OOTS #912 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Dumbledore lives]

Great comic, makes so much sense for Tarquin's character.

[Teucros]

As always, Tarquin is inimitable :smallbiggrin:.

[DaggerPen]

"I hope you at least gained a level out of this."

Oh my god

That's amazing

Though at the same time, there's a part of me that's sitting here going "All that pain and suffering, Durkon's vampirization - it was all because Tarquin wanted to do the same thing as the Order?" :smallmad:

Still, I laughed pretty heartily at this comic. Very nice.

[WindStruck]

Of course. All Tarquin cared about was the "race". LOL :smallbiggrin:

[RMS Oceanic]

Though at the same time, there's a part of me that's sitting here going "All that pain and suffering, Durkon's vampirization - it was all because Tarquin wanted to do the same thing as the Order?" :smallmad:

I agree. That said, this feels classic Tarquin: The utter pragmatist. And for that reason I like this comic.

I wonder what's going to happen to Nale?

[Macros]

... well.

So, everybody's going home, now ? Or perhaps there's still the issue of "where's my vampire cleric who happens to be my best friend?" to adress. It could still turn ugly.

[factotum]

Was actually reading the forums when I saw the discussion thread for a new comic was posted--think that's the first time that's happened for me!

As for the strip, Tarquin shows himself to be far more intelligent than Nale once again. Nale's plan for the gates can be summed up as:

1) Claim a gate
2) ???
3) Profit!

That ??? is the really complicated part that he really doesn't have a clue about.

There's still the elephant in the room of what Tarquin does when he finds out Nale killed Malack, of course (assuming he doesn't already know)...

[Sabeki]

Wow, Tarquin is playing both sides again! What a genius.
I personally though that he was going to use the portal for his own ends.

[Baron Pineapple]

Be still my beating heart... Tarquin is the greatest character to grace the pages of this strip!

I really can't wait of course to see what he says (to Nale or as an aside), once Elan and Haley go back down to rejoin Roy. Is he as laissez-faire about the gates as he seems?

Or is there a plan within plans? Is he going to nudge Nale in a direction to parallel his brother? Or will he put his cards all on the table now the Nale had it out with Malack?

I can't wait to see!

[karkus]

Repeatedly pressing F5 really paid off for me :smallbiggrin:

[DaggerPen]

I agree. That said, this feels classic Tarquin: The utter pragmatist. And for that reason I like this comic.

Oh, I like it too. But I think I can like it while also being both impressed by and angry with Tarquin. :smalltongue:

[Torrasque]

haw, good ol' Tarquin. Almost makes me wish i had voted for him over V.

[Dracon1us]

wow
great way to start my work day!

Tarquin is so going to show up "at the last moment to" at the last gate, leaving the hero to bleed etc.

another brilliant reflection about power
"Power I can't access is no power at all"

I can totally appreciate the logic behind Tarquin: first of all, a little race to gain informations on the whole situation, on the gate, on the defense, on his opponents on the leadership skills of his son...then move in with the army

[Michaeler]

It's perfect.

Also, I checked this strip right as I'm heading out to a job interview. If I get it I'll assume that Tarquin planned that as well.

[Lord Raziere]

I think Tarquin has ticked off both Nale AND Elan at the same time.

I mean look! Elan's stern look, Nale's outburst…

Tarquin's own smugness showing at revealing this whole plan was completely pointless.

yeah.

this won't end well for him.

I think he has finally sealed his fate. right there. right at that last panel.

that is his downfall.

[Anarion]

Tarquin is so reasonable. I love it! :smallbiggrin:

I'm really hoping that the next strip or two has a big reveal though. Elan has been hinting at a plan for dealing with his Dad for a while now and we've heard almost nothing about it. And here, surrounded by an army of soldiers in a situation that he could otherwise walk out of with no trouble at all, why it's the perfect time to make Tarquin angry at him.

[MoonCat]

Oh, Tarquin. You should take "just as planned" as your catchphrase.

[Connington]

Anyone want to bet that Tarquin's help won't come with hidden strings attached? Affably Evil is still definitely Evil.

[martinkou]

I hope Tarquin isn't killed off by Nale in some freak, well planned, "accident" in the next strip..

[Mooplaid]

Tarquin has a point, but I think it'd be neat to see him go toe-to-toe with Xykon. :smallsmile:

[nolron]

I completely believe it was his plan all along. Anyone who suggests otherwise is clearly a traitor and should be thrown in the arena.

[Hogwarts9876]

I think Tarquin has ticked off both Nale AND Elan at the same time.

I mean look! Elan's stern look, Nale's outburst…

Tarquin's own smugness showing at revealing this whole plan was completely pointless.

yeah.

this won't end well for him.

I think he has finally sealed his fate. right there. right at that last panel.

that is his downfall.

This would be PERFECT. I mean, I do love Tarquin, but this would be a brilliant end.

[Dracon1us]

It's perfect.

Also, I checked this strip right as I'm heading out to a job interview. If I get it I'll assume that Tarquin planned that as well.

good luck with that!

[Lathund]

Gotta love Tarquin. And the worst part is: he's probably right.

[RMS Oceanic]

I hope Tarquin isn't killed off by Nale in some freak, well planned, "accident" in the next strip..

I think there's a difference between getting the jump on a vampire who is accustomed to waiting before he strikes and a man who could probably write a dissertation on the Starscream and how best to counter it.

The question now is: Will the order accept his help? And also, will Elan try to put his plan into action, or wait until later?

[Chessgeek]

Tarquin. You either love him or you hate him. He's really one of the most interesting characters in the story. Simply brilliant.

[shamgar001]

"Power that I can't access to no power at all." Very true.

As an aside, we need updated OotS smilies.

[Sith_Happens]

Best. Punch line. Ever.

[thereaper]

Wow, I was right. Destroying it was Tarquin's plan.

[Porthos]

Though at the same time, there's a part of me that's sitting here going "All that pain and suffering, Durkon's vampirization - it was all because Tarquin wanted to do the same thing as the Order?" :smallmad:

Yeah. But I can't help but think there's another shoe to drop here.

I mean, this IS Tarquin, after all. :smallamused:



"Power that I can't access to no power at all." Very true.

As an aside, we need updated OotS smilies.

There's a thread with a bunch of fan made ones. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5294429) :smallsmile:

[DaggerPen]

Yeah. But I can't help but think there's another shoe to drop here.

I mean, this IS Tarquin, after all. :smallamused:

You're probably right. I mean, if all Tarquin wanted was access to the Gate and maybe the ability to study it for a while, he could have just offered his help to the Order more directly. He's got to have something else up his sleeve, and is now just reverting back to affability now that either his goal has been accomplished or there's no need for direct conflict right now.

[Dr. Murgunstrum]

But what becomes of Nale? What becomes of Nale?

[PureIrony]

Now I'm wondering: remember when Malack got angry at Tarquin for "indulging his paternal curiosities" instead of focusing on the mission? And now it turns out the entire point of all this was to race against his son? Remember that panel of contemplation he had right before answering Malack?

I'm starting to think that maybe Tarquin didn't want Malack around by the end of the mission.

[Stitch531]

I just can't believe that after going to all the trouble to go back to the city, get his army & psion together, and gate them out to the desert, Tarquin is just going to walk away now. He still has something up his sleeve, and it will be interesting to see what it is.

Another tidbit -- while here Tarquin calls his son a big shot hero, I noticed that in the last strip he asks Roy to send Elan up to him. Am I correct in thinking this is the first time that Tarquin seems to realize that his son isn't the leader of the group?

After seeing all of these strips with Tarquin as cool as can be, I have to wonder just how terrifying he'd be if he actually got worked up about something.

[Kawaii Soldier]

YAY! Great comic! What's Elan gonna do? Save the world if it means helping his dad? I'm excited to see what happens next!

