Advice for 8th-level "paladin" build?

[Cybris75]

One of our players wants to explore a plot idea in a one-shot game (probably two sessions). She will DM, and asked use for 8th-level characters. I usually play wizard, but want to try a character concept I had in mind for an NPC in a future campaign.

The base chassis is Cleric 6 Prestige Paladin 2, race is Lesser Aasimar. His deity is St. Cuthbert, and I'll be pushing the law angle. Later he will gain the saint template as an NPC.
He is young, pretty, very clean, and chaste. He wants to spread the word and smash the enemy (Undead, Evil Outsiders). He is not protective, and is not a healbot, but helps his party if it makes sense.

The stats (very good roll) are:

STR 15+1 (level)
DEX 14
CON 15+1 (level)
INT 14
WIS 16+2 (race)
CHA 18+2 (race)

Domains: Law, Law Devotion
Feats: Power Attack, Divine Might, Mounted Combat

I maxed Concentration, Diplomacy, Knowledge (Religion) and Knowledge (The Planes). After that and the prerequisites there are not many skill points left, and the class skill lists are very narrow. I actually don't want him to be diplomatic in the sense of compromising, but that's the only useful skill on the list.
I want him to tank, be mostly untouchable, but also to dish out some damage (basically he needs stamina, tirelessly fighting the "good" fight).
The problem is: his damage output is really small unless I burn turn attempts. The build is also very low on feats.

Important Equipment:
Heavy Mace +1
Agility Full plate +2 (+1 Reflex)
Heavy steel shield +1
Cloak of Charisma +2
Amulet of Retributive Healing (Healing someone else heals me too)
Belt of Priestly Might (+2 STR, +1 NA)
Ring of Protection +1
Third Eye Improvisation (+5 competence bonus for one skill check)
Least Truedeath Crystal (+1d6 damage vs. undead)
Restful Crystal (Sleep in armor)
Light Warhorse

With that AC is 27, Reflex 11, Will 18, Fortitude 17.

One of his main sources of damage will probably be the Celestial Brilliance spell (BoED), which he puts on his armor and refreshes every week.

Is that a useful character? My main char is a BC wizard, and I'm surprised how little this paladin can actually do.
I have very little experience playing clerics or paladins, what other spells do I need?
Is there a key piece of equipment I missed?
Are there ACFs for replacing the mount that are useful at this level?
Did I do anything really wrong?

We expect to fight undead. The other party members are a barbarian and a rogue/wizard. Optimization is low to mid. Sources are all books, no dragon magazine.

[DMVerdandi]

hmm...
I think that it could be tweeked a bit to make it a little more viable. It's an interesting idea, but it can be executed a teensy bit better. Here are some suggestions.

1. Play a full cleric.
There isn't really any reason to play as a prestige paladin, other than to actually start calling yourself a paladin, but what is in a name really? Why not call yourself a holy knight, or templar, or servant of st.cuthbert. God Hand even? And you don't have to take a single unoptimal class level to do it

Anyhow, my advice is to play as a full cleric. You get more bang for your buck. Diluting it with anything that doesn't advance spell levels fully is just a waste of your time and power.

2. Instead of playing Aasimar, play a human with the otherworldly feat.
You don't get the stat bonuses, BUT, you do get the outsider (native) type.
This scores you proficiency in all weapons and armor.
Simply fluff as necesssary. White hair with feathers in it, and gold eyes, whole nine. Whatever you want really.

3. With your cleric, choose the spontaneous domain spell ACF.
Also chose the war domain for the one you want to make spontaneous.
This allows you to cast war domain spells spontaneously, NAMELY Divine power, which is much better spontaneous than having to deal with the mess of persistent spell.

4.Dump the whole mounted angle.
You don't need a war-horse, because clerics get phantom steed. It is a waste of money and time.
Also as far as feats, go ahead and let the mounted combat thing go.
Even though you have maxed out concentration, casting while riding is nuts. As is just about anything.

What if you are fighting on a hillside? in the ocean? jungle, any environment that isn't good for a horse, even a dungeon. See? waste.

