MukkTB
2013-08-16, 01:38 PM
My group plays 3.P. I am trying to homebrew a way of creating deathless at lower level using animate dead as the starting point.
Deathless are positive energy undead and spirits. This (http://eberronunlimited.wikidot.com/deathless) is the original type. This (https://sites.google.com/site/eberronpathfinder/conversion-info/bestiary/types-subtypes/deathless---type) is a conversion to Pathfinder.
There is no RAW way of making them until you get to Create Deathless, a 6th level spell equivalent to Create Undead.
Since we're using 3.P this is the Pathfinder animate dead (http://paizo.com/prd/spells/animateDead.html) spell. If you want to go into detail you have to go to the skeleton (http://paizo.com/PRD/monsters/skeleton.html) entry. It has several interesting things to say, including a bit that explains why Deathless didn't get a RAW equivilant version for lower level spells.
Perhaps the most dangerous variant skeleton, though, is the skeletal champion. This skeleton retains its intellect, and often any class levels it possessed in life. A skeletal champion cannot be created with animate dead—these potent undead only arise under rare conditions similar to those that cause the manifestation of ghosts or via rare and highly evil rituals.
Animate dead should not create undead with intellect or class levels. Deathless can have both because they do not lose their intelligence score.
So, given that I want to create Deathless in as RAW a way as possible, I need to obey these limitations. There is a way. Animals with 2 int or lower do not count as sapient. Which could be argued (poorly) is the meaning of intellect in the above quote. They also cannot gain class levels. Restricting the animate spell to non-sapient creatures follows the spirit of the rules. The other limitation is that Deathless have to have an int score.
So the new Animate Deathless spell would have a section that goes:
Animate Deathless can only be used on creatures with 1 or 2 intellect. Deathless with 3 int or higher or class levels cannot be created with animate Deathless- these potent Deathless only arise under rare conditions similar to those that cause the manifestation of ghosts or via rare and highly powerful rituals.
Next lets cover the RAW rules about selecting alternate templates for skeletons when animating them. The PF rules have this to say.
Numerous variant skeletons exist, such as those whose bones burn with an unending fire and those who drip with gore and reassemble themselves over time. Both of these variant skeletons can be created using animate dead, but they count as twice their normal number of Hit Dice per casting. Once controlled, they count normally against the controller's limit.
A liberal reading of this passage implies that other types do exist and could possibly be applied. It follows that any other type would also count against twice their normal Hit Dice on casting. The resulting rule for Animate Deathless would then be:
Deathless count as twice their normal number of Hit Dice during the casting. Once controlled, they count normally against the controller's limit.
It would be less clunky to go back through the spell and change the numbers. Effectively creating deathless costs twice as much to make as undead. It's 50 gp per hit die rather than 25. And only 1 HD per caster level can be made at a time.
So that covers our skeletons. Lets take a moment to go over Zombies (http://paizo.com/PRD/monsters/zombie.html). They don't have a way that's as clear. Lets forge ahead anyway. Variant zombies are created with additional spells.
Most zombies are created using animate dead. Such zombies are always of the standard type, unless the creator also casts haste or remove paralysis to create fast zombies, or contagion to create plague zombies.
So if we want to continue on this route, we probably need to require a concurrent spell to be cast to make a deathless zombie. Lesser Restoration seems appropriate. It falls in line with requiring a 2cd level spell for fast Zombies.
The last bit to cover is behavior. Deathless are not evil slaughterers of the living like standard undead. They are spiritual equivalents of whatever they were in life. The soul is still there, and the positive energy that makes the deathless allows it to keep going. Under command, undead will behave like robots, obeying commands to the letter. Even controlled, deathless would not have the precision to act like a robot. They would behave organically. My interpretation is that the deathless created here would need to respond to Handle Animal and similar skills. Control would then provide a +5 bonus to these skills.
The finished product of the homebrew would look like this:
ANIMATE DEATHLESS
School necromancy; Level cleric 3, sorcerer/wizard 4
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (an white onyx gem worth at least 50 gp per Hit Die of the deathless)
Range touch
Targets one or more corpses touched
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no
This spell turns corpses into deathless skeletons or zombies. Animate deathless can only be used on creatures with 1 or 2 intellect. Deathless with 3 int or higher or class levels cannot be created with animate deathless- these potent deathless only arise under rare conditions similar to those that cause the manifestation of ghosts or via rare and highly powerful rituals.
Controlled deathless will not attack their controller. Deathless created by this spell otherwise behave as a living creature of the same kind. You gain a +5 bonus when using Handle Animal, Ride, or Wild Empathy on deathless under your control. They remain animated until they are destroyed. A destroyed skeleton or zombie can't be animated again.
Regardless of the type of deathless you create with this spell, you can't create more HD of deathless than your caster level with a single casting of animate deathless. The consecrate spell doubles this limit.
The deathless you create remain under your control indefinitely. No matter how many times you use this spell, however, you can control only 4 HD worth of deathless creatures per caster level. If you exceed this number, all the newly created creatures fall under your control, and any excess deathless from previous castings become uncontrolled. You choose which creatures are released. Deathless you control through the Turn Undead feat do not count toward this limit.
Skeletons: A skeleton can be created only from a mostly intact corpse or skeleton. The corpse must have bones. If a skeleton is made from a corpse, the flesh falls off the bones.
Zombies: A zombie can be created only from a mostly intact corpse. The corpse must be that of a creature with a physical anatomy. Creating a Zombie requires the concurrent or immediately sequential casting of lesser restoration or fox's cunning.
