Beguiler

[Grayson01]

If you had to make a Beguiler using only these books, no homebrew what feats, Skills, Advanced learning Spells, Skill trick would you take? Books PHB, PHB2, and Complete Scoundral. No other sources.

Also the Race is ether Human, or High Elf, Wood Elf, Wild Elf.

[nedz]

A standard trick with a Beguiler is to add in a few level of some fullcasting PrC so as to delay Advanced Learning slightly.

Now you have very few PrCs available and the most useful of these would be Spellwarp Sniper.

Basically
Beguiler 6 / Spellwarp Sniper 1 / Beguiler +1
allows you to select Shadow Conjuration at level 8
Beguiler 6 / Spellwarp Sniper 1 / Beguiler +4 / Spellwarp Sniper +2 / Beguiler +1
allows you to select Greater Shadow Conjuration at level 14 as well.

As for the PrC's class features then Spellwarp sounds fun, but the next two are pointless since Beguilers don't really do damage.

There are better PrCs for this trick, but they are not in CSco.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Grayson01
If you had to make a Beguiler....

What level are you starting at?

If you can, I'd pick up the Conceal Spellcasting skill trick. As for race, most people will probably point you towards human, but beguilers have enough skill points that you wouldn't suffer from losing the human bonus points.

[Grayson01]

Starting at Level 1 however I always plan my charcter out to at least level 15so I was trying to figure out what direction to take his build. It's going to be The Savage Tide Campiagn I have never played it before so looking for some good ideas Low to low-med Opt. Really looking for Spell and feat advaice. Conseling Spell is deff on my list going to take it at second level. I am still a little upset the Beguiler dose not get grease. wanted to go more of a battle feild control on this build.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Grayson01
Really looking for Spell and feat advaice. Conseling Spell is deff on my list going to take it at second level.

No idea what "Conseling Spell" could be. If this is a feat, how are you taking it at second level?

[gorfnab]

No idea what "Conseling Spell" could be. If this is a feat, how are you taking it at second level?
My guess is the Conceal Spellcasting skill trick from CS.

[Grayson01]

Yes Conceal Spellcasting sorry I am at work and half a sleep waiting for my shift to end.

[Psyren]

There is an expanded skill use for Bluff in Rules Compendium to hide your spellcasting so you may not even need the skill trick.

Collector of Stories is a really good one, as is Swift Concentration, Back On Your Feet, Social Recovery if you're the face, and Easy/Quick Escape.

[TaiLiu]

There is an expanded skill use for Bluff in Rules Compendium to hide your spellcasting so you may not even need the skill trick.

Sleight Of Hand, actually. But, yes; the skill trick is potentially unneeded.

[Psyren]

Whoops. Been awhile since I read it :smallredface:

[Grayson01]

We are really restricted as to what books we can use so the rules Compendium is out. but I will ask, not planning on being the face, I am always the face of the party so I kinda wanna play a backseat if I can. I am trying to decide if Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus is worth it focusing on Enchantment .

[Psyren]

We are really restricted as to what books we can use so the rules Compendium is out.

How about Races of Stone? That's where the rule originally appeared.



but I will ask, not planning on being the face, I am always the face of the party so I kinda wanna play a backseat if I can. I am trying to decide if Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus is worth it focusing on Enchantment .

...Maybe? Illusion might be better as that way you at least get some that aren't shut down by Pro: Evil.

[nedz]

We are really restricted as to what books we can use so the rules Compendium is out. but I will ask, not planning on being the face, I am always the face of the party so I kinda wanna play a backseat if I can. I am trying to decide if Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus is worth it focusing on Enchantment .

SF/GSF Illusion is vastly better than Enchantment especially if you go for Shadow Conjuration, but even if you don't. Enchantments are very powerful at low level, but it's quite common to run into resistance or even immunity actually quite early.

[Chronos]

Yeah, at high level you'll encounter immunity to mind-effecting because your opponents have made a deliberate effort to get it (via the Mind Blank spell or similar), but even at low levels there are plenty of things that have it naturally: Undead, giant vermin, oozes, etc.

And I'd try to get at least one of the Shadow Conjuration/Shadow Evocation spells via Advanced Learning.

If I may ask, though, why that particular set of books? It seems odd to me to allow exactly one of the Complete books, and from the second wave of them, at that. I'd expect Complete Adventurer to be allowed in any game that allows Scoundrel, and probably Warrior, Arcane, and Divine as well.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Grayson01
We are really restricted as to what books we can use so the rules Compendium is out.


Originally Posted by Psyren
How about Races of Stone? That's where the rule originally appeared.

If even the Rules Compendium is iffy, then probably the books mentioned in the OP are pretty much it.

No question this makes it tough on the beguiler. I have a feeling these are just the books the DM owns.

[Grayson01]

The DM Allows us the PHB DMG and two Books from ether the PHB2 (Which I have to have to use cause that is where Beguiler is) and any one of the Completes and that is it. The Scoundrel has all the Skill Tricks and It's my favorite book I could change it out for Adventurer still haven't decided but the Skill tricks are hard to pass up.

[Palanan]

...okay, or that.

Seems kind of odd, though. Is he just trying to limit the number of options he has to worry about?

:smallconfused:

[Grayson01]

It's a she but I don't know why it's just her thing. It's a new group. I wanted to play a new class, and beguiler has always interested me. How many Save VS Illusion are there?

[Urpriest]

We are really restricted as to what books we can use so the rules Compendium is out. but I will ask, not planning on being the face, I am always the face of the party so I kinda wanna play a backseat if I can. I am trying to decide if Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus is worth it focusing on Enchantment .

You don't need to use Rules Compendium though, the DM does. You're not taking any rules elements from it, rather you're using a rule from it that also applies to everyone else. Basically, the question is if your DM is using Rules Compendium, as if she is it won't count against your book limit, and if she isn't she just isn't.

[nedz]

Skill tricks are nice, but you can live without them. As an arcane caster CArc, CMage and CDiv even have a lot of options. Oh, and Spells > Skills.

There is the standard Beguiler handbook here (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2322).

CMage would open up
Rogue 2/Beguiler 3/Unseen Seer 10
(At level 15: Evasion, 5d6 sneak, Beguiler 13 casting)
or
Rogue 1/Beguiler 4/Unseen Seer 10
(At level 15: 5d6 sneak, Beguiler 14 casting)

CDiv opens up
Beguiler 6 / Divine Oracle 1 / Beguiler +4 / Divine Oracle +2 / Beguiler +1
Which adds Evasion, gives full casting and adds the Oracle domain. This build allows you to grab both Shadow Conjurations at the earliest possible level which adds much more flexibility. This does require you to grab Knowledge (Religion) as a class skill which can be done with the feats Cosmopolitan or Educated which are in various settings books; if these aren't available (and I don't know your setting) then you can use one of several dips. Divine Oracle also grants Evasion.

This would give you access to most Enchantments, Illusions, Conjurations and Divinations. It's also compatible with the next option.

CDiv also allows you to take Arcane Disciple to add various domains.

CDiv also contains Rainbow Servant, but that's quite a broken combo with Beguiler.