Twohand wep. Rogue

[Snoiepix]

Hey guys!
Im very new to D&D and have just recently started playing around with different ideas id like to do. I really enjoy the idea of being a rogue.. with a 2h Falchion. I like the variety a rogue brings in its high number of skillpoints and there class specific skills. What do you guys think? Is it viable? How would one go about to build it with Ability scores and feats? This is what I've been thinking so far at lvl1. (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=634918)

Any help tips and ideas are highly appreciated!

[Srasy]

The main problem with rogues and 2 h hnders is that they should utilize Sendak attack which really likes iterative attacks which a 2 need doesn't give for awhile but a strength based rogue with a level of barbarian for whirling frenzy would be very effective so I would advise 1 rogue/ 1 whirling frenzy barbarian/ then 3 levels of swashbuckler if dex and int based or 2 more rogue then maybe prestige out or go swordsage... The feats you need are craven extra rage and then just try to get unessential feats like knowledge devotion able learner and dark stalker... Also the level of barbarian gives you weapon profecieny so you don't need those feats. I would switch your dex and str scores since 2 handlers give 1.5str bonus to damage. If its cool changing your race to changeling would be interesting since flaws are allowed. I would take out the quick footed trait because it takes off 1 health per level though its not indicated in your health though there might be a difference from quick and quick footed. Also I would really advise searching for the rogue handbook and swordsage is OP.
P.S. sorry if written terribly its really late here
P.s.s. also get pounce with the whirling frenzy barb through spirits lion totem

[DMVerdandi]

You could... at low level things are going to be dicey.
It's good that you are using a two handed weapon right now, actually. More damage, easier to hit.

Here is the rub though... The rogue has medium bab, and really does his damage by sneak attacks. Advancing on an enemy, flanking, denying dex, or surprising the enemy.
Outside of that, often they do minuscule damage.

So here are my suggestions.

1.Sometime soon, dip into a Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian. This gets you pounce in a single level. That means, when you charge, you do a full attack. That dip will also get you a pretty fat d12 hit die, martial weapon proficiency and rage. Not a bad dip at all.

2. Buy Eternal wands/Minor schema
These two are basically just like wands and scrolls, but instead of being useless after their charges are used up, instead they have uses per day.
These are REALLY good for spells that don't increase with caster level. Utility spells basically.

Get enough and you will be gravy. Spells like wraithtouch will be simply priceless for you. Other small buffs are also nice, and try to get spells with long durations.

[Andezzar]

Most of the rogue's damage will come from sneak attack. So you will want to get as many sneak attacks as possible. With a two-handed weapon you are not doing that. In melee you could get more attacks with two-weapon fighting.

Additionally you will want high STR for a Falchion because of the 1.5 STR modifier to damage of two-handed weapon usage. Rogues mostly need DEX, for AC and many skills and INT or CHA. You will most likely not have enough points left to put in STR. STR 15 with a two-handed weapon only gives you 1 point more damage than on a one-handed or light weapon.

BTW, did you roll your stats? Odd values are a pretty bad choice in point-buy.

[MeiLeTeng]

You used the wrong stats for the Falchion, it looks like you grabbed the small Falchion weapon damage. It should be 2d4.

Also, I wouldn't take Weapon Focus for it. It's not a good feat at all unless you absolutely need it for a PrC, then it's just an otherwise bad one.

[Andezzar]

You used the wrong stats for the Falchion, it looks like you grabbed the small Falchion weapon damage. It should be 2d4.Or use a Scimitar. You can wield a scimitar with two hands (getting all the bonuses from THF), but you don't have to.

Don't forget that sneak attack dice do not get multiplied on a critical hit. So the great threat range of Scimitar/Falchion is largely wasted.

[Lafaellar]

If it really is the skill points you want you have several options:

1. Put back that two-handed weapon and play the dual wielding style.
Your primary concern are the skill points, not the weapon.

