Swordsage / Warlock best build

[evyldead]

Hey how would you create a Swordsage / Warlock build i love warlocks and swordsages look like there a cool class would they be good with warlock or no like using hideous blow and something from swodsage stack with eachother or a PrC go along with this kind of build. really anyone who has a build for something like that or using different classes but keeping warlock or swodsage. or using bloodlines with that combo or something

[Dusk Eclipse]

A warlock 4 (for deceive item and not losing further IL)/swordsage 16 gets 9th level maneuvers, some decent invocation (leaps and bounds is neat since it boosts skills really useful to swordsages for example) and allows you to get eldritch claws (dragon magazine)

[Namfuak]

A warlock 4 (for deceive item and not losing further IL)/swordsage 16 gets 9th level maneuvers, some decent invocation (leaps and bounds is neat since it boosts skills really useful to swordsages for example) and allows you to get eldritch claws (dragon magazine)

In addition to this, you can combine eldritch glaive with a standard setting sun swordsage for tripping fun (claws work as well, but glaive is a reach weapon). Another possibility, especially if your DM doesn't allow Dragon Magazine but allows warlocks to qualify for arcane prestige classes with spellcasting requirements, you could go into Jade Phoenix Mage and basically focus on locking down and debuffing enemies.

[nedz]

Hideous Blow is well named.
It is an invocation so

Requires a concentration check to use each round to cast defensively.
It is a standard action so no iteratives for you.

Also you are trading a worse to hit roll for slightly more damage over Eldritch Blast; and you have to be in melle.

If you could get Swordsage to work with Eldritch Claws or Eldritch Glaive then you might have a viable character; BUT what synergy is there between these two classes ?

[Dusk Eclipse]

In addition to this, you can combine eldritch glaive with a standard setting sun swordsage for tripping fun (claws work as well, but glaive is a reach weapon). Another possibility, especially if your DM doesn't allow Dragon Magazine but allows warlocks to qualify for arcane prestige classes with spellcasting requirements, you could go into Jade Phoenix Mage and basically focus on locking down and debuffing enemies.

Errr no, despite it's name Eldricth glaive is still an invocation (and a weapon-like effect), but most importantly it requires a full round action to use, not a full attack, which means it is incompatible with most maneuver.



Hideous Blow is well named.
It is an invocation so

Requires a concentration check to use each round to cast defensively.
It is a standard action so no iteratives for you.

Also you are trading a worse to hit roll for slightly more damage over Eldritch Blast; and you have to be in melle.

If you could get Swordsage to work with Eldritch Claws or Eldritch Glaive then you might have a viable character; BUT what synergy is there between these two classes ?

Coolness mostly and that with Eldritch Claws+Beast strike (also from Dragon magazine) and Unarmed swordsage you can get a pretty decent unarmed damage (4d8+2d6 at level 20 without size increases, INA, SUS and all the miriads of ways to boost unarmed strikes just boost this).

[nedz]

Coolness mostly and that with Eldritch Claws+Beast strike (also from Dragon magazine) and Unarmed swordsage you can get a pretty decent unarmed damage (4d8+2d6 at level 20 without size increases, INA, SUS and all the miriads of ways to boost unarmed strikes just boost this).

OK, I can see this working but it does require that that magazine be available.

The build you were suggesting was only a four level dip in Warlock. Six levels would give you one lesser invocation, and the ability to burn feats on Extra Invocation (Least): both of which are quite powerful. Why the cut off at Swordsage 16, rather than 14 ?

[Dusk Eclipse]

I miscalculated, I thought that more than 4 levels in a non initiator class would mean you loose on 9th level maneuvers, but I checked my maths and you can loose exactly 6 levels and still get them.

As far as Dragon content goes, Eldritch Claws and Beast strike are pretty decent, but you are right it many tables won't allow them, without access to them I don't see any compelling reason to go multiclass warlock and swordsage, though being able to take 10 on UMD is pretty powerful, and eldritch blast can give swordsages a decent range option at low levels.

[gorfnab]

Swordsage 1/ Warlock 6/ Swordsage 2/ Telflammar Shadowlord 6/ Swordsage 5 - Flee the Scene invocation and Assassins Stance gets you into this Nightcrawler like build.

[Snowbluff]

I would suggest using Precocious Apprentice or the like to get into JPM. Progress both Warlock and Swordsage!


Errr no, despite it's name Eldricth glaive is still an invocation (and a weapon-like effect), but most importantly it requires a full round action to use, not a full attack, which means it is incompatible with most maneuver.
Actually, it's technically compatible. You are considered to be threatening squares (and presumably wielding it) after casting the invocation, but you would need to use Quicken SLA to follow up with a strike with wording that allows it.

[Tokiko Mima]

Another good combo for unarmed Swordsages is Eldritch Claw + Beast Strike. You get to double up your unarmed damage and add any eldritch damage to your normal unarmed strike, which you can then use in maneuvers like any other weapon.

Also gets insane if you dip into Shadow Sun Ninja and can heal yourself or others with an unarmed strike once per two rounds. It's like Eldritch Disciple but shorter ranger, a bigger heal and without costing turn attempts.

[Xerlith]

There are some neat homebrewed options, if your DM allows it. Either prestige or base.
For example...
This. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212155)
Or this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102869).

