[PF] Magical Knack + Spell Perfection, Double the Metamagic Reduction?

[Elricaltovilla]

Basically what the title suggests. I'm curious whether wiser heads than mine think the metamagic reduction effect of Magical Knack (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/magic-traits/magical-knack) or Metamagic Master (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/regional-traits/wayang-spellhunter-minata) (A.K.A. Wayang Spellhunter) count as numerical bonuses "doubled" by the Spell Perfection (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/spell-perfection) feat.

Obviously this is probably cheese, seeing as Spell Perfection is arguably the most broken feat in Pathfinder.

[Keneth]

No, it's not a bonus.

[Thrair]

In addition, if you have other feats which allow you to apply a set numerical bonus to any aspect of this spell (such as Spell Focus, Spell Penetration, Weapon Focus [ray], and so on), double the bonus granted by that feat when applied to this spell.

Bold and italics on the important bit. Traits aren't feats. Even if you get those traits from the Extra Traits feat, it's not a feat bonus. That feat just gives you two extra traits.

So RAW, it wouldn't work.

RAI, as you yourself said, the Spell Perfection feat is already very strong without needing to cheese it.

[Talya]

It really sucks that the wording of spell perfection prevents you from using it with quicken spell.

[Drachasor]

No, it's not a bonus.

Indeed, a bonus is very clearly defined in the rules:


Bonuses are numerical values that are added to checks and statistical scores. Most bonuses have a type, and as a general rule, bonuses of the same type are not cumulative (do not “stack”)—only the greater bonus granted applies.

Reducing the spell level is not a numerical value ADDED to a CHECK or STATISTICAL SCORE.

[StreamOfTheSky]

It really sucks that the wording of spell perfection prevents you from using it with quicken spell.

What wording? It lets you apply a metamagic feat w/o level adjustment, so long as the effective level of the spell wouldn't go above your class's spell level cap (ie, 9 for wizards, etc...). It's rare to see Spell Perfection *not* combined w/ Quicken. Most intentionally perfect a spell of 5th or lower specifically because they want to be able to freely quicken their perfected spell.

[Amphetryon]

What wording? It lets you apply a metamagic feat w/o level adjustment, so long as the effective level of the spell wouldn't go above your class's spell level cap (ie, 9 for wizards, etc...). It's rare to see Spell Perfection *not* combined w/ Quicken. Most intentionally perfect a spell of 5th or lower specifically because they want to be able to freely quicken their perfected spell.

Probably the part about "without affecting casting time." Since Quicken Spell affects casting time by its very nature, it would appear, by Talya's reading at least, to not be a valid choice for Spell Perfection.

[Kudaku]

I always assumed that line was there because spontaneous casters otherwise need a full-round action to apply metamagic feats to their spells.

It is an interesting interpretation, but I'm not quite sure if it's RaI...?

[StreamOfTheSky]

I always assumed that line was there because spontaneous casters otherwise need a full-round action to apply metamagic feats to their spells.

It is an interesting interpretation, but I'm not quite sure if it's RaI...?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's referring to that.

[Talya]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's referring to that.

Yes, this is a clear case where RAI obviously works better than RAW.