If you really are adamant about the weapon:

2. Start as a rogue, then take ranger and stick with ranger. Then get the Able Learner Feat. You know have a ranger with all ranger and all rogue class skills and you can skill them on a point by point basis because of able learner (it is located in the Races of Destiny book on page 150). You will only get 6+ int Skill points per level instead of 8+ int but will be much more useful to the party. Not only will you be good at thieving stuff but you will also be useful in the wilderness.
You have full base attack progression except on level 1, a 1d6 sneak attack to compensate for this, far better saving throws and hit points.
You pick Bow combat style and get to be a good archer for free.
You should pick power attack for damage output.

That's for some basics. When you get more familiar with the rules you can always optimise.

[Andezzar]

2. Start as a rogue, then take ranger and stick with ranger. Then get the Able Learner Feat. You know have a ranger with all ranger and all rogue class skills and you can skill them on a point by point basis because of able learner (it is located in the Races of Destiny book on page 150). You will only get 6+ int Skill points per level instead of 8+ int but will be much more useful to the party. Not only will you be good at thieving stuff but you will also be useful in the wilderness.
You have full base attack progression except on level 1, a 1d6 sneak attack to compensate for this, far better saving throws and hit points.
You pick Bow combat style and get to be a good archer for free.
You should pick power attack for damage output.
Take one level of Rogue, one level of Swashbuckler, three more levels of rogue, and the rest Swashbuckler. With the Daring Outlaw Feat (Complete Scoundrel p. 79) at level 6 you get 19 BAB at level 20, 10d6 sneak attack, and with Able Learner you can even maximize some of the rogue skills.

[Snoiepix]

Thanks a lot guys for the imput! There is a hellova lot to take in for a beginner like me but will look closer into what you guys are saying as i dont fully understand everything right now! I Do apriciate what you are doing thanks! <3

[sketchtb]

Or go with the martial rogue from unearthed arcana, basically giving up your sneak attack for fighter feats. I'd also look into giving up the falchion for a guisarme and going with a tripping build.

[Harlot]

A rogue without sneak attack isn't really rogueing ;-)

Are you limited to core books or can you do whatever?

If limited to core:
If you want TWF at least get the Weapon Finesse feat as well so that you may add your dex modifier to hit instead of your str. modifier - that'll be two attacks/round with possible sneak attack damage from flanking.
Assuming ofcourse, that as a rogue, your dex is higher than your str.
And this only works with light weapons. With a a light mace and a short sword that'd be 1d4/1d4/round. (with the -2/-2 penalty already considered)

And maybe weapon focus on whatever weapon you wield as well, adding +1 to your BAB.

If not limited to core: whatever the others said :-)

Or look into the Tome of Battle. A Shadow Hand/Setting Sun Swordsage/rogue combo might be an option.

[PaucaTerrorem]

If it really is the skill points you want you have several options:

...
2. Start as a rogue, then take ranger and stick with ranger. Then get the Able Learner Feat....

Isn't Able Learner a First level feat only?

[Gavinfoxx]

You can two hand and two weapon fight.

Falchion + Armor Spikes works perfectly fine. Just make sure to dip spirit lion totem barbarian to pick up pounce and martial weapon proficiency.

[jaybird]

Try the Scout instead, for Skirmish, which is basically Sneak Attack that activates when you move a certain distance.

[Beleron]

The basic distinction is that martial characters such as fighter and barbarian should be strength based and used two handed weapons with the Power Attack feat (greatsword is best), while rogues should be dexterity based, use light weapons and Two-Weapon Fighting + Weapon Finesse for lots of sneak attacks.

Don't try to mix those styles.

[Gavinfoxx]

The basic distinction is that martial characters such as fighter and barbarian should be strength based and used two handed weapons with the Power Attack feat (greatsword is best), while rogues should be dexterity based, use light weapons and Two-Weapon Fighting + Weapon Finesse for lots of sneak attacks.

Don't try to mix those styles.

Unless you have craaazzzzyyyy high stats, and are allowed more than two flaws...

