Can you "force" people to read Explosive Runes?

[SoraWolf7]

I had a fun build idea involving Explosive Runes, and I wanted to know if Explosive Runes must be read if the runes are in line of sight and proper range of the other person. And if so, are there any checks or saves a person can make to not read the runes aside from a Search Check made by a rogue.

[JungleChicken]

I believe if you see it and you aren't a rogue...well prepare for an unpleasant surprise

[rockdeworld]

This isn't covered by the core rules, so it's up to your DM.

What isn't up to your DM, though, is that you can chuck them at your opponent and read them yourself. Boom, he gets no save. Reading doesn't have a listed action either, so you could potentially throw a book of these and read them all (or, if your DM is nice, they'll all explode when you just read one).

[Deophaun]

Generally, no. You could, of course, charm someone, or use Bluff to make them read it. But just flashing writing in front of someone is going to require DM adjudication to see if they read it.

[SoraWolf7]

Generally, no. You could, of course, charm someone, or use Bluff to make them read it. But just flashing writing in front of someone is going to require DM adjudication to see if they read it.

Well, I intend on using a delivery system to get the runes to them in a way that makes them read it. And I'm also assuming that the runes will be in common, so they can be read.

[Duke of Urrel]

The RAW say that Explosive Runes "detonate when read, dealing 6d6 points of force damage."

The RAW also say: "Anyone next to the runes (close enough to read them) takes the full damage with no saving throw […]."

I interpret this to mean that any literate creature that comes close enough to read Explosive Runes unavoidably detonates them, provided that they are in plain view. Illiterate creatures are unharmed. Literate creatures, however, do not have to be able to decipher Explosive Runes to activate them, and they don't even have to be interested in them. All they have to do is look at them from a place that is "close enough to read them," and – kaboom! Unless you use alternative facing rules, anybody who comes close enough to read Explosive Runes unavoidably looks at them at least for an instant, and that is enough time to set them off.

So the only question that remains to be answered is how far away Explosive Runes are legible. After a little searching online, I found a sign-making service that offers advice about how big signs should be to be legible at various distances. Letters about one half-inch high are legible from about 10 feet away. I make this the default size for Explosive Runes, as a house rule. (I allow them to be made as small as one quarter-inch high, which makes them legible from no more than five feet away.)

Another house rule of mine is that Explosive Runes are harmless, but also very hard to identify, from farther than 10 feet away. If you have the rogue's Trapfinding ability (or its equivalent), you can identify Explosive Runes with a successful Search check at DC 28 from farther than 10 feet away. Alternatively, you can identify Explosive Runes from a safe distance away with the Greater Arcane Sight spell.

[NamelessNPC]

Maybe this spell (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/beguiling-gift) can be of help

[Prince Raven]

The RAW also say: "Anyone next to the runes (close enough to read them) takes the full damage with no saving throw […]."

So what happens when your explosive runes are billboard sized? If you write them big enough, could you deal 6d6 damage to everyone in an entire village?

[Mando Knight]

Illiterate creatures are unharmed.
No, they just don't trigger the trap. If they're caught in the explosion, they're caught in the explosion.

Alternatively, "reading" could be meant in a more general sense, looking at the structure of the scribbles to try to discern a meaning (which even an illiterate person can do).

Unless you use alternative facing rules, anybody who comes close enough to read Explosive Runes unavoidably looks at them at least for an instant, and that is enough time to set them off.
Looking near or seeing something is not the same as reading something. Reading doesn't require much conscious effort, but it does require some effort... you can easily run your eyes past writing without reading it if the writing doesn't catch your attention otherwise. (And don't tell me otherwise... else you're able to "read" this post while looking at some other part of the monitor. If you were able to so quickly and easily read things out of focus, then Spot and Search checks would be never needed, for anything ever.)

Furthermore, the runes seemingly must be fairly small: "Close enough to read them" is an explanation for being "next to the runes," and "next to" generally means "within 5 feet" in D&D. I'd consider giant writing that can be read from 20 feet away to be gratuitously cheesy and against the spirit of the spell.

The best way to get someone to read Explosive Runes is to put some intriguing writing on something they'd be interested in looking at. Like a pocket watch, the table of contents of your spellbook (you don't set off your own runes), or on their coffee can. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0317.html)

[Deophaun]

Well, I intend on using a delivery system to get the runes to them in a way that makes them read it. And I'm also assuming that the runes will be in common, so they can be read.
The most effective delivery system I've heard of was mentioned a few months ago in a similar thread. It was a summoned celestial monkey. Since they have an Int of 3 and do not have 1 level of barbarian, they can understand common, and so can read the explosive runes.

[Psyren]

The cantrip Amanuensis (SpC) can explicitly set the runes off from range, even a whole book full of them. Toss the book to someone and light the fuse - they don't have to be reading it.

[The Glyphstone]

So what happens when your explosive runes are billboard sized? If you write them big enough, could you deal 6d6 damage to everyone in an entire village?

No, only the people within 10ft of the billboard. The radius of the explosion isn't scaled. Billboard-sized runes would let you (or anyone else) detonate them from a mile away, though.

[Duke of Urrel]

So what happens when your explosive runes are billboard sized? If you write them big enough, could you deal 6d6 damage to everyone in an entire village?

I don't allow Explosive Runes to be created that big. However, even if I did allow this, I think it would be an interpretive stretch to say that their range always extends as far as their legibility. The "bystander" rule suggests that the blast triggered by Explosive Runes has only a 10-foot radius, so I would consider it impractical to make Explosive Runes big enough to be legible from farther than 10 feet away.


No, they just don't trigger the trap. If they're caught in the explosion, they're caught in the explosion.

I have no quarrel with you there. Illiterate creatures are not immune to Explosive Runes if they happen to be standing near a literate creature that triggers them. Even the creator of Explosive Runes may be harmed as a bystander when somebody else triggers them.


Alternatively, "reading" could be meant in a more general sense, looking at the structure of the scribbles to try to discern a meaning (which even an illiterate person can do).

I don't interpret the rules in this way, because I don't like ambiguity. Either you trigger Explosive Runes, or you don't. I don't want to get into nit-picking arguments about whether what a character does counts as "reading" or not.


Looking near or seeing something is not the same as reading something. Reading doesn't require much conscious effort, but it does require some effort... you can easily run your eyes past writing without reading it if the writing doesn't catch your attention otherwise. (And don't tell me otherwise... else you're able to "read" this post while looking at some other part of the monitor. If you were able to so quickly and easily read things out of focus, then Spot and Search checks would be never needed, for anything ever.)