[JessmanCA]

Man, V has been gone a long time. I wonder what the purpose of still keeping him is?

[Berserk Knight]

Oh, that Tarquin!

Too many "moving parts" in Nales plans huh?
More like too many holes.
...Then again, the end result IS a massive hole (in the fabric of space) :smallamused:

[Mike Havran]

Utterly brilliant. Tarquin goes out on a field trip, gets into some refreshing and not too dangerous real combat, judges both his sons, then gets out before things get risky, returns with all the fanfare only to declare that the threat to his empires was taken care of and he is successful once again.

Also, Nale :smalltongue:

[Dracon1us]

Now I'm wondering: remember when Malack got angry at Tarquin for "indulging his paternal curiosities" instead of focusing on the mission? And now it turns out the entire point of all this was to race against his son? Remember that panel of contemplation he had right before answering Malack?

I'm starting to think that maybe Tarquin didn't want Malack around by the end of the mission.

mmm
maybe he needed a cleric for that half of the ritual...

[pjie2]

Yeah. But I can't help but think there's another shoe to drop here.

I mean, this IS Tarquin, after all. :smallamused:
I think Tarquin offs Nale. This was a contest between his sons for inheritance, and Elan won. No point in leaving the loser around to plot - he might be competent later on, and it's too dangerous to wait and see. Yeah, so Elan's a good guy now - Tarquin will have a plan for that.

[Driderman]

I very rarely comment on these threads, but this was a really brilliant strip.

Also, this sounds just about right:


Utterly brilliant. Tarquin goes out on a field trip, gets into some refreshing and not too dangerous real combat, judges both his sons, then gets out before things get risky, returns with all the fanfare only to declare that the threat to his empires was taken care of and he is successful once again.
:

[Hardcore]

Tarquin is Awesome.

[Filippo]

My guess is Tarquin knows something about what is behind the gates that is different from what we know, he wants the heroes to go to the next gate, so he can freely sends some troops to scout the area (as they probably die horribly, as narrative rules command)

[Esclados]

I'm wondering what Tarquin thinks of Malack's destruction now, too.

While they seemed like best pals, Tarquin is very good at presenting faces--downright professional, in fact. Tarquin did know about Malack's plan to use their tyrannical oligarchies to sacrifice loads of people to Nergal... Maybe he didn't want that to be his legacy, despite promises of a huge statue.

[Vemynal]

This stripe defines why Tarquin as one of my favorite characters ^_^

[Hardcore]

I bet Tarquin have a jar somewhere containing some of Malacks toenail klippings for that resurection.

[Adeptus]

Thank you for putting a (momentary) stop in the crazy fan speculations about Tarquin trying to murder the Order in a fit of rage, and such nonesense Giant.

Nice calm assessment from the genre savvy villain-daddy :)

[Maethirion]

Heh. This has actually made my day. Brilliant. And so... so Tarquin

[faustin]

Tarquin is a Chessmaster. As such, he doesn´t have a master plans which always come together; such feat is near impossible for a mortal to pull. Instead, he has several plans running at a time, and adapt them to the circunstances beyond his control just like a captain adapts his ship to the weather and waves, until he chose the one who has more neat chances to success.

[Ridureyu]

So what happens when Elan murders Tarquin with a backstab once they're alone (or a certain somebody returns from another plane and level-drains him to 0), dyes his hair, puts on the helmet, and leads the army against the Order of the Stick?

[Amarsir]

You know, whenever I think Tarquin can't get more awesome...

It never really made any sense that he'd get in on the gate just based on Nale's say-so. But the idea of going along for fun and to learn about it seems like him to a tee. So this is very reassuring. (I do however anticipate the Malack backlash.)

[phobiandarkmoon]

Man, V has been gone a long time. I wonder what the purpose of still keeping him is?

They get his soul for twenty-odd minutes - there might not be any further point than ensuring the destruction of the gate

[ravenmeister]

I bet Tarquin have a jar somewhere containing some of Malacks toenail klippings for that resurection.

Can vampires be ressurrected? I mean they are dead already when they are killed.

[RMS Oceanic]

So what happens when Elan murders Tarquin with a backstab once they're alone (or a certain somebody returns from another plane and level-drains him to 0), dyes his hair, puts on the helmet, and leads the army against the Order of the Stick?

Xykon repents and becomes a Paladin, resurrecting Miko and allowing her to truly gain atonement while they fight crime, and then Right Eye ascends to godhood as a new option for Goblinoid races and teaches them how to build a society.

In other words, I am quite confident that Tarquin is fully aware of the backstabbing subordinate trope and will counter any such move by Nale or his allies.

[Ridureyu]

Just like how O-Chul could never have gotten the drop on Xykon or Redcloak, amirite?

[RMS Oceanic]

Just like how O-Chul could never have gotten the drop on Xykon or Redcloak, amirite?

Did anyone ever claim that?

Also, to borrow from Elan's plotsense, Nale being the one to kill Tarquin is too anticlimactic, especially when Elan has a plan waiting in the wings.

[Iamyourking]

Can vampires be ressurrected? I mean they are dead already when they are killed.

Not by any readily available means. Resurrection would bring him back as he was before he became a vampire, which Malack steadfastly refused, the only advantage True Resurrection would have is that Tarquin wouldn't have to scrounge up his ashes, and Wish specifically duplicates Resurrection. Miracle might be able to do it, but it would require Tarquin to have access to a cleric as powerful as Redcloak whose god wouldn't mind bringing back a very powerful vampire, and it is possible that Malack already invented a spell that could do it; as combat at that level is extremely lethal, just mitigated by the ease with which dead people can be brought back. However, Malack couldn't even cast Resurrection and this would almost certainly be an 8 or even a 9. Also, an epic level spell using a combination of the Life and Animate Dead seeds might be able to do it; but that's more Xykon's league than Team Tarquin's and again is not guaranteed to work.

[Miraqariftsky]

Ha-HAH! Beautifully done, sir Giant.

[TheTeaMustFlow]

Tarquin has boats and flying things. My bet is, while everyone else runs off to Kraagor's Gate, he explores this rift at his leisure.:smallamused:

[Ridureyu]

Did anyone ever claim that?

Also, to borrow from Elan's plotsense, Nale being the one to kill Tarquin is too anticlimactic, especially when Elan has a plan waiting in the wings.

It's not anticlimactic at all. It actually fits with a lot of the unexpected turns that this story has taken.

Besides, Sabine should be due back to this realm eventually. What if she comes back just in time to level-drain dear old dad? Remember, Tarquin can't win absolutely everything all the time. He's going to fall before the end of the strip, we all know that - possibly sooner, possibly later. But it might be setting up now.

[luc258]

I'm still wondering what Elan's plan was. He certainly has not foreseen him standing on the dramatic edge of a crater next to his father the tyrannical overlord with his father's army as spectators.
Or has he? Dun dun dunnnn

Also, V's timeout should be over by now, shouldn't it?

[Lordchoculla]

New comic is up.

LOL ... very L! Bloody brilliant, thanks!

:smallsmile:

[Anterean]

Can vampires be ressurrected? I mean they are dead already when they are killed.

As some people have already explained resurrecting a vampire will bring them back as the mortal they where before they had their blood drained.
Since Malark had been a vampire for over 200 years this presents some problems with locating a very high level cleric.

The Ghostwalker campaign* did have a "Raise Ghost" spell though, which allowed you to restore destroyed ghosts, something similar might be concocted for vampires

*) It is worth noting that ghosts are a bit different from core in this campaign setting, for example they outsiders rather than undead

[blueblade]

Giant, once again, your Fanboy Speculation Deflector Dish is working perfectly...

Also.... JUST AS PLANNED!!