How does this look?
Deathless are positive energy undead and spirits. This (http://eberronunlimited.wikidot.com/deathless) is the original type. This (https://sites.google.com/site/eberronpathfinder/conversion-info/bestiary/types-subtypes/deathless---type) is a conversion to Pathfinder.
There is no RAW way of making them until you get to Create Deathless, a 6th level spell equivalent to Create Undead.
Since we're using 3.P this is the Pathfinder animate dead (http://paizo.com/prd/spells/animateDead.html) spell. If you want to go into detail you have to go to the skeleton (http://paizo.com/PRD/monsters/skeleton.html) entry. It has several interesting things to say, including a bit that explains why Deathless didn't get a RAW equivilant version for lower level spells.
Perhaps the most dangerous variant skeleton, though, is the skeletal champion. This skeleton retains its intellect, and often any class levels it possessed in life. A skeletal champion cannot be created with animate dead—these potent undead only arise under rare conditions similar to those that cause the manifestation of ghosts or via rare and highly evil rituals.
Animate dead should not create undead with intellect or class levels. Deathless can have both because they do not lose their intelligence score.
So, given that I want to create Deathless in as RAW a way as possible, I need to obey these limitations. There is a way. Animals with 2 int or lower do not count as sapient. Which could be argued (poorly) is the meaning of intellect in the above quote. They also cannot gain class levels. Restricting the animate spell to non-sapient creatures follows the spirit of the rules. The other limitation is that Deathless have to have an int score.
So the new Animate Deathless spell would have a section that goes:
Animate Deathless can only be used on creatures with 1 or 2 intellect. Deathless with 3 int or higher or class levels cannot be created with animate Deathless- these potent Deathless only arise under rare conditions similar to those that cause the manifestation of ghosts or via rare and highly powerful rituals.
Next lets cover the RAW rules about selecting alternate templates for skeletons when animating them. The PF rules have this to say.
Numerous variant skeletons exist, such as those whose bones burn with an unending fire and those who drip with gore and reassemble themselves over time. Both of these variant skeletons can be created using animate dead, but they count as twice their normal number of Hit Dice per casting. Once controlled, they count normally against the controller's limit.
A liberal reading of this passage implies that other types do exist and could possibly be applied. It follows that any other type would also count against twice their normal Hit Dice on casting. The resulting rule for Animate Deathless would then be:
Deathless count as twice their normal number of Hit Dice during the casting. Once controlled, they count normally against the controller's limit.
It would be less clunky to go back through the spell and change the numbers. Effectively creating deathless costs twice as much to make as undead. It's 50 gp per hit die rather than 25. And only 1 HD per caster level can be made at a time.
So that covers our skeletons. Lets take a moment to go over Zombies (http://paizo.com/PRD/monsters/zombie.html). They don't have a way that's as clear. Lets forge ahead anyway. Variant zombies are created with additional spells.
Most zombies are created using animate dead. Such zombies are always of the standard type, unless the creator also casts haste or remove paralysis to create fast zombies, or contagion to create plague zombies.
So if we want to continue on this route, we probably need to require a concurrent spell to be cast to make a deathless zombie. Lesser Restoration seems appropriate. It falls in line with requiring a 2cd level spell for fast Zombies.
The last bit to cover is behavior. Deathless are not evil slaughterers of the living like standard undead. They are spiritual equivalents of whatever they were in life. The soul is still there, and the positive energy that makes the deathless allows it to keep going. Under command, undead will behave like robots, obeying commands to the letter. Even controlled, deathless would not have the precision to act like a robot. They would behave organically. My interpretation is that the deathless created here would need to respond to Handle Animal and similar skills. Control would then provide a +5 bonus to these skills.
The finished product of the homebrew would look like this:
ANIMATE DEATHLESS
School necromancy; Level cleric 3, sorcerer/wizard 4
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (an white onyx gem worth at least 50 gp per Hit Die of the deathless)
Range touch
Targets one or more corpses touched
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no
This spell turns corpses into deathless skeletons or zombies. Animate deathless can only be used on creatures with 1 or 2 intellect. Deathless with 3 int or higher or class levels cannot be created with animate deathless- these potent deathless only arise under rare conditions similar to those that cause the manifestation of ghosts or via rare and highly powerful rituals.
Controlled deathless will not attack their controller. Deathless created by this spell otherwise behave as a living creature of the same kind. You gain a +5 bonus when using Handle Animal, Ride, or Wild Empathy on deathless under your control. They remain animated until they are destroyed. A destroyed skeleton or zombie can't be animated again.
Regardless of the type of deathless you create with this spell, you can't create more HD of deathless than your caster level with a single casting of animate deathless. The consecrate spell doubles this limit.
The deathless you create remain under your control indefinitely. No matter how many times you use this spell, however, you can control only 4 HD worth of deathless creatures per caster level. If you exceed this number, all the newly created creatures fall under your control, and any excess deathless from previous castings become uncontrolled. You choose which creatures are released. Deathless you control through the Turn Undead feat do not count toward this limit.
Skeletons: A skeleton can be created only from a mostly intact corpse or skeleton. The corpse must have bones. If a skeleton is made from a corpse, the flesh falls off the bones.
Zombies: A zombie can be created only from a mostly intact corpse. The corpse must be that of a creature with a physical anatomy. Creating a Zombie requires the concurrent or immediately sequential casting of lesser restoration or fox's cunning.
How does this look?