The description of the Explosive Runes spell states: "Anyone next to the runes (close enough to read them) takes the full damage […]." It doesn't say that any comprehension is necessary.

Interpreting the description of the Explosive Runes spell as I have done doesn't compel us to allow every other text to be comprehended at a glance, and it certainly doesn't compel us to allow every other detail to be noticed at a glance, thereby making all Spot and Search checks unnecessary. I believe Explosive Runes are designed to stand out clearly wherever they are written, so that they don't require any kind of skill either to notice or to read.


Furthermore, the runes seemingly must be fairly small: "Close enough to read them" is an explanation for being "next to the runes," and "next to" generally means "within 5 feet" in D&D.

I won't quibble with you over this. Five feet is the maximum range of legibility that I assign to the Illusory Script spell and the Sepia Snake Sigil spell. I assign a greater maximum range to the Explosive Runes spell because I imagine Explosive Runes to be bigger than the mystical magic runes that comprise those other spell effects. Also, 10 feet is convenient, because that is the usual range for Search checks. (At the caster's option, I allow Explosive Runes to be made smaller, so that they're legible from a shorter distance away.) But it's within any DM's rights to establish limits that differ from mine.


I'd consider giant writing that can be read from 20 feet away to be gratuitously cheesy and against the spirit of the spell.

I agree completely with this, and with all the rest of what you wrote.

[aleucard]

The most effective delivery system I've heard of was mentioned a few months ago in a similar thread. It was a summoned celestial monkey. Since they have an Int of 3 and do not have 1 level of barbarian, they can understand common, and so can read the explosive runes.

Were I the DM in THAT particular campaign, I can guarantee that using that particular tactic would at best irritate some of the last people the PCs want to get on the wrong side of. There's nothing in the Summon Monster rules that says that the summons are mindlessly in subservience to their summoner, nor is there anything that says they can't act on what they're made to do while summoned. Depending on how deep this can be taken, being allowed to summon at all could carry a sort of in-game Gentleman's Agreement to not summon for stupid or suicidal **** too often or without acceptable reason. for example, a Dretch might not mind attacking everything in sight, but a Lantern Archon would be pretty pissed when he gets back.

[Mnemnosyne]

Looking near or seeing something is not the same as reading something. Reading doesn't require much conscious effort, but it does require some effort... you can easily run your eyes past writing without reading it if the writing doesn't catch your attention otherwise. (And don't tell me otherwise... else you're able to "read" this post while looking at some other part of the monitor. If you were able to so quickly and easily read things out of focus, then Spot and Search checks would be never needed, for anything ever.)I'm not sure about you, but I'm incapable of looking at any text which is close enough to read without picking up at least one or two words, even if I'm not paying attention. I won't understand the whole sentence/paragraph/etc, of course, but one or two words will definitely permeate my brain even if I don't care. This is especially true if the words are written in such a way as to catch the attention.

The question, I suppose, becomes: does explosive runes require you to read all of the words, or just one or two?

[sketchtb]

The question, I suppose, becomes: does explosive runes requird all of the words, or just one or two?

It could be as few as two runes. It's not explicitly stated in the spell description so again, a dm ruling would be required.

The description also states anyone within 10' is entitled to a ref save. Nothing about being illiteracy=immunity. So safe to say, 10' blast radius regardless of the rune size.

[Deophaun]

Were I the DM in THAT particular campaign, I can guarantee that using that particular tactic would at best irritate some of the last people the PCs want to get on the wrong side of.
Who, exactly? Would it be better if we used fiendish scorpions instead, or are the evil analogues of your "last people the PCs want to get on the wrong side of" known for their concern over the well being of their cannon-fodder (or, rather, unaffiliated cannon-fodder that just happens to inhabit the same general area)?

I'm rather curious as to what entity, with all the other stuff that often happens in a D&D campaign, is going to drop anything to hunt someone who is minorly inconveniencing celestial monkeys in this way. Slow day in Astral plane?

There's nothing in the Summon Monster rules that says that the summons are mindlessly in subservience to their summoner, nor is there anything that says they can't act on what they're made to do while summoned.
But, more to the point, there's nothing in the spell that allows them to disobey.

Depending on how deep this can be taken, being allowed to summon at all could carry a sort of in-game Gentleman's Agreement to not summon for stupid or suicidal **** too often or without acceptable reason.
Since monsters summoned through Summon Monster X do not die, there is no such thing as a suicidal order. So, this is an easy agreement to stick to.

[Auramis]

The RAW say that Explosive Runes "detonate when read, dealing 6d6 points of force damage."

The RAW also say: "Anyone next to the runes (close enough to read them) takes the full damage with no saving throw […]."

I interpret this to mean that any literate creature that comes close enough to read Explosive Runes unavoidably detonates them, provided that they are in plain view. Illiterate creatures are unharmed.

It doesn't sound as if they go off just because someone who can read is near them. It sounds like it's just listing a description of their range and the effects to me.

"You trace these mystic runes upon a book, map, scroll, or similar object bearing written information." The way our DM handled these is he had people actually look at and read them. He doesn't think punishing someone for getting near them is at all fair to players. If they don't read it, they don't read it, then there's no explosion. The objective of these runes, in our house's eyes, is to be deceptive. An innocent looking letter delivered by an unaware courier, a wanted notice tacked on a board as a terrorist action, etc.

As for forcing someone to read them, charm spells, dominate spells, bluff checks, and other methods are great for getting the job done when players are either uninterested or wise to what's going on.

[Mando Knight]

I believe Explosive Runes are designed to stand out clearly wherever they are written, so that they don't require any kind of skill either to notice or to read.
The Spot/Search comment was tangential, following the observation to the next conclusion. If you automatically read everything in your peripheral vision, then there shouldn't be a need for almost any other kind of Spot check because you can automatically interpret all the visual information that you receive.

I'm not sure about you, but I'm incapable of looking at any text which is close enough to read without picking up at least one or two words, even if I'm not paying attention. I won't understand the whole sentence/paragraph/etc, of course, but one or two words will definitely permeate my brain even if I don't care. This is especially true if the words are written in such a way as to catch the attention.
What about text that you're not looking at, but can see (i.e. through peripheral vision)?

