Learning Draconic

[ISpencerI]

Ok Im doing a quest to learn draconic, we are planning to find a Brass dragon. Brass dragons barely if ever kill sentient beings and we are questing to find one, ask to stay with it in exchange for us entertaining it with conversation. We will be staying for a bit, then convince it to teach us draconic in some way. So here are the questions: Can the dragon grant us draconic in any magical way? If you drink dragons blood do you learn draconic? What other way other than a dragon can you learn draconic without a feat/spell or spending a while learning?

Thanks anyone that answers.

[Big Fau]

The only methods to learning a language are 1) Gaining 2 ranks in Speak Language (4 skill points for most characters), 2) Spending a feat on the Ployglot feat (Races of Eberron), or 3) Buying either a permanent Tongues spell/that pearl item from the MiC that grants a language.

Mechanically you cannot actually learn a language unless you do one of those three methods.

[Sylian]

It's actually two skill points for cross-class, and one if it's a class skill.

[jaydubs]

3) Buying a permanent Tongues spell

Keep in mind that you can't just pay to have this cast on you, since permanency in regards to tongues can only be cast on oneself. So buying only works if you have enough in UMD to use the scroll.

[Invader]

Keep in mind that you can't just pay to have this cast on you, since permanency in regards to tongues can only be cast on oneself. So buying only works if you have enough in UMD to use the scroll.

Hmm, I never noticed that before. Learn something new every day...

[Grinner]

The only methods to learning a language are 1) Gaining 2 ranks in Speak Language (4 skill points for most characters), 2) Spending a feat on the Ployglot feat (Races of Eberron), or 3) Buying either a permanent Tongues spell/that pearl item from the MiC that grants a language.

Mechanically you cannot actually learn a language unless you do one of those three methods.

In short, your options are Rule Zero or using a different system altogether.

[Humble Master]

Mechanically you can only learn new languages through the methods stated above. I personally would say the Tongues option is best.

Anything else would be down to the DM ruling that the Dragon could teach you Draconic. If I was DM I would probably rule that yes the dragon could but it would take a while and you would probably have to pay the dragon or act as horde guards (with a Geas/Quest spell cast on you so you don't steal anything of course) for it. After all dragon are busy creatures and don't have time to teach puny humanoids how so speak in the draconic tongue.

[Coidzor]

You're in pure plot coupon territory, really. I have no idea how to calculate the gold value of something that permanently grants a language.

[ddude987]

Give them a feat reward for completing the quest

edit: IIRC according to the rules someone can teach you drow sign language so why not someone teaching you draconic

[Maginomicon]

You could also use the "skill retraining" rules to knock down a skill rank or two that you don't particularly use and use those to gain a rank of speak language.

Actually, it explicitly calls out language retraining as an option (PHB2 page 194).

[Fouredged Sword]

I would just have the dragon send them on a small task and make them a pearl of speech (draconic) while they are off fetching the dry cleaning.

[Grayson01]

Just Spend the skill points on it. lol Why do you need to learn Draconic? Also What class are you?

[Segev]

Yeah, mechanically, the way to learn Draconic is to spend 1 (or 2) skill points on Speak Language to gain a rank and choose Draconic as the language you learn therefrom.

You can let them level up and spend the skill points, or you can grant them the skill points as a "bonus" reward, or just plain grant them Draconic as a language, if you don't want to force people to spend skill points earned from leveling up on it.

[Samalpetey]

You could get a dragon to Mindrape the language into your head, though that could be difficult...

[Big Fau]

I remembered that item I mentioned earlier: Pearl of Speech. It's dirt cheap, and something a dragon wouldn't mind parting ways with (so you could just pay the dragon). One keyed to Draconic would grant you the language for as long as you want to use it.

[Deophaun]

If you're adventuring to find a tutor to teach you draconic, why a dragon? Surely there's a kobold you could bribe/threaten into doing it for far less hassle.