[Fax Celestis]

Don't forget that sneak attack dice do not get multiplied on a critical hit. So the great threat range of Scimitar/Falchion is largely wasted.

...Unless you take Telling Blow, which adds "successful critical hit" to the list of things that activate Sneak Attack.

Don't listen to these guys, OP, you can totally do this. Get a high crit-range two-handed weapon, take Telling Blow, pump Str and Con, and then beat the hell out of people with your thug rogueliness.

[Gavinfoxx]

...Unless you take Telling Blow, which adds "successful critical hit" to the list of things that activate Sneak Attack.

Don't listen to these guys, OP, you can totally do this. Get a high crit-range two-handed weapon, take Telling Blow, pump Str and Con, and then beat the hell out of people with your thug rogueliness.

You'll also want one of the weapon materials that increases the likelihood of confirming! There are quite a few weapon options which do this. Also, Craven is useful too.

[Greenish]

You'll also want one of the weapon materials that increases the likelihood of confirming! There are quite a few weapon options which do this. Also, Craven is useful too.There's also Bless Weapon, which allows you to auto-confirm all crit threats against Evil opponents. Sacred Scabbard (MIC) is an affordable and action economy-friendly way to grab it.

It doesn't stack with Keen, though, so you'd want to burn a feat on Imp. Crit.

[Gavinfoxx]

There's also Bless Weapon, which allows you to auto-confirm all crit threats against Evil opponents. Sacred Scabbard (MIC) is an affordable and action economy-friendly way to grab it.

It doesn't stack with Keen, though, so you'd want to burn a feat on Imp. Crit.

I don't think Bless Weapon does that as of the most recent printing of the skill...

[Dusk Eclipse]

As per the SRD:



Transmutation
Level: Pal 1
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Weapon touched
Duration: 1 min./level
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
This transmutation makes a weapon strike true against evil foes. The weapon is treated as having a +1 enhancement bonus for the purpose of bypassing the damage reduction of evil creatures or striking evil incorporeal creatures (though the spell doesn’t grant an actual enhancement bonus). The weapon also becomes good, which means it can bypass the damage reduction of certain creatures. (This effect overrides and suppresses any other alignment the weapon might have.) Individual arrows or bolts can be transmuted, but affected projectile weapons (such as bows) don’t confer the benefit to the projectiles they shoot.

In addition, all critical hit rolls against evil foes are automatically successful, so every threat is a critical hit. This last effect does not apply to any weapon that already has a magical effect related to critical hits, such as a keen weapon or a vorpal sword.


However Greenish is right that in order to benefit from the expanded crit range you need Improved critical.

[SowZ]

Here's what I would do if I were you. Go Rogue 4/Swashbuckler X with Daring Outlaw. Daring Outlaw lets your Swashbuckler and Rogue levels stack for determining Sneak Attack dice and a number of Swashbuckler abilities.

You'd get one less than full BAB, Intelligence mod to damage, tons of Sneak Attack dice, and a number of Swashbuckler abilities. Use a falchion, go for it. You'll need fairly balanced stats overall, though. Decent Strength to utilize two handed weapons, (minimum 14. Pick up a +4 Str belt as soon as possible.) Decent Dex because you have to wear light armor. Decent Intelligence for Skill Points and because you add Int. to melee damage.

Even when you can't get sneak attacks, you'll still deal plenty of damage with Power Attack.

[Dusk Eclipse]

You can't use Swashbuckler's int to damage with falchions since they aren't finesse-able, I think one of the elven blades (courtblade perhaps) has a high threat range, but I am not sure and you would need to burn a feat on EWP (or improved racial proficiency if swash get all martial proficiencies and you are an elf).

[SowZ]

You can't use Swashbuckler's int to damage with falchions since they aren't finesse-able, I think one of the elven blades (courtblade perhaps) has a high threat range, but I am not sure and you would need to burn a feat on EWP (or improved racial proficiency if swash get all martial proficiencies and you are an elf).

Oh, right, good point. Hmm. Would you, (OP,) be willing to compromise on the Falchion bit? Otherwise, just go Sneak Attack Fighter and that's that. Simple enough.