In a combat situation, when you are focused on your target(s), do you automatically read an unrelated text that is placed nearby?

Similarly, if you automatically detonate the runes when they cross your vision, then why is a Rogue explicitly allowed to search for and disable an Explosive Runes trap? If you always read the runes when you see them, then being allowed a Search check to find the trapped runes would only detonate them. You're also allowed to Dispel or Erase the runes, only detonating them on a failed check. How can you do that if you automatically read the runes?

[Auramis]

The Spot/Search comment was tangential, following the observation to the next conclusion. If you automatically read everything in your peripheral vision, then there shouldn't be a need for almost any other kind of Spot check because you can automatically interpret all the visual information that you receive.

What about text that you're not looking at, but can see (i.e. through peripheral vision)?

In a combat situation, when you are focused on your target(s), do you automatically read an unrelated text that is placed nearby?

Similarly, if you automatically detonate the runes when they cross your vision, then why is a Rogue explicitly allowed to search for and disable an Explosive Runes trap? If you always read the runes when you see them, then being allowed a Search check to find the trapped runes would only detonate them. You're also allowed to Dispel or Erase the runes, only detonating them on a failed check. How can you do that if you automatically read the runes?

Everything in this post summarizes why I wouldn't go with the mentality of them blowing up on the spot. It's not fair to the players, who may have a chance to disable of simply find a way to avoid that kind of trap. Thinking of the peripheral vision: it's the same as driving down the highway and you pass a billboard. You know it exists, you know it has writing, but that doesn't mean you bothered to read it.

[Duke of Urrel]

What about text that you're not looking at, but can see (i.e. through peripheral vision)?


Thinking of the peripheral vision: it's the same as driving down the highway and you pass a billboard. You know it exists, you know it has writing, but that doesn't mean you bothered to read it.

This is a reasonable objection, so I'll come clean. When I'm the DM, I apply alternative facing rules part of the time. Outside your turn, you always have fixed facing. This means that when you're not engaged in combat, you don't have to worry about triggering Explosive Runes unless they appear in your front zone. Of course, they also have to be in plain view. If I didn't use alternative facing rules, I think I would have to follow your advice and require more active attention than just looking at Explosive Runes to trigger them.


In a combat situation, when you are focused on your target(s), do you automatically read an unrelated text that is placed nearby?

This could happen, according to my interpretation of the rules, because when it's your turn in combat, I apply the standard rule that your facing is indeterminate. However, it's not very likely that you're going to set off Explosive Runes in combat. They would have to appear somewhere within 10 feet if you, unobstructed by any obstacle or enemy. Even if you did happen to detonate them, they'd be likely to harm nearby enemies as well as you, if not quite as much.

On the other hand, the unlikelihood of setting off Explosive Runes in combat is maybe not a good defense of a rule that allows this to happen too easily. Maybe I should make it just a little harder to trigger Explosive Runes, though I hesitate to require a Search check to notice them if they're displayed prominently.


Similarly, if you automatically detonate the runes when they cross your vision, then why is a Rogue explicitly allowed to search for and disable an Explosive Runes trap? If you always read the runes when you see them, then being allowed a Search check to find the trapped runes would only detonate them. You're also allowed to Dispel or Erase the runes, only detonating them on a failed check. How can you do that if you automatically read the runes?

I interpret the rogue's Trapfinding ability as the ability to detect Explosive Runes, or any other trap, from outside its triggering range. In other words, a rogue who makes a Search check at DC 28 (not easy!) detects Explosive Runes from farther than 10 feet away, which is a safe distance. This is how rogues manage to find Illusory Script, Glyphs of Warding, Sepia Snake Sigils, and even Symbols without triggering them – which is an impressive feat in the case of a Symbol, whose triggering range may extend up to 60 feet. Indeed, Symbols are a good illustration of how my interpretation of the rules works. You can hardly avoid noticing a Symbol if it's big enough and prominently displayed, so that it's legible from 60 feet away, and a Symbol may be triggerable by mere sight. So how do rogues avoid triggering them? By detecting them while using Search skill from farther than 60 feet away, that's how. Think of it as a kind of sixth sense that works, when need arises, even farther than one's line of sight.

As for dispelling, when you use the Dispel Magic spell, you remove Explosive Runes from a safe distance away, that is, from a place farther than 10 feet away from them. The Erase spell is a lot riskier, because you have to touch the Runes to remove them, but I assume that you use this spell only after you've already detected the Runes from a safe distance, and that you try not to look directly at the Runes when you touch them. Remember, too, that the Erase spell always has a 10% failure rate, and that if you fail to erase Explosive Runes with this spell, you trigger them. I think this rule reflects the difficulty involved in touching something without looking directly at it.

I think of Explosive Runes not as a subtle device, but as a booby trap that stops intruders by blowing them up. If you want subtlety, I would recommend the Illusory Script spell, whose description includes the phrase "attempting to read," or the Sepia Snake Sigil spell, whose description states: "Simply seeing the enspelled text is not sufficient to trigger the spell; the subject must deliberately read it." No wording like that appears in the description of the Explosive Runes spell. This is why I interpret these spells differently.

Thanks for the critical comments, by the way. I think you are helping me to refine my own thinking.
__________
[*EDIT: How about this: In a combat situation, you don't notice anything apart from enemy combatants unless you make a Spot check (or should it be a granted Search check?), and a distraction penalty of –5 applies. If you nonetheless approach within 10 feet of prominently displayed Explosive Runes while you are engaged in combat, and you make a Spot check at DC 12 (the correct DC for a creature of Diminutive size, if I'm not mistaken), you trigger the runes. See, I'm refining my thinking already!]

[Deophaun]

So Duke, in your games, for the price of 150 gp, you can get an arrow with a piece of paper tied to it (so that it's not destroyed as part of the ammunition) that automatically does an additional 6d6 Force damage (no save) to a literate target.

Sweet.

[SoraWolf7]

So Duke, in your games, for the price of 150 gp, you can get an arrow with a piece of paper tied to it (so that it's not destroyed as part of the ammunition) that automatically does an additional 6d6 Force damage (no save) to a literate target.

Sweet.

This is the delivery system I had in mind for the Explosive Runes, except with throwing knives. It'd be pretty hard to ignore reading an explosive rune that gets attached in front of your eyes in your helmet, or one that gets nailed at your feet. I did also realize that using multiple of these would not work because unless all triggered at the same time, the first Rune would literally blow the others away and probably destroy the paper/parchment/scroll/cloth they're on. So taking that into consideration, does anyone think this can be possible? Because I think that'd be a great build to make.