[Ace Nex]

Your reasoning seems flawed. I know they like conversation, but it goes something like

"Hey you Dragon, we're entertaining, and will talk to you if you teach us how to speak your ancient native tongue".

That hardly sounds fair. The thing most players don't realize is learning a language takes time. Weeks, Months, Years, and even longer to gain full mastery. You're not going to pick it up in a few days, and likely the dragon will get bored of you very quickly unless you have a particularly persuasive rogue/bard in the party and a DM who doesn't like you to Role play things out. More than likely he'd teach you a little, charge you for it, then sell you a book on how to speak it with grammar and such. He also may possibly send you out on "fetch" quests for payment, teaching you more in between your reading studies which would allow you to gain understanding over the minimum time period (They spent 2 skill points to learn the language, nothing is free). When I ran a campaign, the PCs complained a bit about how long it took them to learn the Draconic tongue when they traveled with a dragon for a few months. I then reminded them that they spent years in high school and College learning the same language and weren't 100% fluent, which was a pretty definitive end to the argument.

But back to the point, if you drink an angels blood do you learn Celestial? No. If you drink an orcs blood to learn orcish? Also no. Just because they are magical doesn't mean you can slap properties on things to suit what you desire. I would recommend finding a person or paying a Kobold (they're much cheaper) to teach you in exchange for some service or payment (and you'd have to spend the skill points for it as well, again, nothing is given freely, the spending of skill points represents progress and energy spent in a given skill. How can you learn a language you're not investing any energy in learning?). Dragons generally don't like to be bothered for too long by lesser mortals, and an agitated dragon won't increase your life expectancy. Like mortals, it takes all kinds, and I'm sure not all Bronze dragons are the pinnacles of goodness.

[Ashtagon]

It's actually two skill points for cross-class, and one if it's a class skill.

That depends on whether you want literacy, or are willing to settle for mere fluency.

[Dekion]

That depends on whether you want literacy, or are willing to settle for mere fluency.

This only matters if you are a barbarian without literacy. If you can speak a language, you are considered literate in it.

[jaydubs]

You could also try for a steel dragon instead. They actually like to live in cities, and spend most of their lives pretending to be humans. So hanging out with one would be a lot easier. They're also quite interested in art, history, politics, etc., so if you have someone with enough points in a relevant skill, they might agree to an exchange of learning. Think knowledge (history), knowledge (religion), performance (poetry), or something along those lines.

The problem though is actually finding a steel dragon. Though assuming your characters had a way to know about steel dragons and their behaviors, you might be able to hunt one down.

A tidbit about steel dragons can be found here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mm/20040328a

[Duke of Urrel]

The thing most players don't realize is learning a language takes time. Weeks, Months, Years, and even longer to gain full mastery. You're not going to pick it up in a few days […]

I sympathize with all those who say that language learning takes a lot more work – in the real world – than people realize. But in a fantasy role-playing game, I think it's okay to allow languages to be learned much more quickly.

What I don't like is the assumption that leveling up happens instantaneously, making a "ping" sound and suddenly increasing all of a character's powers, as in a video game. (D&D should not imitate video games; it is video games that should be considered shallow imitations of D&D, not the other way around.) I have always favored the old-school assumption that leveling up takes a lengthy period of down time: at least a couple of weeks in-game, but preferably a whole month and maybe a whole season. During this time, characters are assumed to be doing physical, mental, and spiritual self-improvement exercises of all kinds, so that it makes some in-game sense that they're increasing their powers.

As long as there is some in-game reason why a character might spend at least a month living near a brass dragon – paying for room and board if required – I think it's just fine for the character to learn Draconic that way. The character should have to add one rank in Speak Language skill, as usual, and that rank should cost two skill points, as usual, unless the Speak Language skill is a class skill for you (which it is if your character is a bard).