5.Focus on wis.
Cha is a trap for you. Want some extra damage? Pick up intuitive attack and smiting spell instead of divine might and mounted attack.
This is going to allow you to add your wis to attack instead of strength.
Cop yourself a spear and lance of longinus everyone.

Smiting spells will allow you to use spells as touch attacks on your attacks in an attacking sequence.

If you don't want to use a simple weapon, then instead of Intuitive attack, pick up Holy warrior. That one is really a steal. In fact, just get holy warrior instead.
Cleric weapons spells are TOO good to have intuitive attack holding you back from use.

And that means USE THOSE CLERIC WEAPON SPELLS. They kick arse.

[Cybris75]

Thank you for your input, replies below:


1. Play a full cleric.

I really want divine grace. This build will not advance prestige paladin further than level 3, and then I'll either continue cleric or look for another nice prestige class. I only lose 1 caster level and one feat, but +CHA on saves is too good to pass up for me, and is a core part of the concept.

I agree cleric is better in general, of course.


2. Instead of playing Aasimar, play a human with the otherworldly feat.

Interesting, I haven't seen that. Immunity to charm person, hold person etc. is nice, but that's what the saves are for. I'll think about it, but the stat bonuses are really sweet... I already have most proficiencies, though, because I'm not playing cloistered cleric. I use a simple weapon.


3. With your cleric, choose the spontaneous domain spell ACF.

That requires access to two domains, which I do not have. I would need to drop Law devotion. Also, St. Cuthbert does not grant the war domain :smallfrown:


4.Dump the whole mounted angle.

I'm not planning on fighting from horseback anyway. The horse was cheap, and it fit thematically, but as you say, there are so many situations where I can't take my horse with me or where a horse is useless. I only needed the mounted combat feat as a prerequisitve for prestige paladin.

Phantom steed does absolutely not fit my mental image of the character, BTW :smallsmile:


If you don't want to use a simple weapon, then instead of Intuitive attack, pick up Holy warrior.

That also needs the war domain, plus access to 4th level spells, meaning I could take that feat at 9th level at the earliest. I get 4th level spells at 7, but don't get feats at 7 or 8.


And that means USE THOSE CLERIC WEAPON SPELLS. They kick arse.

Which ones would you suggest in particular?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Power Attack is a bit of a waste on a one-hander. I'd switch it for Practiced Spellcaster so you can get +2 out of Magic Vestment and Greater Magic Weapon.

Prestige Paladin gives you proficiency in martial weapons, so switch your heavy mace for a longsword or warhammer.

Instead of the special mount, you can get Charging Smite in PH2 or Underdark Knight in Complete Champion. You may even see if your DM will waive the Mounted Combat feat prerequisite for entering Prestige Paladin if you go with either of those.

Switch out some of your gear. Get rid of your armor completely, and make your weapon and shield masterwork only. Get a Rod of Bodily Restoration (MIC), a Lesser Rod of Extend, and a standard Strand of Prayer Beads with the Bead of Smiting removed (9k gp per DMG pricing). Each day use the Bead of Karma to get a caster level of 12, use the Lesser Rod of Extend to cast Luminous Armor (BoED), Magic Vestment on the armor effect, and Magic Vestment on your shield. You can also switch some stats for a higher Dex, as Luminous Armor has no max Dex bonus. That's Magic Vestment +3 on both for 24 hours, and you'll be able to use Greater Magic Weapon +3 for a 12 hour duration as well.

[dantiesilva]

Funny I am in a game right now started at level 8 and wanted the same thing. Let me give you a tip though.

Cleric 3/Church inquisitor 3/Prestiage paladin 2.

I just gained ninth level and had human paragon in there as well because my guy is a human and well he plows through everything that gets in his path. Take destruction domain (extra smite with no alignment attached to it) instead of law because at level 4 you gain the inquisitor domain which grants +4 bonus on dispel magic. Hope this helps you out some.

PS If you want to take a look at him he is in my signiture Inquisitor Alexander Anderson