back home from work but I was thinking about this all in the back of my mind all day, and I'll start a new thread for it in the homebrew section. You hit the main points I did, I simply "rule-ified" it. We do a fairly good job of not breaking immersion in conversation, the "pass" you refer to would most likely just be the character putting "..."

I'll post a link to the page when I make it in Homebrew.

Thanks to the rest of you, though unfortunately I didn't get much out of it as I'm just looking for D20 system rules, I know of FATE and Burning Wheel is based off d6 right?