Magic and material copying sword, how abusable?

[Pinkie Pyro]

I wish to give my players a sword that copies the magic and materials of things the blade touches, much like minmax's sword from Goblins, however before I do, I'd like to know just how abusable this would be.

the rules for the weapon would be:
It can copy any materiel except flesh, and any enchantment on the material.
In the case of copying an enchantment with charges, the weapon draws power from the original source of power.
All bonuses from copied enchantments stack with the original source, but interact with others as normal.

As far as I can see, this should allow them to double bonuses from some of their equipment, allow more than one person to use the same wand at once, and such.

[ArcturusV]

Oddly knowing some of my players I'd expect more of the interparty clashing and sabotage over it. "Oh, you wanted to use that Wand of Cure Light Wounds on yourself to stave off death? Well I copied it and used all it's charges to save myself instead! HA HA HA!"

... that would end up happening with a lot of the jokers I've played with. And that would devolve into PvP Spy vs Spy sort of things real quick...

I'm sure the Stacking thing would probably get abused too. But it's not a primary concern. The copying charges item is in my mind. Just because that's going to be PvPish. How many times do you get to tap your sword against some evil wizard's Staff of Power? Not many compared to the chances you'd get to tap your own ally's.

[Pinkie Pyro]

Oddly knowing some of my players I'd expect more of the interparty clashing and sabotage over it. "Oh, you wanted to use that Wand of Cure Light Wounds on yourself to stave off death? Well I copied it and used all it's charges to save myself instead! HA HA HA!"

... that would end up happening with a lot of the jokers I've played with. And that would devolve into PvP Spy vs Spy sort of things real quick...

I'm sure the Stacking thing would probably get abused too. But it's not a primary concern. The copying charges item is in my mind. Just because that's going to be PvPish. How many times do you get to tap your sword against some evil wizard's Staff of Power? Not many compared to the chances you'd get to tap your own ally's.

I know my players, the worse thing they'd do is steal the sword from each other. Dirty theives lovable rouges the lot of 'em.

[Crake]

How many times do you get to tap your sword against some evil wizard's Staff of Power? Not many compared to the chances you'd get to tap your own ally's.

I would think the idea would be to allow two people to activate the same item in one round, so for example tap it against the wand of CLW, heal up the party in half the downtime since two people can use it at once now. I'd assume the charges would be transferred willingly, unless this is actually a PvP focused game.

[ArcturusV]

Yeah. Abusable or not would be a matter of your group dynamics in general. Just saying the guys I've played with? They'd do it in a spirit of PvPishness. For several reasons. For example, such a sword would be very key for someone like Minmax the Unstoppable Warrior, or some players I've been saddled with, who need to be the "hero" of everything. The guys who see themselves as the main character and everyone else is just there to be supporting cast. They'd love a weapon like that and would steal charges or the like not to share and double the number of Fireballs, Cures, etc, being tossed around. They'd do it so that they could have all the powers and do it instead of the other guy. Glory hounding.

Then there are the players that are just out for themselves. These are the guys who do things like palm treasure instead of sharing it after a fight. Or "forget" to tell their bleeding and dying ally that they have a Healing Potion because they might need the healing potion themselves at some later point. They'd probably do that just so they could have the resources on hand independent of if someone felt like sharing. And wouldn't think twice about doing it without asking.

I mean I can see abuses and problems. But mostly it's a result of having crappy players like the above types.

[Sith_Happens]

Funny story, my group actually just found such a sword last session, though we haven't had much of a chance to use it yet. Don't know about the sword you plan on giving your group, but ours has a switch on the pommel to lock it to its current composition, so one idea I've had so far is to keep small bits of various special materials on hand to replicate a better version of the Metalline property.

(Funnier story, we found a Shield of Wonder together with the sword. Of course it was the player of the highest-INT party member who insisted on hitting them together to see what would happen. Protip: Never, ever do that.)

