This bard is my sworn enemy.

[Lunchbox42]

Hello everyone,

I need some thoughts on how to disable a bard. There is an NPC bard in our game who is a thorn in my side. Can anyone think of creative ways to shut down a bard without killing or otherwise harming him? The bard is epic level. But so are the 3 other members of my adventuring group, so almost nothing is out of reach. Any magical ways to disable bardic music? Maybe I need a cursed item... Any thoughts?

[Invader]

Silence screws them over thoroughly. No Bardic music, (generally) no perform, no spell casting.

[Jack_Simth]

Hello everyone,

I need some thoughts on how to disable a bard. There is an NPC bard in our game who is a thorn in my side. Can anyone think of creative ways to shut down a bard without killing or otherwise harming him? The bard is epic level. But so are the 3 other members of my adventuring group, so almost nothing is out of reach. Any magical ways to disable bardic music? Maybe I need a cursed item... Any thoughts?

Silence (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/silence.htm) on some object in your possession, then get it quietly onto his person (slight of hand). Yes, there are counters (Joyful Noise, Spell Compendium, for one), but it'll really ruin his round.

[Reinkai]

You could get creative with a cursed item, but the bard could likely identify it as cursed. What about something like a compulsion effect to only sing or play certain songs?

"No matter what Ricardo, the legendary bard of Northrend, attempted to play, somehow he always ended up playing Man! I Feel Like A Woman by country bard Shania Twain."

[Vaz]

It is an Su ability. Anti Magic ray.

[Kid Jake]

You could get creative with a cursed item, but the bard could likely identify it as cursed. What about something like a compulsion effect to only sing or play certain songs?

"No matter what Ricardo, the legendary bard of Northrend, attempted to play, somehow he always ended up playing Man! I Feel Like A Woman by country bard Shania Twain."


Heh, reminds me of the only time I ever played a bard. No matter how I tried to explain what the tune I was playing would sound like; I always ended up describing the Sanford and Son theme. That's when I realized I'm probably tone deaf.

[TheDarkSaint]

Fight fire with fire. Hire your own Bard to go around and sing dirty limericks about the bard you hate. Heck, hire 4 or 5 of them and ruin his reputation. He won't be welcome anywhere.

[Lord Vukodlak]

I know how you feel in this one campaign my Evil Cleric's nemesis is a Bard I could actually crush him like a bug rather easily in a direct confrontation.

The problem is The Bard is my character's brother-in-law and while he has no qualms about screwing me over. My retaliations must be tempered...

[Slipperychicken]

Looks like you'll want to land Silence (all Bard spells require performance components and they can't use Silent spell).

AMF locks down everything but Epic Spells (I doubt you're using Epic Spellcasting rules). Lock him in an AMF with your best grappler.

Grappling can help, if you have a good grappler. All the better if you can enlarge him for big size bonuses, and ideally have both AMF and Silence emanating from his person. He shouldn't last long without his precious magic.

Stand by with readied actions to interrupt spellcasting.

Throw down a Dust of Choking and Sneezing (or whatever it's called) if you'd like.

If you can, grab one of those soul-stealing swords which store the souls of people they kill. If you can destroy the soul, he's never coming back. Ever.

After killing him, I recommend doing something barbaric and profane like urinating on his remains as a victory celebration.

But ultimately, if he's using DM fiat to troll you, just quit. Seriously, it's not worth it.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Intensified Shivering Touch, 36 Dex damage, no save.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Intensified Shivering Touch, 36 Dex damage, no save.

Shivering Touch is one of the most breakable spells in all of D&D.

[Lunchbox42]

Ha! Thanks everyone, these are brilliant ideas. This bard won't be singing for much longer.

[RedF0x11]

As a temporary measure you could cut out his tongue, which should shut him right down with casting, and if you want to be very mean you can also cut his hands off, which renders him fully unable to use any of his class abilities (casting or bardic music) until somebody casts regeneration on him

[Big Fau]

Out of curiosity, why do you want to stop him from using Bardic Music? Is he using Fascinate on you and other party members instead of Inspire Courage?

[Lunchbox42]

Out of curiosity, why do you want to stop him from using Bardic Music? Is he using Fascinate on you and other party members instead of Inspire Courage?

Well its a long story. But our group is trying to reclaim an abandoned town as our own. But every day at dusk the bard plays music that makes everyone hallucinate and cause chaos. Which makes trying to repopulate the town impossible. Even diplomacy checks near 50 can't persuade him to leave. And for story reasons. We don't want to just kill him

[ArcturusV]

Well, the easy solution would be to find what he does and stop it. He plays a lute? Go smash his lute. That is probably easier than trying to get some Persisted Silence spell on him, or locking him in a soundproofed prison cell, etc.

But a Bard that's set up to screw with people's minds, even without DM homebrew powers, is hard to stop from screwing with someone's mind as long as he can keep out of direct confrontation with you. And it sounds like for some reason he is able to keep out of a direct confrontation.

[morkendi]

Polymorph into whisper gnomes and stand beside him when he starts.. use their silence. Just stand their and smile.

