Death Knell

[Splendor]

So if I kill a toad with Death Knell before a fight I get: +d8 temporary hit points, +2 Str (untyped) and +1 caster level for 15 rounds? (15 rounds because a toad has 1/4 HD, so 10 minutes/4 = 2.5 rounds)

[sleepyphoenixx]

If you can get it into negative hp without killing it, yes.

[TheMooch]

(15 rounds because a toad has 1/4 HD, so 10 minutes/4 = 2.5 rounds)
I don't think it works that way. Creatures with less than 1HD count as 1HD for the purposes of spells. I might be wrong on that but I'm pretty sure that's the rule.

[Lord Vukodlak]

I don't think it works that way. Creatures with less than 1HD count as 1HD for the purposes of spells. I might be wrong on that but I'm pretty sure that's the rule.

Considering the how cheesy it is to carry around tiny animals for the purposes of fueling death knell, I'd count its fractional HD against the duration. Actually that's not true, I'd attach a minimum of one HD to the death knell spell.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Considering the how cheesy it is to carry around tiny animals for the purposes of fueling death knell, I'd count its fractional HD against the duration. Actually that's not true, I'd attach a minimum of one HD to the death knell spell.

I wouldn't call it cheesy. Inefficient is more fitting i think. You have to spend at least a move action to get the animal out, a standard action to get it into negative hp and another standard action + spell slot to cast Death Knell, which then lasts (at best) ten minutes.

You could also spend 900gp on a gray Bag of Tricks (or several) to fuel the spell if you really want to.

[Deophaun]

I wouldn't call it cheesy. Inefficient is more fitting i think. You have to spend at least a move action to get the animal out, a standard action to get it into negative hp and another standard action + spell slot to cast Death Knell, which then lasts (at best) ten minutes.
With death knell, it's not. With greater consumptive field, however... and you've just set the precedent.

[Lord Vukodlak]

I wouldn't call it cheesy. Inefficient is more fitting i think. You have to spend at least a move action to get the animal out, a standard action to get it into negative hp and another standard action + spell slot to cast Death Knell, which then lasts (at best) ten minutes.

You could also spend 900gp on a gray Bag of Tricks (or several) to fuel the spell if you really want to.

A couple rounds of preparation for a +1 Caster level bonus can be well worth it, especially if you can cast Blasphemy or its lawful/chaotic equivalent. You could also put the animal into negative hit points(but stable) before entering the dungeon/castle etc then using death knell when you deem it appropriate.

Also summoned creatures are killed when dropped to 0hp so they can't be used for death knell

[sleepyphoenixx]

A couple rounds of preparation for a +1 Caster level bonus can be well worth it, especially if you can cast Blasphemy or its lawful/chaotic equivalent. You could also put the animal into negative hit points(but stable) before entering the dungeon/castle etc then using death knell when you deem it appropriate.

Also summoned creatures are killed when dropped to 0hp so they can't be used for death knell

If you want to abuse Blasphemy there are easier ways to pump your CL. Bead of Karma, Ankh of Ascension, Divine Spell Power = +12CL. Throw in Reserves of Strength and an Orange Ioun Stone to get it to +16CL. A single CL that requires quite a bit of preperation is hardly relevant for that. And if one of your players is out to do that it's hardly Death Knell that's the problem.

I'm not sure that Bag of Tricks is actually a summoning effect. It requires SNA to create but the wording of the item suggest that the animals are actually created, not summoned.
As for keeping negative but stable animals around, i'd question how the player actually keeps them alive. He might just end up with a bag full of squirrel carcasses if he tries that. If he goes to the trouble to prepare them right before an encounter he can have his +1 CL imo

[Lord Vukodlak]

If you want to abuse Blasphemy there are easier ways to pump your CL. Bead of Karma, Ankh of Ascension, Divine Spell Power = +12CL. Throw in Reserves of Strength and an Orange Ioun Stone to get it to +16CL. A single CL that requires quite a bit of preperation is hardly relevant for that. And if one of your players is out to do that it's hardly Death Knell that's the problem.

I'm not sure that Bag of Tricks is actually a summoning effect. It requires SNA to create but the wording of the item suggest that the animals are actually created, not summoned.
As for keeping negative but stable animals around, i'd question how the player actually keeps them alive. He might just end up with a bag full of squirrel carcasses if he tries that. If he goes to the trouble to prepare them right before an encounter he can have his +1 CL imo

The creatures from a bag of tricks stays around for 10 minutes or until slain at which point they disappear, sounds like a summoning effect.