[Deophaun]

[*EDIT: How about this: In a combat situation, you don't notice anything apart from enemy combatants unless you make a Spot check (or should it be a granted Search check?), and a distraction penalty of –5 applies. If you nonetheless approach within 10 feet of prominently displayed Explosive Runes while you are engaged in combat, and you make a Spot check at DC 12 (the correct DC for a creature of Diminutive size, if I'm not mistaken), you trigger the runes. See, I'm refining my thinking already!]
Translation: If you took ranks in Spot, $%^& you!

I tend to believe that if you need house rules to balance out a questionable RAW interpretation, you should re-evaluate the questionable RAW interpretation.

[Ashtagon]

My take on explosive runes is that

a) The runes cannot be bigger than about 1/3 inch high (normal sized handwriting), so no making billboards.

b) Reading a rune is a conscious act of will. A casual glance will determine that there is some writing (and what script it is in if the viewing character is literate in that script), But they don't get triggered or read by a PC unless he says "what does it say?" or "I read the page" or something similar (and equivalent for NPCs).

c) The actual runes are in the writing system (English letters, Cyrillic, Chinese ideograms, futhark, etc.) of the caster's choice. The caster need not be literate in the script, although he must have personal knowledge that the script exists. The actual text may optionally mean something in a language with which the caster is literate.

[Duke of Urrel]

So Duke, in your games, for the price of 150 gp, you can get an arrow with a piece of paper tied to it (so that it's not destroyed as part of the ammunition) that automatically does an additional 6d6 Force damage (no save) to a literate target.

Sweet.

People imagine that all kinds of cheesy things can be done by tying things to arrows. But have you ever tried to shoot an arrow straight that has a piece of paper tied to it? We're talking about a –6 penalty to hit anywhere near your target, at a minimum. Either that, or the paper tears off in mid-flight, with unintended and possibly unfortunate results.

Imagine the reverse situation for a moment. No creature that isn't actively trying to read Explosive Runes can possibly trigger them. Okay, so when the kobold sorcerer who's pursuing you picks up that scrap of paper you left behind and sees your Explosive Runes on it, she says, "Hmmm. Magic Runes! Very interesting. I shall have to read them the next time I get the chance. But right now, I've got to track down those pesky adventurers." Hey, what's the problem with that? She didn't read your Explosive Runes, she just looked at them!


Translation: If you took ranks in Spot, $%^& you!

I tend to believe that if you need house rules to balance out a questionable RAW interpretation, you should re-evaluate the questionable RAW interpretation.

Now, THIS is a serious criticism. And I agree; you've got me there. Spot skill and Search skill should be about avoiding magical traps, not triggering them. (More on this later.)


My take on explosive runes is that

a) The runes cannot be bigger than about 1/3 inch high (normal sized handwriting), so no making billboards.

b) Reading a rune is a conscious act of will. A casual glance will determine that there is some writing (and what script it is in if the viewing character is literate in that script), But they don't get triggered or read by a PC unless he says "what does it say?" or "I read the page" or something similar (and equivalent for NPCs).

c) The actual runes are in the writing system (English letters, Cyrillic, Chinese ideograms, futhark, etc.) of the caster's choice. The caster need not be literate in the script, although he must have personal knowledge that the script exists. The actual text may optionally mean something in a language with which the caster is literate.

Here's how I see it. If you look at a text that you're fully capable of reading, and you're close enough to it for it to be clearly legible, then I don't believe you can choose not to read it. And I disagree, Ashtagon, that any kind of comprehension, or even familiarity with an alphabet, should be necessary to trigger Explosive Runes. If you're literate in any language at all and you look at Explosive Runes closely enough to trigger them, then you should unavoidably trigger them. "How does this work?" you ask. "It's magic," I answer.

But this brings us back to the questions I thought I had answered adequately before – except that now I realize that I really didn't...

1. What is close enough when it comes to Explosive Runes? Well, part of that should have to do with size. I think that a half inch of height is a good maximum. This is really in agreement with you, Ashtagon, because the "leading" of any line of text – that is, the "white space" between the dark squiggles – is about one-third of its height. Two thirds of a letter one-half inch high, including the leading, is the same as a squiggle one-third of an inch high.

2. I think I'll also concede that mere legibility is not enough to trigger a read-activated trap if the victim isn't really trying to read anything, but merely looks at it. Explosive Runes of one half-inch height (including the leading) are legible from 10 feet away (and this is true, because I've checked this out myself), but maybe they're not legible enough. (I really did have to look straight at letters this size from 10 feet away in order to read them.) How about cutting the triggering distance of a read-activated rune, compared to that of a sight-activated rune, in half?

We could make this a general rule. If a mystical magic rune is sight-triggered, as for example a Symbol may be, it's triggerable from 60 feet away by any creature that merely looks at it – and to make a magic rune legible from this distance, it would have to be about three inches high. But if the same three-inch-high Symbol is read-triggered, it should be triggerable only from 30 feet away by a literate creature that merely looks at it. Of course, there should be the option of making a read-activated Symbol twice as big as a sight-activated one (to wit, six inches high), so that it, too, may be triggered from up to 60 feet away, as the rules allow.

So let's propose that there's an easy reading distance, within which you can't help but read anything that is legible. And let's propose that easy reading distance is always one-half of maximum reading distance, within which you can read something, but only if you really try. By merely looking at a text within its maximum reading distance, but outside of its easy reading distance, you know that it's a text, but that's all, and if it's read-triggered, but not sight-triggered, you're safe until you actually try to read it.

With this rule in place, there's always the option of reducing the triggering range of a read-activated text by making it smaller. Explosive Runes only one-quarter inch high should be triggerable from no more than five feet away by somebody trying to read them, and from no more than two feet away by somebody trying not to read anything. A two-foot easy-reading range really means that unless you actually pick something up and look at it closely (for example because it looks like a magic wand, scroll, or potion vial), you're not going to trigger it by accident.

3. On the other hand, if you're using Search skill, you're likely to be trying to look carefully at everything, so unless you state clearly that you're trying not to read anything while you use Search skill, I would make it the default assumption that you will read any text that you see within easy reading distance, whether you want to or not.