[TuggyNE]

I wish to give my players a sword that copies the magic and materials of things the blade touches, much like minmax's sword from Goblins, however before I do, I'd like to know just how abusable this would be.

Goblins is a very 2e-style world, and all the custom magic items in it seem to follow the general paradigm of being wildly unbalanced and usually far too powerful. (For example, giving an upgraded version of an epic weapon special — Triple-Throw — to a 3rd-level party.)

This particular one is very abusable; if anything, I'd consider Minmax!156's use of it about as tame as you could reasonably get. It's not necessarily the most powerful/weird major artifact so far seen in the comic, but it's right up there.

[Psyren]

Can you choose when to copy something, or to drop a material you don't want? Say the sword accidentally brushes some cloth or a stone archway, would it become that material?

[Sith_Happens]

This particular one is very abusable; if anything, I'd consider Minmax!156's use of it about as tame as you could reasonably get. It's not necessarily the most powerful/weird major artifact so far seen in the comic, but it's right up there.

Care to list some of the less-tame uses? Like I said, one of my characters is already in possession of such a sword.:smallbiggrin:

[Nettlekid]

I believe it would indeed copy things like a stone arch or a piece of cloth if it tapped against those, but you could fix it by just tapping again against whatever you want it to copy.

Perhaps you could have it be a full-round action to attune it to whatever you want to copy. That way you wouldn't have to bother with things like random taps, or copying the enemy's armor if you miss due to AC. Or copying its own sheath.

I think the potential to break this copy ability would happen by combining many different abilities. It's already unslotted as compared to any other item, which is good. Several items combine more than one power within them (especially custom magic items, but not just those) so if you touched it to those, you'd get all those powers put together. If you go to a very expensive magic mart and see something you want but can't buy, touch it to the item, and get the powers for free. Especially if it happens to be a wand or staff, that you can drain the charges from long after you leave the village.

What happens if it's combined with spells? Like if someone shoots Disintegrate at the sword? Does it become like a lightsaber of Disintegrate, Disintegrating everything it touches? What about doing basically what Minmax did and touching it to a Sphere of Annihilation? It would make a very good shield in that case, actually. Anything attacking you meets itself, and probably can't overcome its own power.

But what would really break it is being clever with weapon special abilities that you copy. For example, the Manyfang Dagger from Serpent Kingdoms. If you copied its duplicates-lash-out power, and then used that to very cleverly attack like four objects at once, would it stab them all and then copy the powers of each, reforming into a sword that had all those objects' powers? And of course, the Splitting Arrow. Touch it to a Splitting Arrow (perhaps a Raptor Arrow so it doesn't break), toss it (perhaps get the Throwing special ability too on it somehow), and let it split into two swords, both with all the same non-Splitting magical properties of the original. Namely, two swords with the power to copy whatever they touch. Like the same original Splitting Raptor Arrow. You now have hundreds of magic copy swords.

[ArcturusV]

Well if you go with the unreasonable "Anything it touches, it copies"... you end up with the Starmetal problem.

Roughly from some book I had ages ago, Tough Guide to Fantasy Land:

Starmetal: Starmetal swords can cut through anything. And at first glance this seems like a good thing. But soon it proves to be problematic as your sword is constantly cutting through your sheathe, and should you ever drop it, it would fall non stop to the center of the planet, cleaving through any floor, dirt, or stone that would possibly have stopped it.

Similarly if it copied "Anything" you'd have an annoying problem where it'd constantly copy your gloves/gauntlet, or the air, or your scabbard, or the dirt where you rested it on the ground. And the moment it touches something like Rain you'd stop having a sword and start having a puddle... which would then turn into mud when it hit the ground. Etc, etc, etc.

Not something I'd ever DO with it myself. But I have known people who WOULD do that. :smallsigh:

[Nettlekid]

Well if you go with the unreasonable "Anything it touches, it copies"... you end up with the Starmetal problem.