[Newwby]

Tarquin reinforcing his position as my favourite character. I frequently have to remind myself that he is up to nefarious things else I'd be rooting for him over the Order. What a classy guy.

[Shular]

It's not anticlimactic at all. It actually fits with a lot of the unexpected turns that this story has taken.

Besides, Sabine should be due back to this realm eventually. What if she comes back just in time to level-drain dear old dad? Remember, Tarquin can't win absolutely everything all the time. He's going to fall before the end of the strip, we all know that - possibly sooner, possibly later. But it might be setting up now.

No no! Following the Star Wars analogy to its logical conclusion, Tarquin's death has to be heroic. I'm guessing Xykon will be torturing Elan, and Tarquin will hurl Xykon into a rift (a la Roy), but be fatally wounded in the process. (Of course, this won't happen, but if it did, you know Tarquin would die with a smile on his face, pleased at how things went.)

[Henry the 57th]

Tarquin, you magnificent bastard.

It's a shame he's so evil, I really like the his dramatic sense.

[Guy Incognito]

Did anyone ever claim that?

Also, to borrow from Elan's plotsense, Nale being the one to kill Tarquin is too anticlimactic, especially when Elan has a plan waiting in the wings.

Well, yes, but this is also what Tarquin would least expect. He plays his cards under the assumption that every story is clockwork and dramatic. He doesn't even really consider the possibility that he could die a boring or anticlimactic death.

[Lemarc]

Tarquin has a point, but I think it'd be neat to see him go toe-to-toe with Xykon. :smallsmile:

As a secondary villain, his narrative role in that case would be to get humiliated and killed to emphasise how powerful Xykon is before the final confrontation with the heroes.

[RMS Oceanic]

Well, yes, but this is also what Tarquin would least expect. He plays his cards under the assumption that every story is clockwork and dramatic. He doesn't even really consider the possibility that he could die a boring or anticlimactic death.

True, but if that is to be his end, I see Elan doing it rather than Nale. Just because it's anticlimactic for Tarquin doesn't mean it would be for us.

[Titanium Dragon]

Honestly the real question is whether Tarquin is just going to eliminate Nale at this point, or is going to hold him captive to get his succubus companion to cop to what the plan really is. Honestly I'm not sure how much longer they're going to be relevant for - we're down to the last gate, and it seems at least reasonably plausible that means we're two or three arcs off from the end of the comic (one for the final gate, one for the other world, one for actually dealing with whatever the real problem is).

Of course goodness knows, really. Giant may have further plans than that.

As for why he is here - if he sends the order on their way to the final gate, he gets to study the rift without them there to interfere.

[Finn Solomon]

There's no way Tarquin's telling the truth here, once he sends the Order on their merry way, rested and rearmed, he'll have the time to explore the Rift at his leisure.

Look at it this way, sure Tarquin believes that Elan and his team will win, that's how the story should go after all. But a brilliant dictator of his caliber will not risk it all on an idiot bard and his rag tag friends.

Once the Order leaves, Tarquin will figure out a way to use the Rift for his own nefarious means, most likely as a last ditch escape hatch.

[Henry the 57th]

True, but if that is to be his end, I see Elan doing it rather than Nale. Just because it's anticlimactic for Tarquin doesn't mean it would be for us.

Being killed by his heroic son (especially in some duel or personal confrontation) is exactly what Tarquin wants, and he would consider it plenty climactic. Being shanked in a dark room because he fatally underestimated Nale and then having his legacy ruined by the latter's poor leadership would be suitably anticlimactic.

[Clyner]

I love Tarquin so much right now :smallbiggrin:

[RMS Oceanic]

Being killed by his heroic son (especially in some duel or personal confrontation) is exactly what Tarquin wants, and he would consider it plenty climactic. Being shanked in a dark room because he fatally underestimated Nale and then having his legacy ruined by the latter's poor leadership would be suitably anticlimactic.

This is the bit he wants, because that's the memorable one. Elan can still arrange his defeat, but he doesn't have to be the one to deliver the blow.

[Felhammer]

Tarquin is made of so much win! :smallbiggrin:

I wonder if Nale will freak out and do something stupid...

[Kurald Galain]

I was just thinking how Tarquin is LAWFUL evil whereas Nale is lawful EVIL.

[Sweet_Goddess]

Being killed by his heroic son (especially in some duel or personal confrontation) is exactly what Tarquin wants, and he would consider it plenty climactic. Being shanked in a dark room because he fatally underestimated Nale and then having his legacy ruined by the latter's poor leadership would be suitably anticlimactic.

There is a fatal flaw in the logic of this. The flaw is Nale loses even in success, so even if he succeeded in offing Tarquin, which would be an epic victory, then his loss would have to be equally epic, so that would mean that he'd defeat Tarquin, and then the deadman spell would trigger, sending Nale and Sabine directly in front of Xykon, and Xykon would cast Epic Disintbiteration, a spell so powerful that Nale would be wiped from existence, and Sabine would become nothing more then Xykon's familiar, enslaved to him for all eternity.

So therefore, Nale will not defeat Tarquin, because it would be the end for Nale.

What is far more likely is that Thog will show up on rocket skates, rescue Nale, and flee. Meanwhile, Malack will cast a sending and report that the scroll of Vampire Revitalization worked, but he will need a week to recreate his staff and add some new precautions to prevent such events from happening again.

[RMS Oceanic]

I was just thinking how Tarquin is LAWFUL evil whereas Nale is lawful EVIL.

Kinda like Eugene's LAWFUL good to Roy's lawful GOOD.

[Kuroshima]

So soon? not that I'm complaining. In fact, I really hope that we start getting comics at this pace ;) (no, I don't expect OOTS to become a 3 to 4 a week webcomic. I would love it, but I don't expect it)

Again Tarquin shows why he's DA MAN. He has more contingency plans than David Xanatos.

Wild thought, Tarquin wants to be remembered, to be legendary. Maybe it's in a 4th wall breaking way (meaning that we the readers are who he wants to remember him)? If so, he's succeeding.

[GalenDev]

I love Tarquin. I know I shouldn't, he's a horrible horrible person... but he's just so awesome! I want to take a masterclass in planning with this guy. Love him or hate him, getting a line on how that man operates would be awesome for anyone's careers.

[skaddix]

The Psion can gate the team to the Dwarven Lands after Tarquin gives them some resources. Meanwhile Tarquin and Co can study the rift and maybe swoop in on the last Gate. Also I am surprised Nale knows so much about the Ritual.

[Snowfire]

And so Tarquin continues his frankly meteoric rise towards the highest ranks of OotS Magnificant Bastard.

This comic was really, really good and I think showed very well exactly the sort of character Tarquin has become. In regards to Malack...considering that the Giant has pretty much unilaterally stated "He's dead." I don't really see him coming back.

Even if it was possible, it would be verging into territory that we haven't seen that often in these storylines - that being active use of expanded rules. Yes, you could argue that we got that with Mass Death Ward, but that's already a spell.

I do, however, have something that I'm rather curious about. We know that the ritual for the Gates was made for an arcane and divine caster. Anyone have any ideas of how a Psion could interact with that? A darn powerful Psion too. I suspect this has already been debated to death on the previous threads, but I'm still curious.

[Tass]

Prediction:

There has been a lot of disappointment that the order does not seem to be heading into the rift. They probably won't, but maybe Tarquin will.

Tarquin is curious. He is not afraid to sacrifice a few mooks. When the order is on its way, he will investigate the rift. Discover that there is literally a world of possibilities in there. And this will lead to him crashing with the story line again at the last gate in some spectacular way.

[Kish]

So what happens when Elan murders Tarquin with a backstab once they're alone (or a certain somebody returns from another plane and level-drains him to 0), dyes his hair, puts on the helmet, and leads the army against the Order of the Stick?
Why would Elan turn against the Order of the Stick?