I have a similar rule regarding touching things. Usually, when you use Search skill, you touch things, uncover things, open things, and pick things up. If you're wary about traps and want to avoid touching anything, you must say that you're not touching anything. Searching without touch means that you won't find anything that's inside a container or underneath anything, no matter how good your Search checks are, though of course you can find the containers or covers. Searching with touch means that you're less likely to miss anything – but also more likely to trigger a trap.

Of course, if you have the rogue's Trapfinding ability or its equivalent, you're free to touch and look at everything while searching. When you do so, you still risk triggering traps by touching things or by looking too long at magic runes, but you always get to make a preventive Search check that allows you to sense any kind of trap just in time to avoid triggering it. So if you want to search an area, but you're worried about magical traps like Explosive Runes, what do you do? Use a divination like the Detect Magic spell from a safe distance, use the Find Traps spell, or get a rogue to do the searching. Or accept the risk that the next thing you look at may be magic runes that blow up on you as soon as you realize what they are – which is what I believe Explosive Runes should do.

How's this?

[Deophaun]

Imagine the reverse situation for a moment. No creature that isn't actively trying to read Explosive Runes can possibly trigger them. Okay, so when the kobold sorcerer who's pursuing you picks up that scrap of paper you left behind and sees your Explosive Runes on it, she says, "Hmmm. Magic Runes! Very interesting. I shall have to read them the next time I get the chance. But right now, I've got to track down those pesky adventurers." Hey, what's the problem with that? She didn't read your Explosive Runes, she just looked at them!
You're assuming that the explosive runes stand out of the text waving pom-poms saying "Look at me! I'm different than any other writing here!" Which is an odd assumption, considering that the spell states:

Magic traps such as explosive runes are hard to detect and disable. A rogue (only) can use the Search skill to find the runes and Disable Device to thwart them. The DC in each case is 25 + spell level, or 28 for explosive runes.
So unless you mistyped and your kobold is a rogue and just made a DC 28 Search check, he's not going to notice there are explosive runes on the paper. To him, it's just ordinary text.

[Ashtagon]

The problem with saying explosive runes are written in some kind of Schrodinger script that is always triggerable is that it falls flat when examined in detail.

Barbarians, being illiterate in everything, cannot trigger the runes. That's pretty much RAW. But my RL self is essentially illiterate in Greek, Cherokee, futhark, Mayan glyphs, hieroglyphics, Arabic, hangul, and quite a few other scripts. The runes themselves can't look in my head, they can only explode or not based on my actions.

I disagree with you on the point of whether a text in front of you must be read simply by virtue of its location. I am fully capable of ignoring text directly in front of me. Maybe that's an artifact of me being hyper-literate (i can read off text in a few different scripts without much of a pause, although my cyrillic reading comprehension is atrocious). But I suspect a semi-literate character who has a reading speed of about ten words per minute would not have much trouble ignoring text before him either.

And if the runes are only triggered by reading and not mere viewing, but viewing is enough to determine the script an ordinary non-magical text is written in, then that begs the question: "What is seen when someone views an explosive rune trap?"

I think part of this disagreement stems from the fact that I see it as fundamentally being a trap spell, whereas this thread started with the premise of how can it be weaponised.

[Curmudgeon]

What isn't up to your DM, though, is that you can chuck them at your opponent and read them yourself.
Can you, really? Because I've tried flinging a magazine around with some pretty big text on the cover, and I can't reliably read it as it's flying through the air. And when it lands, there's no guarantee that it'll have an orientation so that the thrower can read it then.

I think this is most definitely up to your DM: they'll set the Sleight of Hand DC necessary for you to throw your Runes in such a way for them to be aligned toward you upon impact, and the Spot DC for you to read them after they land.

[KillianHawkeye]

The most effective delivery system I've heard of was mentioned a few months ago in a similar thread. It was a summoned celestial monkey. Since they have an Int of 3 and do not have 1 level of barbarian, they can understand common, and so can read the explosive runes.

This was in my gaming group. I know I posted about it before.

The reason that my friend used summoned monsters as the delivery system was precisely to get around the issue of whether or not the target would read or even look at a text containing explosive runes. Now the summons did it for them.

The reason that they were monkeys (as opposed to some other summoned creature) was because the monkeys have hands and can carry the scroll or paper to the target location, open it, and read it. BOOM!

We used to joke that the character became known as "The Exploder" throughout the celestial realms. :smallamused:

[Duke of Urrel]

You're assuming that the explosive runes stand out of the text waving pom-poms saying "Look at me! I'm different than any other writing here!"

How so? Actually, in the example I gave, there was no other text. The Explosive Runes "stood out" from nothing except for the paper they were written on. The kobold noticed them simply by picking up the paper and looking at it.


So unless you mistyped and your kobold is a rogue and just made a DC 28 Search check, he's not going to notice there are explosive runes on the paper. To him, it's just ordinary text.

The Search DC of 28 is required not to activate Explosive Runes, but to identify them as a dangerous magical trap without activating them, which is, of course, much, much harder to do.

My scenario also didn't require the kobold to identify the Explosive Runes as such. She considered them only to be "magic runes," which anybody could have guessed. She avoided triggering them simply by failing to be interested enough in them to read them right now – which is the outcome of a strict interpretation of read-triggering which, in my opinion, nerfs the Explosive Runes spell too much.

[Hyde]

Personally, I treat it as a gaze attack.

[Deophaun]

How so? Actually, in the example I gave, there was no other text. The Explosive Runes "stood out" from nothing except for the paper they were written on. The kobold noticed them simply by picking up the paper and looking at it.
But he doesn't know that they are from an explosive runes spell or magical text at all.

The Search DC of 28 is required not to to activate Explosive Runes, but to identify them as a dangerous magical trap without activating them, which is, of course, much, much harder to do.

Magic traps such as explosive runes are hard to detect and disable. A rogue (only) can use the Search skill to find the runes and Disable Device to thwart them. The DC in each case is 25 + spell level, or 28 for explosive runes.
Let's do that again.

Magic traps such as explosive runes are hard to detect and disable. A rogue (only) can use the Search skill to find the runes and Disable Device to thwart them. The DC in each case is 25 + spell level, or 28 for explosive runes.

Magic traps such as explosive runes are hard to detect and disable. A rogue (only) can use the Search skill to find the runes and Disable Device to thwart them. The DC in each case is 25 + spell level, or 28 for explosive runes.
I would have highlighted "without triggering them," but strangely it seems the SRD does not contain that information. It appears to be something you made up.

