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View Full Version : What Paladin ability would be best to trade for an equivalent to Pounce? 3.5 D&D



Abbul
2013-08-17, 12:03 PM
Paladins got screwed pretty bad by the best abilities for what I want (to hit like a truck primarily, with several other things) being only allowed by non-lawful classes (Barbarian's Lion Totem, Frenzied Berserker's insane Power Attack), so I have worked to homebrew some stuff to remedy that while keeping it balanced.

I thought I had it pretty much settled when I noticed Barbarians can full attack on a charge, which is just ridiculous. But even then.. I want it. For roleplaying reasons my main character is always a Dwarf Paladin with a Greataxe (or as close as I can get to that). I know it's not optimal in D&D, but it's still fun anyway.


But on to the topic... I need to figure out a Paladin ability to swap for something like the Lion Totem.. I was thinking of calling it Divine Assault, or Holy Assault, or something like that. To me, it's clear the most logical swap would be the special mount. Not only is it sufficiently powerful to be a balanced trade, it makes sense with the animal theme of the totem that originated this.

However, I don't want to give up special mount if I don't have to. I'm not giving up Smite Evil (big part of a prestige class I made, the Knight Crusader).

I suppose Lay on Hands would make sense if necessary. I'm not sure if the others would really be balanced.

I've already given up spells for the Holy Warrior swap in Complete Champion. Although I wouldn't mind swapping that for this Pounce equivalent if that would be balanced. I know about Rhino's Rush as a second level spell, but my character is already level 4 (Fighter, about to switch to Paladin) with a Wisdom of 8.


I'd love to hear some opinions on this.

Fako
2013-08-17, 05:00 PM
Honestly, I was never happy with the Barbarian Totem ACF. The abilities varied wildly in power, and you never really lost much in exchange for what was gained... with that said, let's actually answer your question:

Looking at the Lion Totem, you're trading Fast Movement for Pounce. If you're trading for an ability with similar power to Fast Movement, you could swap out Divine Grace for a Pounce-like effect. Or, if you're looking at Pounce itself, there's more to consider...

The problem with Pounce is that it has a highly variable balance point, mostly dependent on what else goes with the ability. By itself, it's a nice way to move before making a full attack. But you can add other things to it, such as Shock Trooper. Now your charge is a way to get a large amount of damage in exchange for ripping your AC to shreds, but since you are able to attack first the effective power of Pounce goes up.

So, to keep it balanced, you'll need to look at the synergy between pounce and any other features your character has up its sleeve.

Off Topic: You may have already seen them, but there are quite a few homebrewed paladins on the boards here that are quite good. My personal favorite is here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=193554), but it places the paladin at a mid to high tier 3 in terms of power.

Network
2013-08-17, 06:51 PM
The Spiritual Lion Totem gives supernatural Pounce, so it's slightly less powerful than true Pounce (you won't see the difference before 11th level, but Pounce isn't a big deal until that level anyway). I think Fako got it right ; Divine Grace is a fair trade, at least for supernatural Pounce.

Abbul
2013-08-18, 06:01 PM
The Spiritual Lion Totem gives supernatural Pounce, so it's slightly less powerful than true Pounce (you won't see the difference before 11th level, but Pounce isn't a big deal until that level anyway). I think Fako got it right ; Divine Grace is a fair trade, at least for supernatural Pounce.

I'm not familiar enough with certain aspects to know, does supernatural pounce get canceled in an anti-magic field? And is that the sole difference from extraordinary (I assume) pounce?


Thank you both for your opinions. Divine Grace sounds like something I could give up for that.

Network
2013-08-18, 06:16 PM
I'm not familiar enough with certain aspects to know, does supernatural pounce get canceled in an anti-magic field? And is that the sole difference from extraordinary (I assume) pounce?


Thank you both for your opinions. Divine Grace sounds like something I could give up for that.
Yes for both.