Roughly from some book I had ages ago, Tough Guide to Fantasy Land:

Starmetal: Starmetal swords can cut through anything. And at first glance this seems like a good thing. But soon it proves to be problematic as your sword is constantly cutting through your sheathe, and should you ever drop it, it would fall non stop to the center of the planet, cleaving through any floor, dirt, or stone that would possibly have stopped it.

Similarly if it copied "Anything" you'd have an annoying problem where it'd constantly copy your gloves/gauntlet, or the air, or your scabbard, or the dirt where you rested it on the ground. And the moment it touches something like Rain you'd stop having a sword and start having a puddle... which would then turn into mud when it hit the ground. Etc, etc, etc.

Not something I'd ever DO with it myself. But I have known people who WOULD do that. :smallsigh:

In the comic that the OP is taking the sword from, it was speculated to have magical defenses to stabilize it, so if it copied ice it wouldn't melt and if it copied fire it wouldn't flicker out. I guess since this is a totally made-up magic item, the OP can spec it in any way they want, to prevent stuff like that from happening. Like saying it has to be mentally attuned to be capable of copying, either through like a full-round action or maybe a Swift action mental command before striking what you want to copy, etc. There would be a lot of kinks, but we can assume it works the way the OP wants it to work.

[Silva Stormrage]

I actually used this as an artifact in my current campaign world. Mine was slightly different though.

1: I didn't specify exact rules for how it transformed so if the players found something incredibly abusable I could just handwave it and say it doesn't work. (Last resort of course)
2: It could duplicate items with limited uses (Such as wands and potions, etc) and duplicate them with its own set of charges. However, it would only be able to duplicate those such items once. For example, if the sword touches a wand of enervations that has 50 charges, then uses 10 charges. The wand still has 50 charges and the sword has 40. If the sword duplicates something else then touches the SAME wand it would still have 40 charges left, not the 50 of the wand.
3: It wouldn't duplicate anything that an unwilling creature is wearing (Armor, sword, flesh, hair, etc)
4: It won't duplicate any artifacts
5: Can't duplicate flesh or living creatures (or undead creatures).
6: An ice sword won't melt a fire sword can't be put out, if it turns into a liquid it will turn into a flowing blade of that liquid.
7: If it touches anything that it can transform into it transforms, no "Locking" a material in.


The result was actually interesting, it was TERRIBLE as a melee weapon. The character who had it would get tripped, the sword would hit the floor and he would lose the enchantment. The character gets knocked out: the sword hits the floor and loses its enchantments. It was vastly more efficient and duplicating other magic items, of course mine doubled the charges of such an item.

Also due to my players lack of imaginations they for some reason thought it could only duplicate weapons so they never used it to duplicate other items such as scrolls, potions or wands. Eventually they TPKed and lost the sword and a vampire lord has it now and is using the sword quite effectively. (Their new characters are in the same setting and one of their OOC goals is to get back that sword :smalltongue:)

[Magnera]

The worst I could see happening is copying powerful poisons or copying absurdly rare charges such as Wish. It all depends upon the user. Imagine if you found all the rings of three wishes in the world and doubled the wishes. :smallbiggrin:

[Edge of Dreams]

Starmetal: Starmetal swords can cut through anything. And at first glance this seems like a good thing. But soon it proves to be problematic as your sword is constantly cutting through your sheathe, and should you ever drop it, it would fall non stop to the center of the planet, cleaving through any floor, dirt, or stone that would possibly have stopped it.

Ok, so you drop the sword, and the blade starts slicing into the ground. What about when it gets into the ground up to the hilt? Wouldn't it just stop there due to the force on the hilt or crossguard? And you could certainly build a sheath for it - just design it to be the right size and shape such that friction is applied against the flat of the blade and the crossguard, not the sharp part of the blade.

I mean, come on, it's starmetal, not a lightsaber.