[Invader]

Why can't you just say if you read it from more than 10 feet away nothing happens, if you're within 10 feet and you read it, it activates.

[Duke of Urrel]

But he doesn't know that they are from an explosive runes spell or magical text at all.

The kobold in my example didn't have to know that the Explosive Runes were any kind of text in particular. My point was that although she looked at them, she was not interested enough to read them; and that this disinterest (according to an interpretation of read-triggering that I meant to criticize as inadequate) would prevent the kobold from actually reading the Runes, which would also stop her from triggering them. A disappointing result, surely, for the player who cast the Explosive Runes spell.


I would have highlighted "without triggering them," but strangely it seems the SRD does not contain that information. It appears to be something you made up.

Perhaps you or somebody else can explain to me why, if using Search skill as a rogue to detect Explosive Runes does not avoid triggering them, there is any point at all in trying to use Search skill to find magical traps. Because it would seem to me that that the whole point of searching for magical traps as a rogue is to find the traps before you trigger them. Detecting a magical trap after you trigger it, or even at the same time as you trigger it, seems to me to be of no use at all.

[Deophaun]

The kobold in my example didn't have to know that the Explosive Runes were any kind of text in particular. My point was that although she looked at them, she was not interested enough to read them; and that this disinterest (according to an interpretation of read-triggering that I meant to criticize as inadequate) would prevent the kobold from actually reading the Runes, which would also stop her from triggering them. A disappointing result, surely, for the player who cast the Explosive Runes spell.
Except your point was more than that, as you had the kobold in your example explicitly note that the writing was composed of magical runes:

"Hmmm. Magic Runes! Very interesting. I shall have to read them the next time I get the chance. But right now, I've got to track down those pesky adventurers."
If the kobold does not read the paper, then the kobold does not read the paper. You're treating it as though it was meant to be used like a fireball, when it's not. The fact that it's an abjuration spell should be a clue: it's designed to protect information by preventing it from falling into the wrong hands. While it can be weaponized, it requires actual effort to do so.

Perhaps you or somebody else can explain to me why, if using Search skill as a rogue to detect Explosive Runes does not avoid triggering them, there is any point at all in trying to use Search skill to find magical traps. Because it would seem to me that that the whole point of searching for magical traps as a rogue is to find the traps before you trigger them. Detecting a magical trap after you trigger it, or even at the same time as you trigger it, seems to me to be of no use at all.
Because your RAW interpretation is questionable. If you have to explicitly read the runes, there is no problem: You can Search as much as you want, even if you aren't a rogue, and never trigger the explosive runes. But with your interpretation, you need to acknowledge that there is nothing in the Search entry that prevents the runes from exploding. So, you need to ask yourself why you want trap finding to be useless.

[Sephoris]

Arguments of what it takes to read the runes aside, I think it's hard to argue that the runes should be legible from 10 feet. The main issue I have with that is this bit of text:


Anyone next to the runes (close enough to read them) takes the full damage with no saving throw; any other creature within 10 feet of the runes is entitled to a Reflex save for half damage.

Being close enough to read the runes means you get no save. Being within 10 feet means you get a Reflex save. If everyone within 10 feet is close enough to read, and therefore gets no save, there's no reason to describe a save they cannot possibly get.

[Duke of Urrel]

Except your point was more than that, as you had the kobold in your example explicitly note that the writing was composed of magical runes.

You've made this point before, but don't you see how trivial it is? It doesn't matter. I could have re-written my kobold scenario in any number of ways. I could have said that she assumed the Explosive Runes were magic runes, Draconic runes, Infernal runes, or any kind of letters whatsoever. All of that makes no difference at all. My point was that the kobold was able to look at these letters without reading them, purely out of disinterest. This disinterest saved her from the harmful consequences that I believe looking directly at Explosive Runes – at very close range – should have.


If the kobold does not read the paper, then the kobold does not read the paper. You're treating it as though it was meant to be used like a fireball, when it's not. The fact that it's an abjuration spell should be a clue: it's designed to protect information by preventing it from falling into the wrong hands. While it can be weaponized, it requires actual effort to do so.

I prefer to think that I'm treating Explosive Runes as a kind of read-triggered Blast Glyph. You will note that the Glyph of Warding spell also belongs to the Abjuration school. I don't believe it is "weaponization" to use Explosive Runes as a kind of barrier. For example, I believe it is highly appropriate to write Explosive Runes on a sign that one hangs from the door of one's laboratory, underneath the words "KEEP OUT. THIS MEANS YOU." If somebody comes too close to that sign and looks at the small print underneath the main message, it should explode. I don't think of that as "weaponization"; I think of that as a defensive booby trap.

I don't believe Explosive Runes are a very effective means of protecting information, unless this information is copied and stored elsewhere, because when they explode, they destroy the thing they are inscribed upon, including any message. The Illusory Script spell is a better means of protecting a temporary message, such as a letter, while the Sepia Snake Sigil spell is a better means of protecting a permanent message, such as a spelltext or a magic scroll.


You can Search as much as you want, even if you aren't a rogue, and never trigger the explosive runes. But with your interpretation, you need to acknowledge that there is nothing in the Search entry that prevents the runes from exploding. So, you need to ask yourself why you want trap finding to be useless.

I am beginning to see what you may have meant by bringing up rogues and Search checks, which I'll confess confused me at first. I do in fact believe that making Search checks in the area around Explosive Runes is a good way to trigger them inadvertently, because searching involves looking at things closely, and that should be a dangerous thing to do around Explosive Runes. But this doesn't apply to rogues with the Trapfinding ability. You don't trigger Explosive Runes by identifying them. You trigger them by failing to identify them and looking too closely at them, not realizing that this is a bad idea. In other words (to sum up):

1. Ignorance doesn't, or shouldn't, protect you from Explosive Runes – unless it is total, as in the case of illiterates, who don't ascribe meaning to any text they see, because they have never acquired this learned habit.

2. Literate people, on the other hand, habitually ascribe some meaning to anything that looks like letters to them. As I have argued above, literate people cannot choose to suppress this habit, which means that when they look at Explosive Runes too closely, they should (unlike the kobold in my example) trigger an explosion, even if they aren't "trying" to read at all. The only question that remains in my mind is this: What amount of looking, at what range, should count as reading something inadvertently?