I was just thinking how Tarquin is LAWFUL evil whereas Nale is lawful EVIL.
Just like Xykon is CHAOTIC evil. Oh wait.

[Welf]

I don't know if it has been pointed out yet, but I think Tarquin made a big strategic mistake. He lost one of his most powerful allies, and gained nothing. And if he never planed to take over the gate, the deaths of Malak and Durkon were pointless. They could have compromised by destroying the gate and fighting Xykon.

[JoseB]

Tremendous, tremendous Tarquin... I can't help but admire him with a kind of horrified awe -- He is a hideous individual, but oh gods the panache...

So I guess that the next step will be to get to the Dwarven lands pronto... And that means, possibly, having Laurin "gate" them there (or whatever her spell was).

This, combined with the fact that Xykon is already there (and I guess he won't have lost time before exercising nastiness)... Well, when Durkon gets there he will certainly have come back accompanied of "death and destruction" (although the aforementioned death and destruction would have arrived a little bit before him).

This is interesting, and I can't help but think that this is moving towards a MASSIVE confrontation between EVERY interested party right at the location of the last gate.

...

Poor Dwarven Lands, we hardly knew ye :P

[Diadem]

Awesome. Absolutely awesome.

I althought it it was a bit out of character for Tarquin to go after the gate like he did. He didn't seem the kind of guy who would go for something like that, for precisely all the reasons he gives in this comic.

So very nice to see that it wasn't his plan all along.

Poor Elan, getting played like a puppet, and what can he do about it? He can hardly refuse to save the world. Nor can he really afford to refuse his father's aid.

[Cynric]

Tarquin, you magnificent bastard!

Perhaps Tarquin is unconcerned about Malack's death because the old, stick-in-the-mud cleric was becoming a hindrance, rather than a help. That's not to say that Nale's going to get away with his death without repercussions.

However I suspect that Tarquin is going to allow Nale to leave as well. The dramatic tension that he will provide will only go to further the OotS' success.

[sam79]

Great strip. I wonder how many of Tarquin's other 'plans' are things he pretended he thought of after the fact?

'Making the World Safe for Tyrannical Oligarchy'; now that's a slogan we can all get behind. :smallwink:

[Alleran]

Tarquin, you magnificent <can-I-say-that-word-here?>. Style and substance and just the right touch of villanous panache.

Not only did he quite carefully back Elan into a corner that only has one exit, he successfully modified his plans to account for the best possible outcome, doesn't throw a tantrum just because he failed to get everything he wanted (i.e. couldn't study the Gate before destroying it), and can still keep the bigger picture in mind. As in, Xykon is still a threat, still headed for the other Gate, and Tarquin still has a vested interest in ensuring that a group of heroes are able to stop him to ensure that his plans for the Western Continent continue unimpeded.

About the only thing he's come out behind in has been the loss of Malack. But I wouldn't be surprised to see that addressed in the next couple of strips after the Order leaves.

[Orange Knight]

Tarquin, being a magnificent bastard as usual. So magnificent he made me create a profile, just so I can say how magnificent he is.

I think this might go one of two ways:
Just as planned Tarquin says, with the Order going to the other gate and himself free to explore this one.

A wildcard option. Personally I think Nale and Elan might team up and off him together, right now. Both are furious at him. Elan knows he's a monster that needs to be stopped (as seen in the illusion). When surrounded by an evil army the hero will always escape. Nale can escape via magic. Both think their father is too tough to beat in a straight up fight, but that they can defeat the other. Elan has done it several times and Nale's ego is just that big. An attack from both would be completely unexpected, but would be a perfectly dramatic way to go.

Even if that doesn't happen (I know it's very unlikely) I don't think he's going to mind much about Malack. He's too pragmatic, and Malack was very boring and moralistic. He may get revenge later, as a matter of course, but business comes before pleasure.

[Roland Itiative]

Anyone else thinks Tarquin just exposed his back for Nale to repeat what he did to Elan all that time ago when they first met in the dungeon of Dorukan? He's conspicuously off-panel after showing a face of utter rage, I think :smalltongue: If he has another teleportation spell prepared, he could even escape afterwards without getting caught by the army or Tarquin's friend.

On the other hand, even if Tarquin was killed, nothing would stop his party from just raising him, even if they also lost their Cleric.

[Tychris1]

Not by any readily available means. Resurrection would bring him back as he was before he became a vampire, which Malack steadfastly refused, the only advantage True Resurrection would have is that Tarquin wouldn't have to scrounge up his ashes, and Wish specifically duplicates Resurrection. Miracle might be able to do it, but it would require Tarquin to have access to a cleric as powerful as Redcloak whose god wouldn't mind bringing back a very powerful vampire, and it is possible that Malack already invented a spell that could do it; as combat at that level is extremely lethal, just mitigated by the ease with which dead people can be brought back. However, Malack couldn't even cast Resurrection and this would almost certainly be an 8 or even a 9. Also, an epic level spell using a combination of the Life and Animate Dead seeds might be able to do it; but that's more Xykon's league than Team Tarquin's and again is not guaranteed to work.

Uhhh.....

You do know there is a spell called Revive Undead? It does exactly what it says on the tin. No epic level magic required at all. Heck, it's a 6th level spell (5th for Deathbound Clerics). Malack may just be kicking yet.

[Orange Knight]

It is the WINDY canyon, right? Good luck getting those ashes

[Kish]

Uhhh.....

You do know there is a spell called Revive Undead? It does exactly what it says on the tin.
And requires an intact body, so...quite useless here.

[Tychris1]

And requires an intact body, so...quite useless here.

It requires an intact body for the entire form to be revived, true.

BUT!

You can revive a scrap of him (Such as a piece of tail) and then rebuild him from around that piece with a Warforged Construct.

Robo-Malack.

[Silverionmox]

Tarquin even managed to piss off Elan. Truly, his genious knows no bounds.

[Unkillable_Cat]

Personally I think Nale and Elan might team up and off him together, right now. Both are furious at him.

I think this as well. Except for the timing. There will be a Big Dramatic Battle between Tarquin and BOTH his sons, who will have teamed up to stop their father. But not now. Later.

I get the feeling the OOTS story will not end with the resolution of Kraagor's Gate, but that there will be a "return journey" somewhat similar to Tolkien's Return of the King. Xykon will probably be dealt with at that point, but Tarquin will not.

Anyway, those are my wild speculations for now. As long as we get more Tarquin I'm perfectly happy.

[Traab]

Anyone want to bet that Tarquin's help won't come with hidden strings attached? Affably Evil is still definitely Evil.

Nah, or at least, not exactly. The closest thing to strings is, elan will still be doing more or less what daddy wants. Tarq WANTS elan to go off and fight for the gate, he wants elan and crew to win so some other evil warlord doesnt rule the world. What happens AFTER elan and crew secure the gate? Well, lets not worry about that just yet, right son?

Anyways, I dont think it will be anything silly like, "I help you, so you owe me big" It might be something like, "I helped you, now get out of my kingdom and go find that gate. As it is, I will waste the next 6 months suppressing the automatic rebellions that start to form any time a group of adventurers show up."

[Doorhandle]

Hmm... I guess this reaction makes FAR more sense with Tarquin's character, but at the same time I wanted to see them fight the dino army.

...Still time for V to screw it all up though. And I want to see that happen.

>:D


Anyone want to bet that Tarquin's help won't come with hidden strings attached? Affably Evil is still definitely Evil

I think the string attached was that the heinous tyranny will continue to persist.

[SSGW Priest]

I think Tarquin has created a new alignment -- pragmatic evil.