Sadly, official material doesn't support martial adepts at all. The only book using the Maneuver mechanic was the Tome of Battle. That's it.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I would suggest using Precocious Apprentice or the like to get into JPM. Progress both Warlock and Swordsage!

Actually, it's technically compatible. You are considered to be threatening squares (and presumably wielding it) after casting the invocation, but you would need to use Quicken SLA to follow up with a strike with wording that allows it.

Only 3 a day isn't worth it IMO, but yes I forgot about quicken SLA.

[evyldead]

Sweet so just go swordsage the warlock and take eldritch claw and beast strike<- where can these be found?

[Snowbluff]

Only 3 a day isn't worth it IMO, but yes I forgot about quicken SLA.
I was correcting for technical accuracy. Of course it is a bad idea.

Quicken SLA: EB should be an invocation a Warlock has. Eldritch Glaive is also an Invocation, meaning it's an SLA that qualifies for Quicken.

Sweet so just go swordsage the warlock and take eldritch claw and beast strike<- where can these be found?
Dragon #358 and #355, respectively.

[nedz]

Quicken SLA is in MM BTW

[evyldead]

So going along the "nightwalker" build how would he be built up and feats and starting at Swordsage 2 and warlock 2 what invocations/ maneuvers and stuff should be in there or should it be swordsage 1 monk(or ninja) 1 warlock 2 ?

EDIT: and what would the primary stats be ?

[evyldead]

I am interested on that nightcrawler build how would it be built like main stats feats and equipment and all that funky jazz :D

[Urpriest]

So going along the "nightwalker" build how would he be built up and feats and starting at Swordsage 2 and warlock 2 what invocations/ maneuvers and stuff should be in there or should it be swordsage 1 monk(or ninja) 1 warlock 2 ?

EDIT: and what would the primary stats be ?

For the nightcrawler build (it's named after an X-men character, if you were wondering), I'd start with just a single level of Swordsage, not Swordsage 2. (If your DM is using multiclassing XP penalties, just make sure to be a Human or other race with Favored Class: Any.) That means that after you take 6 levels of Warlock, you can take another level of Swordsage and have an initiator level of 5, allowing you to get 3rd level maneuvers.

You should talk to your DM about the Unarmed Swordsage variant. Technically, it doesn't get Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat, but it really should.

Are you allowed to use Beast Strike and Eldritch Claws? If so, you can take Eldritch Claws as your level 6 feat, and Beast Strike as your level 9 feat. You need to qualify for Teflammar Shadowlord by level 9, so you need Blind-Fight, Dodge, Mobility, and Spring Attack before then, which might mean delaying the other two feats to qualify depending on if you can use Flaws or use magic items to simulate feats (there's an item that grants Mobility for example). Also consider using another feat to substitute for Dodge, like Expeditious Dodge (Races of the Wild) or Desert Wind Dodge (Tome of Battle).

Before you get Eldritch Claws, you're going to be using your maneuvers to make melee attacks and your Eldritch Blast to make ranged attacks, and you won't have a good way of combining them. That's ok, it just makes things a bit wonky at first. You also need good stats. Unless you can find a way to get lots of extra feats, you might not have room for Weapon Finesse and Shadow Blade, so you'll need good Strength and Dexterity, as well as fairly good Wisdom, Intelligence, and Constitution...so basically, everything except Charisma. If you can manage to fit in enough feats to get Weapon Finesse you can put Strength down to 10 or 12, and then your priority will be something like Dex>Con>Wis>Int>Cha.

Maneuverwise, get lots of Shadow Hand for teleporting and general sneakiness. Invocationwise, get buffs for yourself and utility for your party.

[nedz]

Pretty good advice except that Eldritch Claws is an Invocation so that should free up a feat slot.

[Urpriest]

Pretty good advice except that Eldritch Claws is an Invocation so that should free up a feat slot.

No, it's a feat. You're thinking of Eldritch Glaive, which isn't useful on this sort of build.

[evyldead]

Oh wow thank you ^_^ and should I find this unarmed swordsage varient ?

EDIT: quick question to add this is out of the character build but does the wis bonus to AC from Swordsage stack with the Monks wis bonus to AC ?

[Snowbluff]

Oh wow thank you ^_^ and should I find this unarmed swordsage varient ?

Yes. It's a feat. :smalltongue:

[evyldead]

Yes. It's a feat. :smalltongue:

where could it be found ^_^

[nedz]

No, it's a feat. You're thinking of Eldritch Glaive, which isn't useful on this sort of build.

WTF ?

It looks like an invocation, it smells like an invocation, and it displaces Eldritch Blast — but it appears that you are right :smallconfused:

[Snowbluff]

where could it be found ^_^

Page 20. It removes Light Armor Proficiency for the Unarmed Strike ability of the Monk (which gives you Improved Unarmed Strike).

[Urpriest]

EDIT: quick question to add this is out of the character build but does the wis bonus to AC from Swordsage stack with the Monks wis bonus to AC ?

Probably not. RAW, it only applies when you're wearing light armor, while the Monk one only applies when you're wearing no armor. RAI, they are the same class feature and shouldn't stack.

[evyldead]

great stuff guys thanks for the advise i appreciate it

EDIT: is unarmed attack cosidered a light weapon when using weapon finesse ?