[Mr Adventurer]

Timestop, dimensional anchor, solid forcecage. Drape a cloth over the cage. Cast silence on the cloth.

[PlusSixPelican]

Silence, then knock 'em out, steal their kidneys and other organs of black market value, cremate, and spread the ashes in two different rivers.

There's no kill like thorough.

[Segev]

Every night, when he goes to try to sleep, summon monsters to annoy him and prevent him from doing so. Task bind a fiend or angel to never let him sleep on any night after which he has done this music-playing. Acquire a Helm of Opposite Alignment to put on his head - it will make him Lawful, and he'll lose his Bardic Music capabilities. Use Bestow Curse to ensure he cannot find any musical instrument ever again. Hit him with Feeblemind while he's performing. Hire another bard of the same level to just countersong him. Dominate him. Create an Ice Assassin of him that you order to countersong him, and only kill him if he successfully defeats the Ice Assassin's countersong. Bestow Curse him such that he destroys any instrument he attempts to play with the first note played. Use mind-protecting magics to prevent anybody from hallucinating. Kill him and use an Epic Resurection spell to bring him back with the caveat that, if he ever plays music like that again, he dies once more.

[Lunchbox42]

I like the idea of having an anti magic field that covers the town, that seems unlikely. But maybe easier than trapping an epic level bard. There are a lot of good ideas here though. We're playing tonight, we'll see how it goes

Segey has some of the best ideas yet. Got my coworker wondering why I'm laughing.

[Krobar]

Curse him so that every time he tries to sing, he instead yells "I'M A STUPID IDIOT! I'M A STUPID IDIOT! I'M A STUPID IDIOT!" Or think of some other entertainingly humiliating thing you might want him to yell about himself.

I would use a Wish to do it, though.

[Averis Vol]

He's a bard; if you want to win you need to out epic him in the arena of the gods with a power metal showdown.

that's the only way to truly destroy a bard.

[avr]

Destroying or stealing his musical instrument has the problem that Summon Instrument is a low level bard spell, even if he doesn't have an extradimensional space with 5 flutes, 3 harps, a xylophone and an accordion. Also doesn't work if he has perform (sing) or perform (dance).

We've had a few earthquakes near where I live recently. Nothing like them for breaking peoples concentration. Kind of destructive to the town of course.

Convince the bard that there's a chance to shine in front of the king/empress/gods or whatever if only he leaves for the court now.

Capture the bard, knock him out, move him to the Shadow plane or some other place which looks a lot like the town and convince him that he hasn't moved.

Or just use Trap the Soul or similar and let him out when the adventure's over.

[Slipperychicken]

We don't want to just kill him

You could use Eternity of Torture (just get your Cleric to cast Domain Swap so he can prepare it). That sends a message, and keeps him out of the game. It's cheaper than Temporal Stasis.

[Valanarch]

Just curious, why is this bard your sworn enemy?

[Lord Vukodlak]

Just curious, why is this bard your sworn enemy?

He already answered that (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15847353&postcount=15).

Well its a long story. But our group is trying to reclaim an abandoned town as our own. But every day at dusk the bard plays music that makes everyone hallucinate and cause chaos. Which makes trying to repopulate the town impossible. Even diplomacy checks near 50 can't persuade him to leave. And for story reasons. We don't want to just kill him

[Deophaun]

Destroying or stealing his musical instrument has the problem that Summon Instrument is a low level bard spell, even if he doesn't have an extradimensional space with 5 flutes, 3 harps, a xylophone and an accordion. Also doesn't work if he has perform (sing) or perform (dance).
Well, since bards can no longer summon pipe organs with it, not sure how many bards will have used up one of their highly limited spells known on that.

But that aside, your general point stands. What instrument is used only matters for the purposes of countersong, fascinate, or suggestion (assuming core only: PrCs are a different beast). Any other bardic music abilities don't give a flying fig about what perform skill you use, only that you have some perform skill somewhere that has X ranks.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Get an excuse to have him locked up for a day, and put him in a magically silent cell to keep him from escaping. Enchant an egg of a tapeworm or similar to permanently emanate a Silence effect and slip it into his food, he won't notice its silence effect in his cell. He'll be stuck with it until he can get rid of the parasite, which would be extremely difficult if he has a permanent 20-ft. area of silence around him.


He's a bard; if you want to win you need to out epic him in the arena of the gods with a power metal showdown.

that's the only way to truly destroy a bard.
Reminds me of this...
http://www.mysteriousexhortations.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Maki.jpg
From the Penny Arcade show Strip Search (http://penny-arcade.com/strip-search).

[Slipperychicken]

Reminds me of this...
http://www.mysteriousexhortations.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Maki.jpg
From the Penny Arcade show Strip Search (http://penny-arcade.com/strip-search).

This is the only proper way to defeat sirens.


Get an excuse to have him locked up for a day, and put him in a magically silent cell to keep him from escaping. Enchant an egg of a tapeworm or similar to permanently emanate a Silence effect and slip it into his food, he won't notice its silence effect in his cell. He'll be stuck with it until he can get rid of the parasite, which would be extremely difficult if he has a permanent 20-ft. area of silence around him.