[Cifer]

Anyone else thinks Tarquin just exposed his back for Nale to repeat what he did to Elan all that time ago when they first met in the dungeon of Dorukan? He's conspicuously off-panel after showing a face of utter rage, I think :smalltongue: If he has another teleportation spell prepared, he could even escape afterwards without getting caught by the army or Tarquin's friend.

On the other hand, even if Tarquin was killed, nothing would stop his party from just raising him, even if they also lost their Cleric.Considering this is an RPG-Mechanics verse and Tarquin's shtick is defending against pretty much every kind of attack, I really doubt a backstab by Nale would do more than slightly inconvenience him.

Regarding the "Just as planned", I'm not sure.
On the one hand side, Tarquin couldn't straight-out help the OotS as they would never have trusted him.
Then again, he just lost Malack. Powerful clerics of flexible moral are hardly common in this world.
Turning Durkon into a vampire and returning him to the order would be seen as a benefit by Tarquin: Durkula can't heal quite as efficiently, but is a beast in melee and ultimately much more powerful - power they'll need for the last gate. The order would never have agreed to his vampirization willingly, but once it's a done deal, they can't easily un-vamp him.
About whether the world would be better off if Tarquin had left the order to do their thing, I`m not sure. For all intents, as long as not all gates are destroyed, a destroyed gate is as good as a secured one - the world doesn't seem to instantly end and Xykon can just search a new one.

Sooo... hm.

[elros]

I like the "Tarquin uses dramatic tension to make decisions" schtick. It works for the characters.

I'm just wondering how he's going to handle Malack's destruction. BTW, it's pretty amazing that the Giant can write stick figures with enough depth for me to seriously consider that question!

[JSSheridan]

Thanks Giant!

[Sikon]

I bet Tarquin have a jar somewhere containing some of Malacks toenail klippings for that resurection.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/resurrection.htm

"The condition of the remains is not a factor. So long as some small portion of the creature’s body still exists, it can be resurrected, but the portion receiving the spell must have been part of the creature’s body at the time of death."

Won't work (otherwise actual D&D players would store strands of each other's hair or something to do exactly that).

Malack's remains completely evaporated, only his robe is left, and that doesn't count as a body part.

Then of course, him being a vampire renders the entire point moot. Resurrecting him would just bring back his previous living self, with none of vampire Malack's memories.

The real question is: if Tarquin is sincere in his offer of help, why doesn't the OOTS ask one of his clerics to resurrect Durkon now? (We know they won't, because of the "posthumously" and "death and destruction" prophecies, but the question is why.)

[RNGgod]

I'm still wondering if Tarquin plans to off Nale. I think he's probably impressed that Nale destroyed Malack, so maybe he'll say that inspired him to let Nale live.



Anyway, my end of story arc prediction is this: the order departs for the northern lands, has a little conversation, and we cut back to Tarquin and his army. Slowly, Tarquin orders them into the rift.

[elitemantis]

Seems to me like Tarquin didn't just read the Evil Overlord List. He wrote it.

[Shale]

Not unlike the rooftop pun-duel - Tarquin fights the heroes because that's what villains do, not because he has a masterstroke to execute, and if he loses, no hard feelings. It is still kinda unsatisfying if that was his only game, though. We lost Durkon for the sake of adherence to narrative standards? I'm hoping there's more to come re: Elan and Nale.

(Also, I was right! The army was there to secure the Gate and nothing more. Well, except for the dramatic revelations, but other than that.)

[Kish]

The real question is: if Tarquin is sincere in his offer of help, why doesn't the OOTS ask one of his clerics to resurrect Durkon now? (We know they won't, because of the "posthumously" and "death and destruction" prophecies, but the question is why.)
Assuming Tarquin has clerics who are higher level as clerics than Malack was (Malack couldn't cast seventh-level spells)...

...why would they trust him? "We're going to stake Durkon now and trust a horrifically evil temporary-at-best ally who has demonstrated that his loyalties, insofar as he even has loyalties that aren't to himself, can change on a moment's notice, to have him resurrected."

[TheBST]

...Still time for V to screw it all up though. And I want to see that happen.


God I hope so. This 'Tarquin gets away without even messing-up his hair' crap is testing to say the least.

[Mutant Sheep]

Haley! Quickly, say something that everyone agrees with next comic that points out how pointless this all was and how losing Malack and old Durkon, and Zz'dtriz, for nothing, is stupid. Get the EMOTION.

[Jiggs]

Cool turn of events!

[Cifer]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/resurrection.htm

The real question is: if Tarquin is sincere in his offer of help, why doesn't the OOTS ask one of his clerics to resurrect Durkon now? (We know they won't, because of the "posthumously" and "death and destruction" prophecies, but the question is why.)
Ressurection is 7th level. I believe we learned Malack`s highest spell level was either 6 or 7. It seems like there aren't too many characters of that level around.
Raise Dead, on the other hand, can`t raise anyone who was subsequently made undead.

[Damaris]

Man, I really hope Tarquin gets away with this...

[HandofShadows]

Tarquin is a living example that the Evil Overlord list works. Nale again proves himself to be a total <explitive deleted>. GREAT PAGE! :smallbiggrin:

[Zephyr1011]

Tarquin is my new favourite character. Let's just hope that the Order are pragmatic enough to work with him against a greater foe. And actually take some good magic items.

And hasn't it been 20 minutes yet? Where's V?

[meto30]

Once again, Tarquin never fails to impress. A salute to his greatness is in order, I believe.

I personally do hope he will remain alive for as long as possible, preferably until the very end of the strip, but I guess he'll make an exit somewhere along.

[jaymiechan]

I don't know if it has been pointed out yet, but I think Tarquin made a big strategic mistake. He lost one of his most powerful allies, and gained nothing. And if he never planed to take over the gate, the deaths of Malak and Durkon were pointless. They could have compromised by destroying the gate and fighting Xykon.

i think what everyone who makes this point is forgetting is Tarquin has said he would have studied the Gate, BEFORE destroying it. He'd have gained info on the gates, the spells and materials used in it, etc. It was more than just a race with his son.

[Sikon]

Ressurection is 7th level. I believe we learned Malack`s highest spell level was either 6 or 7. It seems like there aren't too many characters of that level around.
Raise Dead, on the other hand, can`t raise anyone who was subsequently made undead.

Okay, then Durkon seems screwed. The only clerics of suitable level that we know of are Durkon himself, Redcloak, and that Azure City cleric who tried to resurrect Shojo. But the Azure City folks are unlikely to help someone working with Tarquin or vampire Durkon...

[pearl jam]

Another great comic and more fuel for all the Tarquin fans out there. :smallbiggrin:

[Shale]

Note also that he made sure to call Elan a "true hero." Presumably making sure of was also part of his play - like Malack said, he wanted to "take the measure of [his] other son." And now we know why: if Elan and the Order weren't up to the job, Tarquin would have to consider taking on Xykon himself, despite the comparatively bad odds of villains fighting villains.

[pendell]

Tarquin is the greatest villain EVAH. Suave, completely amoral, but nonetheless ruthless and practical. Of course when you're already ruling a big chunk of the world the last thing you want is for some nutcase to try a ritual which MIGHT help but might also end the world.

Why risk everything on a doomsday weapon to control the world when you ALREADY control as much of the world as you want?

"This plan had way too many moving parts" -- indeed. Isn't that pretty much all of Nale's plans.

"My son, making the world safe for oligarchical tyranny. I think I'll start implying it was my plan all along."

*Snort*.

I guess it's too early to applaud the conclusion of the book yet, because we're still wrapping up. But nonetheless this is a very applause-worthy ending to an excellent book.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Emulgator]

The real question is: if Tarquin is sincere in his offer of help, why doesn't the OOTS ask one of his clerics to resurrect Durkon now? (We know they won't, because of the "posthumously" and "death and destruction" prophecies, but the question is why.)