3. Finally, there are rogues, whose training enables them to detect magical traps from a safe distance, so that if they make a Search check that is good enough, they don't make the mistake of looking closely enough at Explosive Runes to trigger them.

At an earlier point in this thread – when I suggested that making a Spot check or a Search check near Explosive Runes should mean that a literate creature inadvertently reads them – I think you were right to object that a successful Spot or Search check should not trigger a magical trap. Thanks to you, I withdrew my suggestion and have since tried to replace it with another rule. But why are you trying to make the opposite point now? Why are you now trying to argue that a successful Search check, at a very high DC, should trigger Explosive Runes? This does not follow with any necessity from any of the proposals that I have made more recently, all of which have relied on readability range, not on the outcomes of skill checks.

[Deophaun]

You've made this point before, but don't you see how trivial it is? It doesn't matter. I could have re-written my kobold scenario in any number of ways. I could have said that she assumed the Explosive Runes were magic runes, Draconic runes, Infernal runes, or any kind of letters whatsoever.
I disagree. If you know that you are dealing with magic, then you are likely to use detect magic (DC 23 Spellcraft check to identify as explosive runes; which honestly is easy to hit) or suspect a trap. If it is normal writing, then there's no additional grounds for suspicion. That's what I was objecting to in your example: you were giving the kobold an additional reason to suspect a trap or take measures that would have identified the note's true nature for free.

But if that was accidental and not intended, I will let it drop.

My point was that the kobold was able to look at these letters without reading them, purely out of disinterest.
And I do not see why that is a problem.

For example, I believe it is highly appropriate to write Explosive Runes on a sign that one hangs from the door of one's laboratory, underneath the words "KEEP OUT. THIS MEANS YOU." If somebody comes too close to that sign and looks at the small print underneath the main message, it should explode.
This is not what you've been saying. You've stated that merely being next to the explosive runes is enough to trigger them. No conscious effort to look at them required.

But you're argument here is "because under my interpretation explosive runes can still be used defensively, that means that it's still hard to weaponize." This is a non sequitur.

I don't believe Explosive Runes are a very effective means of protecting information, unless this information is copied and stored elsewhere, because when they explode, they destroy the thing they are inscribed upon, including any message.
I said "preventing it from falling into the wrong hands." You put explosive rune on your confidential message to your contact. If someone reads it who you do not designate, the culprit might be killed (and if he's not, the injuries from the blast may raise suspicions) and your message is safely removed from the hands of spies. Illusory script, on the other hand, is security through obscurity, which isn't that secure when your opponents have the message in their possession (and saves can be made). It's more a delaying tactic than anything else.

But why are you trying to make the opposite point now? Why are you now trying to argue that a successful Search check, at a very high DC, should trigger Explosive Runes? This does not follow with any necessity from any of the proposals that I have made more recently, all of which have relied on readability range, not on the outcomes of skill checks.
My argument is not that a high Search check should trigger the runes. That's a normative statement which I disagree with. It's that your changes have made it so that a Search check does trigger them. It's a consequence of not allowing players to say what their characters are or are not reading, and calls into further question your interpretation of how explosive runes work. If that was truly how the game worked, it would deserve to be in the dysfunctional rules thread.

[Emmerask]

Can you, really? Because I've tried flinging a magazine around with some pretty big text on the cover, and I can't reliably read it as it's flying through the air. And when it lands, there's no guarantee that it'll have an orientation so that the thrower can read it then.


Yep pretty much this.
Knowing what is written on the paper and reciting it is not the same as actually reading it, so the throw thing is highly unlikely to work reliably or even the majority of times.

My general stance though is seeing that casters and especially wizards are more then powerful enough, anything that is open for interpretation will be interpreted in the least favorable way for casters... and then they are still complete and utterly op :smallwink:

[aleucard]

My responses are bolded.


Who, exactly? Would it be better if we used fiendish scorpions instead, or are the evil analogues of your "last people the PCs want to get on the wrong side of" known for their concern over the well being of their cannon-fodder (or, rather, unaffiliated cannon-fodder that just happens to inhabit the same general area)?

Good and (to a lesser degree) Neutral summons are liable to have people actually give a **** about their underlings/grunts/goons/etc., so them being misused for perceived stupidity like this would draw ire from them. Obviously most Evil people aren't going to give a ****; if they're CE, they might find it funny as Hell, and actually like being used that way. It's the sheer 'Killer Rabbit of Caerbannog' -ness that would do it, really. NE or LE wouldn't much care, as said, though having a goon space out (best understanding of what being 'summoned is like for the summon is them daydreaming in their home-plane while summoned) while it's doing something they find important and it coming back with this would probably not go over too well (and be rare, so only if the tactic is abused or after a long time of it).

I'm rather curious as to what entity, with all the other stuff that often happens in a D&D campaign, is going to drop anything to hunt someone who is minorly inconveniencing celestial monkeys in this way. Slow day in Astral plane?

Outsiders, being the Immortal beings they are (or so absurdly long-aged that for us they may as well be) are probably able to take a day to deal with a comparatively minor irritation if it bugs them enough, though this runs headlong into the thing above. They have a lot of time on their hands, and not every second of it is vital.

But, more to the point, there's nothing in the spell that allows them to disobey.

True, but this is short-sighted; my concerns are for if someone takes offense and acts outside of being Summoned. If a summon can remember what they did while summoned, they could be motivated to get retribution (or complain to whichever boss authorized them to be on the summon list) if they don't like it. While a Neutral character could summon a Good monster and have them do evil acts, the summon is going to be the kind of pissed that legends are generated from; not to mention what'll happen if that particular story spreads around whichever realm that summon normally resides in.

Since monsters summoned through Summon Monster X do not die, there is no such thing as a suicidal order. So, this is an easy agreement to stick to.

While true, nobody likes being taken away from their day to do stupid **** that demeans their very existence. This is minor, yeah, but depending on how much rod a certain summon has shoved up their tailhole, it could become Smite worthy if done too often, or at least some form of personal reprimand.

[Deophaun]

My responses are bolded.
My responses are actually typed to make quoting them less of a pain.

Obviously most Evil people aren't going to give a ****; if they're CE, they might find it funny as Hell, and actually like being used that way.
So the objection is to a celestial monkey being used that way, not a fiendish scorpion. So the spell can do exactly what it does, but if the player doesn't read your mind as to what particular summon is appropriate for that task, well, then we get to screw with him.

