Is it fair to use dismissal on players?

[CyberThread]

I know it is a gentlmens agreement for things like Mage's Disjunction on players and such, but if a player is plane hopping and exploring about. Should the same thought hold true for DM's using dismisl spells on players visiting other planes?

[Segev]

It's really a question of whether you want them exploring those planes or not. If they get Dismissed to readily too often, they'll likely stop bothering. It's not crippling, though, except that it basically removes them from that plot if you send just one of the party back...or it is a non-issue as the party just helps them get back right away.

So it's not so much "uncool" as it is "potentially annoying and counterproductive if you want them out there."

Used sparingly but appropriately, it's kinder than a save-or-die as it just takes a Plane Shift and a Teleport to get back, as opposed to a Resurrection, and doesn't cost levels.

[awa]

dismissal seems like a spell likely to split the party which is huge headache

[Jon_Dahl]

dismissal seems like a spell likely to split the party which is huge headache

I agree. Other than that, it's just fine to use it against PCs. The PCs actually lose nothing; In MJ they can lose quite a bit.

[Mando Knight]

It's really annoying and best used against summoned allies and/or infrequently. The spellcasters should not have to have a backpack filled with Greater Teleport and Plane Shift scrolls on hand. Or craft a custom reusable magic item that does the same.

One clever use of Dismissal is to have the thing they're fighting to be extraplanar itself, and cast a self-Dismissal to escape when the going gets rough (it's a 4th level spell for Clerics, as opposed to 5th level for Teleport as any caster).

[Slipperychicken]

I know it is a gentlmens agreement for things like Mage's Disjunction on players and such, but if a player is plane hopping and exploring about. Should the same thought hold true for DM's using dismisl spells on players visiting other planes?

I could see it if the enemy has a good reason to suspect the PCs aren't native to that plane. It's fair game (just a setback, after all), and much safer than a save-or-die.

Also could work as a merciful "warning shot", as though to say "I don't want to kill you, but I will if you make me."

[Ace Nex]

It also can provide some unique encounters and experiences. If a player is becoming too brash or bullheaded, send them someplace where they cannot succeed on their own and need to depend on teamwork with another person OR survive until rescue. It can incredibly inconvenience casters as their ways of returning aren't always accurate and can place them miles away from their intended destination. If you don't mind, one of my favorite things to do (but hardly ever get to do) is pairing. Sure, it takes longer to play out, but it's good if you have a side thing going on (PCs are about to level, so have the ones who already have gone level themselves while waiting and decide on what feats, skills, and spells they would like), have dinner or food available so they can spectate and eat at the same time, or let them research. The key part is keeping them engaged in D&D. If you make the fights really unique and really interesting you'll have them on the edge of their seats and it can be a really good session. That being said, it's also pretty easy to botch this as well, so plan it out beforehand. I'd recommend running it over with someone not in the campaign but familiar enough with D&D or story telling/writing (D&D pretty much is a big story) if you have doubts about your ability to pull it off. Also, familiarize yourself with the rules for everything. It takes away from an encounter that takes place as the party is fighting while free falling from 25,000 feet or on the plane of air if you constantly need to keep checking the rules for that. It interrupts the flow of gameplay and creates opportunities for players to disengage. Another important part is that if you pull this off in pairs, your PCs SHOULD be somewhat invested in their characters and Roleplaying them. By Plane Shift, imagine you're thrown into the plane of fire, and the only people who can save you have no idea where you are or even what plane you're on. I would be freaking out, and it can be used to show some insight into how deep a character can be. Chemistry arises from when new elements are seen from two seperate characters when they interact. If one character is a timid scardy cat and the other is a bashful loudmouth, it's possible the loudmouth step up and try to encourage the timid player, showing a caring side of his character and perhaps allowing some development in the timid character towards a braver side for their friends, demonstrating loyalty.

Also, if you know a character can't make it to the next session, you can dismissal them away. The party will be left to either complete their objective or try to rescue the character, either option should take a session. Those who could make it get rewarded with some extra XP and loot, and the guys who missed a session doesn't feel like he missed all that much storywise, it's a win-win. THAT BEING SAID, don't use it too much and let it become overused. It's wonderful when used sparsely, but if it's used every other week because Johnny has a bad work schedule, then it gets old really quickly.

SO Back to the question at hand, I think it's perfectly OK to use dismissal. Save or dies are pretty much worse, and we don't see very many qualms with them. On the other hand, it can really create some great opportunities if used correctly, but please make sure you CAN use it correctly before attempting to do so.

[Crake]

I have a really powerful set of players, one of which is a succubus. I throw dimensional anchor or dismissal his way to remind him of his place. He's *really* scared of being sent back to the abyss, he doesn't like it there and has no way to get back to the material plane on his own, and dimensional anchor stops him from using his teleport/ethereal jaunt at will abilities, so his escape mechanism is shot down too. Once, when they were fighting a cleric erinyes (cleric levels gestalted with outsider HD, same as the players are, but 2 levels higher, I thought it would make for a balanced boss fight) He hit the succubus with dimsissal and when that failed, used his rod of quicken to put a dimensional anchor on him so he couldn't teleport willy nilly to escape. Scared the living crap out of him and he just pissbolted, leaving his party for dead (as you do when you're a succubus, right?)

[nedz]

You are right to be judicious with dismissal. When the party first acquire the ability to plane shift then this could cause them some grief to the extent that it might result in what amounts to a side quest to reunite the party; this is not necessarily a bad thing, but would get old very quickly. At high level though, then it could result in the PC being out of the combat for no more than a round or two; it might even be advantageous to them.

So: it's a perfectly fair and reasonable attack form, but you need to be aware of the consequences for the party concerned.