Because it would weaken OOTS actually. Durkula is more useful than Durkon with a level gained through the journey. Also he might not want to be ressurected, and take his chances with running away instead.

[Uniqueorn]

Based on his updating schedule, it was always obvious that Rich is lawful evil, which probably explains how he can write a lawful evil character like Tarquin so brilliantly well! :smallsmile:

[Mastikator]

You gotta hand it to Tarqin, he gives Elan what he richly deserves: a headache.

[SterlingAvenger]

Oh my ... That is a truly horrible man. So horrible in fact that I can't stop laughing. What a Magnificent Bastard :smallbiggrin:

[LuisDantas]

Tarquin is a shameless predator, opressor and mass murderer.

But darned if he does not know how to think rationally within the confines of that disgrace. And he seems to have a permanent "Protection from Fourth Wall" spell cast at him.

[Shale]

Because it would weaken OOTS actually. Durkula is more useful than Durkon with a level gained through the journey. Also he might not want to be ressurected, and take his chances with running away instead.

Roy outright says they're planning to raise him. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0910.html) But I doubt they trust any of Tarquin's clerics to do the job.

[RMS Oceanic]

Because it would weaken OOTS actually. Durkula is more useful than Durkon with a level gained through the journey. Also he might not want to be ressurected, and take his chances with running away instead.

That's debatable. Most of the time 9th Level magic trumps strength bonuses and spell like abilities, and now it looks like Durkon won't get that until he gains enough experience to get to level 25, which is more than 200,000 XP. This is the problem with level adjustments: Their benefits are front-loaded.

Now it's fair to say that we don't yet know what Durkula's wishes are: Whether to stay as he is or return to his old form.

[cybishop]

Haley! Quickly, say something that everyone agrees with next comic that points out how pointless this all was and how losing Malack and old Durkon, and Zz'dtriz, for nothing, is stupid. Get the EMOTION.

Well, Nale is showing emotion here, if no one else. That's something. And Roy demonstrated frustration and fatigue last comic. Emotions all around!

I think Tarquin is plenty mad, and just hiding it. Or if he's not mad yet, it's because he doesn't know about Malack yet. (We have no idea how much Nale told him off-panel, or what he was able to find out on his own.)

I can believe that Tarquin would take a "may the best man win" approach to conflicts between his sons and his friends. However, I really can't believe that he'd approve of the stupid waste that resulted from the conflict. Due to Nale's leadership decisions, his party lost two vampire clerics and a wizard in about five minutes. Even setting aside any feelings of friendship Tarquin may have had for Malack, that's legendary incompetence. (Unbeknownst to everyone, Nale has a epic-level prestige class: spanner-in-the-works. Its most notable class feature is a huge boost to the saving throws of the opposing side.)

Tarquin wouldn't be so transparent as to show emotion until he's ready to set someone on fire, but he's definitely pissed off right now.

[Emmerson Grant]

Awesome comic.

Just one minor nitpick: panel 9, "including" missed the second "i".

[Solse]

It's perfect.

Also, I checked this strip right as I'm heading out to a job interview. If I get it I'll assume that Tarquin planned that as well.

Tarquin plans everything: job interviews, sports games, Tarquin even controls when the webcomic updates.

ALL HAIL THE MIGHTY TARQUIN!

[pendell]

Question.

Panel 2, strip 912: Where is Zzd'tri's corpse? Shouldn't it be visible? Unless it was buried in the sand or otherwise disposed of , shouldn't it be in the wide angle view of the order's last battle site?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Reathin]

And my fanboyism for Tarquin grows yet higher. I do believe he's in my Top Three Villains in Fiction list now.

[Codyage]

So, I guess this confirms Durkon released the Hamatula?

[Ivrytwr]

Tarquin forever!
He is the villian that keeps on giving.
Please don't let him get killed of in the next pages, in a fit of rage by somebody.
Thanks Giant!

[Kuroshima]

Seems to me like Tarquin didn't just read the Evil Overlord List. He wrote it.

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Tarquin2.png
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Tarquin.png

I wish I could have my antagonists in my game be as genre savvy and as suave as Tarquin.

[Tragak]

Kinda like Eugene's LAWFUL good to Roy's lawful GOOD. EVIL OPPOSITES!!! :smalltongue:

[gerryq]

It's not anticlimactic at all. It actually fits with a lot of the unexpected turns that this story has taken.

Besides, Sabine should be due back to this realm eventually. What if she comes back just in time to level-drain dear old dad? Remember, Tarquin can't win absolutely everything all the time. He's going to fall before the end of the strip, we all know that - possibly sooner, possibly later. But it might be setting up now.

In the desert, surrounded by Tarquin's army, seems like a really bad place to kill Tarquin.

[Xelbiuj]

So is he just going to prep them and send them on their way, again? Huh.

Called it though, I knew the gate was useless to him and he didn't plan on keeping it. He may try some swooping on the next gate but this one, Nale and he were going off half cocked without a plan.

[Shale]

Also, with how much pride Nale takes in his evil genius, how sick a burn is it for Tarquin to put "plan" in quotes?

[gerryq]

i think what everyone who makes this point is forgetting is Tarquin has said he would have studied the Gate, BEFORE destroying it. He'd have gained info on the gates, the spells and materials used in it, etc. It was more than just a race with his son.

"That weird purple... hole... down there"

Tarquin seems just a little too incurious.

[Faramir]

Tarquin - Best ... Villain ... Ever.

[Hircine]

I love Tarquin.

[ratfox]

Woo-hoo! Posting in… er… fifth page. :smalleek:

I'm wondering what are Tarquin's plans for Nale. I take it that revenge for Malack isn't on the table.

I'd say that he could make Nale and Elan compete for the last gate, but realistically, Nale is not really in any position to compete at this time… Considering his team is done for, and his goals are unrealistic.

[Harry Leipzig]

Let's hope that Tarquin doesn't go to Baator for a little while longer- at the rate he's going, he'll be running the joint! :smalltongue:

[Blisstake]

10 gold says Laurin gates them to their next location.

[Chad30]

That was quick. I guess we won't see Tarquin's team fight Xykon's team after all. Not that I would expect Tarquin's team to win. Xykon is the Bigger Bad, after all.

[Kgw]

Aaand this update, as many others, show me why is so hard for the Giant making "unlikeable villains". Tarquin is so evil that "Evil" in the dictionary appears as "see Tarquin"... and I can't help admiring his work (less the human torchs -not the Marvel™ ones-, enslaving, cold-blooded assassinations, etc.)

[Syncrogti]

another brilliant reflection about power
"Power I can't access is no power at all"


Sounds a lot like Xykon and his phalanges argument he had with V.

Also, Elan's happy ending doesn't include Nale's death so I suspect Nale will survive all of this.

[Subzero008]

I wonder if Tarquin could bring back non-vamp Durkon. I'm sure he has a cleric or two in that huge continent of his.

[Vedhin]

"Power I can't access is no power at all."
Well said, Tarquin, well said. I love the contrast with Xykon's "Power is power."

[Kodan]

Alright, here are my predictions

A) Nale attacks Tarquin from behind, successfully killing him.
Having watched their leader die, they attack the Order -OR- follow Nale, and Nale has the army attack Nale.
So, they flee through the rift.

B) Elan gets so angry, he attacks Tarquin, Nale stabs Tarquin in the back. His army attacks, so the Order flees through the rift.

Plausible? Maybe. I think they're going through the rift for sure.

[Nilan8888]

Another tidbit -- while here Tarquin calls his son a big shot hero, I noticed that in the last strip he asks Roy to send Elan up to him. Am I correct in thinking this is the first time that Tarquin seems to realize that his son isn't the leader of the group?

