Can you punch someone with a touch spell?

[CyberThread]

So say you have a touch spell or touch ability , can you really only "touch them" or can you do it with a closed fist and attempt to do an unarmed attack while you do the touching?

[Crake]

So say you have a touch spell or touch ability , can you really only "touch them" or can you do it with a closed fist and attempt to do an unarmed attack while you do the touching?

you can attempt an unarmed strike, or even a natural attack if you have one, but when you do that, you need to hit the target's normal AC to deliver the touch spell (and deal the extra damage). Usually the extra 1d3 nonlethal damage, or 1d4-6 for a claw/bite/whatever, for a mage wouldn't be worth having to hit what's usually a significantly higher AC.

[CyberThread]

Would you? Or would it count as the lower of two results? If you make the touch AC but not the normal AC, you still touch them, so the spell would go off.

[herrhauptmann]

Would you? Or would it count as the lower of two results? If you make the touch AC but not the normal AC, you still touch them, so the spell would go off.

Nope, you can't do the either/or thing, though I wish you could. On the other hand, I'd allow it for punching with shocking grasp vs a person in metal armor.

[ArcturusV]

Why? I mean if he's wearing something like Plate armor, he's still got leather and probably wool/cotton padding underneath the metal. Probably wouldn't be any real advantage to the conductive nature.

Other than Rule of Cool or something. Which is always acceptable.

[herrhauptmann]

Why? I mean if he's wearing something like Plate armor, he's still got leather and probably wool/cotton padding underneath the metal. Probably wouldn't be any real advantage to the conductive nature.

Other than Rule of Cool or something. Which is always acceptable.

Because the spell specifically mentions that attacking people in metal armor is easier. And rule of cool.

Otherwise, yeah, you're right. A guy in full plate is pretty much wearing a lightning proof squirrel cage, he just needs a grounding strap from his greaves or sabatons to the ground. But that's too real-world for me.

[Manly Man]

I once made a Magus that got insulted by how some guards were treating an old fisherman, so she kicked one of them right in the pills with a shocking grasp spell. It was a fun experience, to say the least.

[StreamOfTheSky]

For anyone other than a PF Magus, using a touch spell through a normal attack is also a bad idea, aside from having to hit full AC, because then any damage of the spell becomes additional dice damage of the weapon (such as unarmed strike) you're attacking with, much like the flaming property on a sword. In other words, you rob yourself of the potential to crit with it for x2 damage.

Magus has spellstrike and the above does not apply to him.

[Chronos]

The other drawback to punching with a spell is that you need to hold the charge to do it. Most touch spells give you a free attack in the same round to deliver it with, but that free attack is a touch attack that doesn't do your normal punching damage. If that free attack misses, or if you decide for some reason not to use it, then you can continue on later rounds making your choice of touch attacks and normal attacks until it's discharged. You can even make a full attack trying to discharge it.

[nedz]

For anyone other than a PF Magus, using a touch spell through a normal attack is also a bad idea, aside from having to hit full AC, because then any damage of the spell becomes additional dice damage of the weapon (such as unarmed strike) you're attacking with, much like the flaming property on a sword. In other words, you rob yourself of the potential to crit with it for x2 damage.

Magus has spellstrike and the above does not apply to him.

Hmm, well I think Duskblades are designed to do this also and there are several other builds which can pull this off too. Also I don't think crit fishing on a 5% base is terribly reliable.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Also I don't think crit fishing on a 5% base is terribly reliable.

It's still a downside. And IIRC, C.Arcane let you take Improved Critical with touch spells, if you were so inclined.