If you're going to go that far, you might as well just keep him in a nonlethal coma (deal nonlethal damage faster than he can recover it so he's KO'd forever) and slip a Ring of Sustenance on his finger.

Or just turn him into a statue via Flesh to Stone or similar.

[Blightedmarsh]

Rend the entire town deaf. The bard is likely to push off for a more appreciative audience in short order

[Mr Adventurer]

This is the only proper way to defeat sirens.



If you're going to go that far, you might as well just keep him in a nonlethal coma (deal nonlethal damage faster than he can recover it so he's KO'd forever) and slip a Ring of Sustenance on his finger.

Or just turn him into a statue via Flesh to Stone or similar.
Use The Elminster Solution on him: magic jar into a half ogre reaping mauler, cast anti magic field, have the reaping mauler grapple him unconscious. Animate a zombie and give it a Huge sap. Strip the bard naked and put a ring of sustenance and an amulet of adaptation on him. Drop the bard into a portable hole. Put the zombie in there and command it to constantly pummel him with
the sap.

Then drop a bag of holding into the portable hole.

[Segev]

Get one of those water tanks that escape artists hang upside-down in wearing straight jackets. Fill it with Quintessence. Manifest Time Hop on the bard when he starts performing, and push the vat into his space. When he reappears, he's suspended in time. Wheel it out of town and let him out the next morning.

[angry_bear]

Geas him into becoming lawful. Congratulations, your sworn enemy is now a grossly under powered wannabe rogue.

[Slipperychicken]

Geas him into becoming lawful. Congratulations, your sworn enemy is now a grossly under powered wannabe rogue.

*Ahem* effin character minimums


Ex-Bards
A bard who becomes lawful in alignment cannot progress in levels as a bard, though he retains all his bard abilities.

[Karoht]

Simple solutions are often best.
Distribute Ear Plugs to everyone in town. If his performance is auditory they no longer hear it. Tell them not to watch, in the event he choses to Dance instead.

Ghost Sound is a Level-0 spell. It lasts for a round per level. It makes one heck of a racket. Spam the area with lots of those. In the event the ear plugs don't work, turn it up to 11 with as much Ghost Sound as you can cover the town in. This is like your neighbors saying "stupid kids and their loud music" and turning up their stereo instead.
As for the sound itself, maybe thundering applause? Maybe that's all he's been waiting for?
If not, Dubstep.

Silence can be cast onto objects. Cast Silence onto some arrows, shoot them into the Bard's general area. Then shoot one near wher the Bard is standing just before your party charges him (held actions are a wise move). Have one person grapple him. Nearly all Bard spells have a verbal component (can't cast in silence, Bards can't use Silent Spell), chances are good that he doesn't have Still Spell. In the even the Bard manages to Fly away, take one of those Silence arrows out of the ground and fly after him. Stones work too.

Also, having ear plugs of your own helps. Most of the compulsion effects are language dependant, if you can't hear properly due to ear plugs you can't hear his commands, so even if the spell beats your saves (I think you get bonuses from the Ear Plugs as well), you'll probably be fine. Protection from Chaos should also help with those saves.

[Slipperychicken]

Distribute Ear Plugs to everyone in town.

IIRC, earplugs only give a +5 on saves against auditory stuff, not full-on immunity.

[Karoht]

IIRC, earplugs only give a +5 on saves against auditory stuff, not full-on immunity.Better than +0
And earplugs are cheap and easy to distribute.
Everyone in town has candles.
Light candle, pour some hot wax into cold water, pick it up, roll it in ones hands, stuff into ears.
For next to no cost, worth every penny.

Also, notable...

Made of waxed cotton or cork, earplugs give you a +2 circumstance bonus on saves against effects that require hearing, but also cause a –5 penalty on hearing-based Perception checks.
Specifically, it makes you less likely to hear things. Like the Bard shouting any kind of commands, song lyrics, etc. Unless he's got a ventriloquism pa system built into every house, with the ear plugs in the penalty to even hear the Bard is pretty high.

Now if he's rocking some kind of homebrew spell to get his volume up that high that people hear him from one side of the town to the other, through walls, with the earplugs in, that is pretty amazing.

http://www.pathfindersrd.com/skills/perception
The list of modifiers is notable.

[Raendyn]

"No matter what Ricardo, the legendary bard of Northrend, attempted to play, somehow he always ended up playing Man! I Feel Like A Woman by country bard Shania Twain."


Curse him so that every time he tries to sing, he instead yells "I'M A STUPID IDIOT! I'M A STUPID IDIOT! I'M A STUPID IDIOT!" Or think of some other entertainingly humiliating thing you might want him to yell about himself.

I would use a Wish to do it, though.


these reminded me of the catch phrace I forced party members to yell out whenever they wanted their charms retrained in Exalted.
"I'm your little b1tch"
Sometimes they had to speak it in front of very reputable NpC's and gods....

[Tiki Snakes]

Hmm. It's hard to argue against simply hiding where he goes to perform and then sapping him into oblivion.

After this, he's your prisoner and it simply becomes a choice of what to do with him. If diplomacy is out, there are plenty of other options depending on your values and limits as a party.