Good point. There's a few possibilities for this:

1. It was a mistake on Rich's part. Unlikely, but sometimes slips exactly like this get through. We're only human.

2. It could be subconscious. Maybe he consciously thinks Elan's the leader, but his subconscious has grasped the obvious, so he winds up treating Roy as the leader without realizing the implication.

3. He might think they're co-leaders, with Elan as the brains and Roy as the brawn and the power behind the throne. So Elan just lets Roy believe he's in charge (similar to what Ian assumed with Haley). Which would be hilarious.


I too, think Tarquin's not just going to let them go away on their own. But I also think that whatever's going to happen, in true Tarquin fashion, it's going to be hard to hate him for it.

[davidbofinger]

Resurrection would bring him back as he was before he became a vampire, which Malack steadfastly refused

Depends who is in the afterlife. If it's pre-vampire Malack then he might accept. But then all you have is a low-level cleric so who cares.


Miracle might be able to do it, but it would require Tarquin to have access to a cleric as powerful as Redcloak whose god wouldn't mind bringing back a very powerful vampire

I'm guessing Durkula with a scroll is the closest thing you'd find to that. Where you'd get the scroll I don't know.

[Chad30]

Alright, here are my predictions

A) Nale attacks Tarquin from behind, successfully killing him.
Having watched their leader die, they attack the Order -OR- follow Nale, and Nale has the army attack Nale.
So, they flee through the rift.

B) Elan gets so angry, he attacks Tarquin, Nale stabs Tarquin in the back. His army attacks, so the Order flees through the rift.

Plausible? Maybe. I think they're going through the rift for sure.

I'm not sure why the army would start following the guy that just killed their leader, instead of killing him. Especially with Tarquin's team mate standing right there.

Elan doesn't have much reason to attack his dad right now, and if he did I'd call it an OoC moment. I don't see either of those scenarios as plausible. I really don't think they're going through the rift for sure.

[davidbofinger]

Tarquin's actions make a lot of sense if he plans on following the OotS to Kraagor's Gate. There's nothing for him here, and he still has the rune sewn into the carpet. So his best course is to get the OotS heading off toward Kraagor's Gate as fast as practical, before they start wondering how he found them.

[Kodan]

I'm not sure why the army would start following the guy that just killed their leader, instead of killing him. Especially with Tarquin's team mate standing right there.

Elan doesn't have much reason to attack his dad right now, and if he did I'd call it an OoC moment. I don't see either of those scenarios as plausible. I really don't think they're going through the rift for sure.

Isn't that area ruled by whoever is strongest? By killing Tarquin, he proves he's stronger than tarquin, so why would they remain to their now dead ruler?

[Ceilican]

You know...if Tarquin is willing to play the really long game, he's set. He may not have a gate, but he know where one is going to be. After all, things don't end with saving the last gate...eventually, new gates will have to be built. One goes here, right in his back yard.

I doubt he'll get the chance, though. I think we're about to see Ian come back and that army of Tarquin's will be put to good use. It would fit with the Story's style that as soon as things look like they might come together, some unresolved plotline comes back to muck it all up again.

[Syncrogti]

If the rift is in the crater, what would happen if they fill the crater in? Would it allow sand to spill into the rift or would it simply hide the rift below the sand surface?

have the other rifts been left unguarded after their gates were destroyed?

[Vinsfeld]

Does that mean that, after this book is over, we won't see Tarquin anymore?

[Kareasint]

Tarquin has once again earned the title:

Magnificent Bastard. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/MagnificentBastard/WebComics)

That last panel was absolutely beautiful. Rich, this character must be a lot of fun to write.

[DeadMG]

Damn, I totally called that destroying the Gate was what Tarquin really wanted.

[ravenmeister]

If the rift is in the crater, what would happen if they fill the crater in? Would it allow sand to spill into the rift or would it simply hide the rift below the sand surface?

have the other rifts been left unguarded after their gates were destroyed?

Don't overthink it. Portals and physics/logic don't fit in together well.

[Shining Wrath]

Before reading all the existing comments:

I assume that every word spoken by Tarquin is a lie. He is up to something.
I think that Nale is close to attempting to rage-kill Tarquin. Which he would have trouble doing under optimal conditions, and he's very likely to be eaten by a dinosaur under current conditions.
Once the OotS departs to make the world safe for Tarquin's empire (assuming he actually permits said departure), we will perhaps learn what he's up to.
Tarquin's use of Haley's last name is ominous - because that means that Tarquin knows who Haley's father is. And that's one big hook into the OotS for a magnificent bastard to use.
I wonder if Tarquin would help find Vaarsuvius. If it suits his purposes - yes.

[Ghost Nappa]

You know...if Tarquin is willing to play the really long game, he's set. He may not have a gate, but he know where one is going to be. After all, things don't end with saving the last gate...eventually, new gates will have to be built. One goes here, right in his back yard.

I doubt he'll get the chance, though. I think we're about to see Ian come back and that army of Tarquin's will be put to good use. It would fit with the Story's style that as soon as things look like they might come together, some unresolved plotline comes back to muck it all up again.

Tarquin is so evil, he's good.

No. I don't mean like that, I mean like, he's a good villain- He's a good villain because he's evil. No no no...

He's a well-written Machiavellian Puppet Master Villian, except he's also very-in-your-face about it so he's like...

Oh just read the trope. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagnificentBastard)

(Although, most of the major political power players qualify for it as well...

The Oracle, Shojo, Redcloak, Xykon, the IFCC... the fact that almost every "side" has one is one of the main features of the comic.

[Vinsfeld]

Did Z's corpse vanish? We can't see it in the second panel. :smallconfused:

[Wordplay]

My reaction to the strip:-

'Haha, hahahah, hahahaha!'

Thanks Giant, really brightened my day just when I needed it. :smallsmile:

[screwtape]

I fricken love Elan's old man. Best character in the comic.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Tarquin has once again earned the title:

Magnificent Bastard. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/MagnificentBastard/WebComics)

That last panel was absolutely beautiful. Rich, this character must be a lot of fun to write.
My exact thoughts. TARQUIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[CoffeeIncluded]

Tarquin is hiding something again. And I think this last one may have something to do with Haley.

[The Pilgrim]

Haley, it's about time for you to say those three words that are so important for you:

"Sneak attack, bitch".

Nale would love to sneak attack his father, too.

[Shining Wrath]

It requires an intact body for the entire form to be revived, true.

BUT!

You can revive a scrap of him (Such as a piece of tail) and then rebuild him from around that piece with a Warforged Construct.

Robo-Malack.

EPIC. Malack would be, RAW, an vampire living construct.

[Blisstake]

Good point. There's a few possibilities for this:

1. It was a mistake on Rich's part. Unlikely, but sometimes slips exactly like this get through. We're only human.

2. It could be subconscious. Maybe he consciously thinks Elan's the leader, but his subconscious has grasped the obvious, so he winds up treating Roy as the leader without realizing the implication.

3. He might think they're co-leaders, with Elan as the brains and Roy as the brawn and the power behind the throne. So Elan just lets Roy believe he's in charge (similar to what Ian assumed with Haley). Which would be hilarious.

I too, think Tarquin's not just going to let them go away on their own. But I also think that whatever's going to happen, in true Tarquin fashion, it's going to be hard to hate him for it.

I think Tarquin realized that a while ago. Remember, he called Elan the leader when Elan didn't know that Tarquin suspected they were all in the same party. They haven't formally spoken since Elan and Haley were pretending to be separate from Roy, Belkar, and Durkon.

[Tragak]

Tarquin is hiding something again. And I think this last one may have something to do with Haley. What, like getting her within Psion-range to confirm that the prisoner who jumped ship (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0814.html) is, in fact, her father (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0822.html)?