Outsiders, being the Immortal beings they are (or so absurdly long-aged that for us they may as well be) are probably able to take a day to deal with a comparatively minor irritation if it bugs them enough, though this runs headlong into the thing above. They have a lot of time on their hands, and not every second of it is vital.
First of all, they need to be powerful enough to planeshift. Does that read like someone that's going to busy their hands with a few celestial monkeys occasionally taking the day off for explosive runes duty? And they're going to go after a wizard. I guess planeshift and a low Int score are now on the list of requirements that includes "has underlings that are no more than the outer planes' equivalent of wildlife" and "has nothing better to do." This is not sounding at all like "the last people the PCs want to get on the wrong side of." Sounds like a future target of planar binding.

If a summon can remember what they did while summoned, they could be motivated to get retribution (or complain to whichever boss authorized them to be on the summon list) if they don't like it.
So now the celestial monkey himself is going to exact revenge upon the (at least) fifth level wizard. I hope he prepared prestidigitation that day, because the poo will be flying!

And this is also now assuming that there's some bureaucracy involved in regulating summons, marking Bobo as summonable but Chimchim as off-limits.

Furthermore, this entire line of argumentation relies on the idea that you're summoning the same creature over and over again, which is not how summon monster works by default. It's random. If you summon a hundred celestial monkeys it's unlikely that any two of them have even met, let alone that it causes enough disruption in any environment for anyone of any import to take note.

While true, nobody likes being taken away from their day to do stupid **** that demeans their very existence.
It doesn't so much as demean the celestial monkey's existence, so much as fulfill it. Without the ability to be summoned to set off traps, retrieve objects from dangerous situations, and all and all be a party's guinea pig, the Celestial Monkey would languish in obscurity in the MM and do nothing more legendary than eat celestial bananas.

[Rijan_Sai]

While I'm a couple of days late on this, I do have a couple of thoughts:

On Summon Monster (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/summonMonsterI.htm)) While not specifically RAW, we always play SM's as though they are basically Astral Projections (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/astralProjection.htm), essentially real while there, as soon as they are killed/dispelled/out of time, they return to their plane completely unharmed. (Their body is prorected by the eqivalent of Resilient Sphere (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/resilientSphere.htm) while summoned.) This applies to other Summon X spells, as well.

On Explosive Runes (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/explosiveRunes.htm))

..BB
BAAB
BAAB
..BB
.
^This is the 10' radius range for spells. (I assume that, for consistancy sake, they use the same range for the "within 10 feet" part of the spell.)

That being the case, anyone in the "A" range gets no save, while anyone it the "B" range does.

As for reading, I agree that there should be more effort then a casual glance, but not much. Going to the Kobold example above, that much looking at the paper would most certainly let her know that there were magical runes, as they exploded in her face.
...
...
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Sadly, I've completely lost my train of thought...I had more to say about Rune Reading...

[Segev]

1) For the OP: Unseen Servants expressly can perform any task that does not require a skill check higher than DC 10. Reading presumably doesn't; I'm fairly sure you could even have them follow written instructions of a simple sort (like "put these files in the 'in' box"). Therefore, instruct your Unseen Servants to carry the folded piece of paper up to within 5 ft. of your target, and then to open it and read it.

2) Regarding "searching and detecting" the runes. Does the fact that the spell doesn't specify that rogues do not detonate them, and therefore "obviously" they set them off if they read them, mean that non-rogues can't even set them off because they can't find them at all in order to read them?

[strider24seven]

I had a fun build idea involving Explosive Runes, and I wanted to know if Explosive Runes must be read if the runes are in line of sight and proper range of the other person. And if so, are there any checks or saves a person can make to not read the runes aside from a Search Check made by a rogue.

I'd just like to point out that everything becomes a little easier with a little Mindrape (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCsQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdndtools.eu%2Fspells%2Fbook-of-vile-darkness--37%2Fmindrape--165%2F&ei=YioWUvCHFfLB4AORx4CQCw&usg=AFQjCNF76QJhmin-mnoR4IoMvZNg6fmmsQ&sig2=bg-vfcp6_nY3U05Hwt-CTw)...

[Deophaun]

2) Regarding "searching and detecting" the runes. Does the fact that the spell doesn't specify that rogues do not detonate them, and therefore "obviously" they set them off if they read them, mean that non-rogues can't even set them off because they can't find them at all in order to read them?
Please do note that the Search issue is only in regards to a peculiar and non-standard ruling that explosive runes detonate because characters are unable to control whether they read text or not, as there is nothing in the Search skill that allows them to not read.

[Segev]

Please do note that the Search issue is only in regards to a peculiar and non-standard ruling that explosive runes detonate because characters are unable to control whether they read text or not, as there is nothing in the Search skill that allows them to not read.

Okay. What is the contrary rule for which you advocate and use this as an example of why it should work as you suggest?

[Deophaun]

Okay. What is the contrary rule for which you advocate and use this as an example of why it should work as you suggest?
Well, as it was stated that the problem is a non-standard ruling that characters are unable to control whether they read text or not, I think the logical contrary rule would be that characters are able to control whether they read text or not, no?

[Segev]

Ah. Okay, so it's basically, "Unless I say 'I read that wall,' I didn't read it, even if I am staring at it and/or studying it closely."

I suppose, to be fair, the DM can't have anything you read be part of "boxed text;" he just describes that there is writing on the wall, and waits for somebody to ask him what it says before he assumes they read it?

[Deophaun]

I suppose, to be fair, the DM can't have anything you read be part of "boxed text;" he just describes that there is writing on the wall, and waits for somebody to ask him what it says before he assumes they read it?Yes.

In general, the DM should wait for a player to say "What's it say" or "I read the text." But, that's not to say there can be exceptions for dramatic effect. Giant banners and signs aren't so much of a problem to auto-read, as unless the DM is cheesing these kinds of traps, there's nothing potentially harmful in reading them. It's more notes, books, and that kind of writing where traps can reside that represent a threat and, conveniently, are also inappropriate for boxed text.

[Segev]

It would take an honest group of players, but I am now amused by the idea of having the actual page of writing done up as a prop, and where the Explosive Runes show up, having it suddenly say, "Say, loudly, 'KABOOM!', because the page just exploded in your hands."


For a group of players you don't trust to be scrupulously honest about this, instead have it say, "And in reading this, you gain the [insert appropriate reward-sounding name here] effect. Ask the DM about it."