[PaucaTerrorem]

The only weapon I know of that you can both finesse and two hand is the spiked chain.

[Andezzar]

Elven Courtblade is a two-handed weapon that can be used with weapon finesse. The Elven Thinblade is a onehanded weapon that can be used with weapon finesse. As a one-handed weapon and without a specific rule as the rapier, it can be used with two hands and all the benefits thereof. Both are exotic weapons and can be found in Races of the Wild.

[Greenish]

Elven Courtblade also shares the high crit range with falchion. The feat investment gets a bit steep, though, making dipping into fighter a thing to consider (which in turn hurts skills).

Going for Str-based style instead of Dex-based one is cheaper in feats, and probably results in more damage, though Dex would have better synergy with many of the skills you're probably interested in.


[Edit]:
Otherwise, just go Sneak Attack Fighter and that's that. Simple enough.Given that his reason for going for rogue in the first place were the skill points and skills list, SA Fighter really doesn't cut it, not even with Thug.


(Sneak Attack Fighter (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#fighter) and Thug (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#fighterVariantThug) are Fighter variants from Unearthed Arcana.)

[Hytheter]

Is no-one going to bring up the fact that Rogue's aren't even proficient with the Falchion? You'd have to dip into a martial class or blow a feat on Martial Weapon proficiency just to use it properly.
The suggested Swashbuckler dips get you that, but it doesn't seem worth it; the falchion doesn't synergise with the Swashbuckler abilities at all.
If its the high threat you want, use a rapier. Same crit range, one handed, works with weapon finesse and Swashbcukler's insightful strike.

You can two hand and two weapon fight.

Falchion + Armor Spikes works perfectly fine. Just make sure to dip spirit lion totem barbarian to pick up pounce and martial weapon proficiency.
Unfortunately, rogues aren't proficient with armor spikes either. edit: oh wait you mentioned that oops

If you're heartset on a falchion though, since you're preferred aspect of the rogue is the skills then maybe you should be a martial rogue, swapping out your sneak attack for Fighter bonus feats. Spend the first one on Martial Weapon Proficiency (Falchion) and go from there.

[Turion]

-snip-
If you're heartset on a falchion though, since you're preferred aspect of the rogue is the skills then maybe you should be a martial rogue, swapping out your sneak attack for Fighter bonus feats. Spend the first one on Martial Weapon Proficiency (Falchion) and go from there.

Martial Weapon Proficiency isn't a fighter bonus feat; fighters never need to take it, barring a few corner cases, and it isn't marked as such.
Honestly, if you get to the point of dropping a feat on weapon proficiency, just get the courtblade. It has slightly better stats and same opportunity cost, although EWP does require BAB +1. As noted, it is also finessable, if you decide to go that route.

[Srasy]

1 rogue/Whirling frenzy spirit lion Barbarian/2 Rogue
str 18
dex 15
con 15+1
int 12
wis 10
cha 12
feats: craven, extra rage, able learner
while raging should have 22 str
so 2 attacks at +7 2d4+9+2d6+4(on sneak attack)
which would average 46 damage if both hit

after that just go into swordsage!
wow did you just make it so you can sneak attack almost all the time with island of blades yep! and you keep it one tell you can get assassins stance.
You can now block attacks with bluff! and teleport and go invisible! and even ignore dr and hardness!

yes you can do more damage with twf and yes this build does have bab problems but it is completely viable and hell of a lot of fun do not i repeat do not let this close minded people sway you from what you envision your character to be!

[Hytheter]

Martial Weapon Proficiency isn't a fighter bonus feat; fighters never need to take it, barring a few corner cases, and it isn't marked as such.

Oh right, well in that case you could just designate it as a normal feat and use the Fighter feat for whatever you would take otherwise.

The courtblade is definitely better though if you're gonna spend a feat. If you have Martial Weapon Proficiency to begin with though, I'd probably use either a Falchion or, more likely, Greatsword.