I also agree, Ace Nex, that there should be some in-game reason why a brass dragon agrees to work as your language tutor for a month. However, it shouldn't be hard to ingratiate yourself with a brass dragon. Flattery is likely to work well, bribery even better, and you can always offer to do it some favors. If your party has a bard, maybe even offering some regular entertainment may be enough to make a brass dragon like you.

So in conclusion, I don't think hanging out with a brass dragon should make it easier to learn Draconic in any mechanical way. But in terms of fluff, I can't imagine a better way to learn this language.

[Chronos]

Aside: A few adventures ago, I had a bard who was something of a linguist (she spoke nine different languages, including Draconic). I was just waiting for the party wizard (who also knew Draconic) to use the language for anything, so I could laugh at his grammar and pronunciation. The idea is that he (the wizard) would have learned it mostly from books and from other wizards, while she (the bard) had learned it as a living language from kobolds.

[Deophaun]

AI was just waiting for the party wizard (who also knew Draconic) to use the language for anything, so I could laugh at his grammar and pronunciation. The idea is that he (the wizard) would have learned it mostly from books and from other wizards, while she (the bard) had learned it as a living language from kobolds.
Although that would probably come off as something like an Alabaman laughing at a British royal for their pronunciation.

[Chronos]

Well, the most likely scenario for it to have come up would have been interrogating kobolds, anyway.

[Duke of Urrel]

Aside: A few adventures ago, I had a bard who was something of a linguist (she spoke nine different languages, including Draconic). I was just waiting for the party wizard (who also knew Draconic) to use the language for anything, so I could laugh at his grammar and pronunciation. The idea is that he (the wizard) would have learned it mostly from books and from other wizards, while she (the bard) had learned it as a living language from kobolds.


Although that would probably come off as something like an Alabaman laughing at a British royal for their pronunciation.

Nice fluff, both of you!

Whether you learn Draconic from dragons or from lowly kobolds, you're likely to sound classier in either case than a human who learns the language entirely from books and speaks it with a hapless humanish accent. On the other hand, dragons are vain, so I imagine that it flatters them to hear you try to speak their language, regardless of your accent, as long as you don't make serious errors. Indeed, when you take the trouble to learn any creature's first language and use that language to make a Bluff or Diplomacy check, I apply a house rule your check adds +2. If you use any other language, such as the Common Tongue, your check adds –2.

[Urpriest]

Regardless, Draconic is just the language spoken by Dragons. It's not a particularly special language, and it doesn't make sense to make the players go on a quest to learn it unless your setting is one in which it is somehow more special than normal, in which case you would already have rules for something like this and so wouldn't need our advice.

[Terazul]

Regardless, Draconic is just the language spoken by Dragons. It's not a particularly special language, and it doesn't make sense to make the players go on a quest to learn it unless your setting is one in which it is somehow more special than normal, in which case you would already have rules for something like this and so wouldn't need our advice.

Yeah. Consider that the Translator's Ring offers two (specific) languages known while worn and it's worth approximately 400 gp. That's chump change. But as it's not a secret language like Druidic or something, you can learn it normally via skill points anyway.

[Coidzor]

Whether you learn Draconic from dragons or from lowly kobolds, you're likely to sound classier in either case than a human who learns the language entirely from books and speaks it with a hapless humanish accent.

Well, it's basically the common language of arcanists and scholars, sort of like Latin for Europe and the Middle East during the Middle Ages, so at worst it'd be like Church Latin vs. Street Latin vs. Senatorial Latin. Depending upon how exotic you want to play it, non-dragons, kobolds, and dragons would probably all have different versions anyway based upon the sounds they could physically produce.

I'd say it's more the minority of settings where a character would solely learn any language from books unless it was some kind of exceedingly rare Precursor Language.

[Menzath]

I think the "learning" part of your question has been answered already. I just wanted to post a word of warning.

Dragon bile is a DC 26 contact poison (and yes that means blood as well) that does 3d6 str damage. Drinking some un-diluted blood can mean death.