[Phantaskippy]

Varsuuvius was just under the gate when it exploded, her soul wasn't, but her body was. I don't think there's a reunion with the order anytime soon, her body if it is still in decent shape is through the rift.

Tarquin isn't going to turn that army around and march home, he wants to know more about the rifts, I'm sure he'll come up with a plan that he's had all along.

As for him and his sons, I think Tarquin still plans on Elan succeeding him. Not even turning him evil, Tarquin's alignment is a tool he uses, he's not that committed to evil. I could see the moment he is faced with defeat being the moment he would try to make a deal that would leave his power to Elan and let him retire. Or he might find that to be a lousy ending and go out with a bang, you never know.

What's not to love about a pragmatist with an overdeveloped sense of drama.

[whitemane]

Wow! The thing that makes Tarquin such a good villain is that even when he states why letting the OOTS go on their quest is a good thing and will benefit him, you can't help but wonder if in spite of his logical argument, he has some other agenda that he's not telling us about.

In any case, he is absolutely right, there are way too many moving parts in Nale's plan (the biggest hurdle is finding the ritual that is needed to control the gates... I mean, Xykon and Redcloak are the only ones that know it!)

[Oko and Qailee]

I just... Tarquin...

what?!

[StClair]

He truly puts the "Magnificent" in _____ Bastard.

[Shining Wrath]

Tarquin didn't bring his army there just to look at the rift, there is something going on.

Tarquin is also where he is because he knows how to not be the center of attention, that he is willing to tip his hand so heavily and come out of the background says he has a lot invested in something.

I think Tarquin has plans for Elan to succeed him, but that isn't the main plan, that's a side project.

I think that army might be for the planet in the rift, he didn't march them out there just to turn and go home, his plans are way better than that.

Clearly the psion can take an entire division (depending on nation, 6,000 to 20,000 troops) anywhere, so Tarquin doesn't need the Gate to move his army around. Either that army is there to ensure that Roy talks, or the army is going THROUGH the gate.

I'm going to guess #2. Tarquin is about to conquer an entire world. And possibly set Nale up to rule it. Then turn the Western Empire over to Elan when Tarquin dies, and each of his sons is ruler of a vast domain. If one is a Magnificent Bastard and aware of one's own mortality, that is pretty damn good Magnificent Bastardosity.

[Oko and Qailee]

I'm gonna have to disagree with the theories being presented.

I think Tarquin is being pretty straight up honest about not having any other plan than providing Elan with supplies.

He still hasn't addressed the Malack issue, and I want to see how that plays out between him and Nale.

[Seiryu]

Really nice comic. Put a smile on my face... it's hard to hate Tarquin.

I still don't see what's been addressed here requiring the presence of only Elan and Haley, though - or of his army, for that matter.

I wonder if any of this has anything to do with Familicide... Maybe Tarquin found out what killed his wife (but maybe not every detail of it?) and wants to talk to his family about that? We still haven't gotten the ominous reveal we were promised.

[Oko and Qailee]

I love Tarquins comment about "too many moving parts" also, it kind of shows in Nale's planning that he usually over complicates his plans (see: When he kidnapped Julia).

Edit: I also think V is perfectly fine, the floor beneath the rift seems to be completely intact.

[Joe the Rat]

Good point. There's a few possibilities for this:

1. It was a mistake on Rich's part. Unlikely, but sometimes slips exactly like this get through. We're only human.

2. It could be subconscious. Maybe he consciously thinks Elan's the leader, but his subconscious has grasped the obvious, so he winds up treating Roy as the leader without realizing the implication.

3. He might think they're co-leaders, with Elan as the brains and Roy as the brawn and the power behind the throne. So Elan just lets Roy believe he's in charge (similar to what Ian assumed with Haley). Which would be hilarious.


He definitely has a sense that Roy is in charge. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0863.html)


It requires an intact body for the entire form to be revived, true.

BUT!

You can revive a scrap of him (Such as a piece of tail) and then rebuild him from around that piece with a Warforged Construct.

Robo-Malack.No more Shōwa-Era Godzilla movies for you.

[Sir_Leorik]

Though at the same time, there's a part of me that's sitting here going "All that pain and suffering, Durkon's vampirization - it was all because Tarquin wanted to do the same thing as the Order?" :smallmad:

DaggerPen, that's Malack's doing, not Tarquin's. If we're going to blame Tarquin for Malack deciding to fight and then Sire Durkon, simply because Tarquin brought him to the Pyramid, we also have to blame Roy for coming up with a plan that inadvertently separated Malack from the Linear Guild, Belkar for splitting off on his own to fight the Hellhound, Girard for designing traps with airtight doors and High Priest Hurak for exiling Durkon in the first place. In short, there will be no end to this blame game. I choose to blame a single character: Malack. His fangs and staff committed the deeds, his shriveled up soul bears the guilt. He's ash now, and hopefully he's getting punished in the afterlife (or has become a Crimson Mist, forever denied entry to the afterlife).

In this strip Tarquin shows why he's so magnificent and so dangerous. He's genre savvy, he's pragmatic, he has a small amount of honor, he's polite, but then he does or says something to remind you just how big a creep he really is. He'll offer to help Elan, but is he doing so out of love and because he worries about one of his sons, or is he doing so out of self-interest and greed? He came to the site of Girard's Pyramid with an army teleported there by a powerful Psion, but when he sees that Roy's accomplisdhed the task he came to do, he gets ready to pack up and head home rather than fight. Tarquin doesn't engage in pointless conflicts, unlike Nale. As he said to Malack, "business first"; so long as it was in his interests to secure the Gate, study it and maybe destroy it, he needed an army. Now he needs to have Laurin transport the OotS to the Northern Continent, after providing them with healing and supplies. (And probably telling Elan that it wouldn't reduce him below -10 hit points to cast a Sending to Tarquin every once and a while just to say "hi" to his old man.)

Here's my predictions:

The Order will accept Tarquin's help, since they need to catch up to Xykon, pronto. Nale will throw a fit, but he's in no shape to fight Roy, Haley, Elan and Durkula, all by his lonesome. While this is going on, Roy and Belkar will be looking for V's body; they'll find catatonic V, and Durkon will point out that she's still alive, but her soul is separated from her body. Before Roy can comment about that, Tarquin will have Laurin teleport the OotS to Bleedingham, where there will be a brief montage of their preparations to leave, and Laurin will open a portal for them. Just before Book Five ends, there will be a cutaway scene to O-Chul and Lien, hiking through the hills towards Kraagor's Tomb.

[multilis]

Last time T helped he had tracking device so his said plan was not the real plan.

The IIFC has a plan which required gate to be blown up, the V counter plan of find out what is on other side first before blowing it up was blocked by them at cost of 1/3 of their very expensive one in 100 year deal.

Blowing up last gate is not an option for OOTS, because then supposedly world ends. X will be heading to last gate. So no matter what T's other plans, his current plans seem tied to sending OOTS to fight #1 evil, while he somehow profits in similar way IIFC wanted to.

[Turgon9357]

Another tidbit -- while here Tarquin calls his son a big shot hero, I noticed that in the last strip he asks Roy to send Elan up to him. Am I correct in thinking this is the first time that Tarquin seems to realize that his son isn't the leader of the group?


I noticed this as well, when the last strip was posted. I can think of at least 3 reasonably probable interpretations, given that it is now clear that Tarquin didn't just get his family out of the way while he arranges the unconditional surrender of the rest of the Order.

1) Tarquin is aware that Elan isn't the leader of the party and just tipped his hand a bit about what he knows. Conversations with him have almost always been chess games; it's never just about what he's talking about.

2) Tarquin is aware that Elan isn't the leader of the party and doesn't thing that makes Elan less of a 'big shot hero'. It does compel him, however, to engage with the Order in a slightly different way. Also, he's probably talking to Elan and not Roy since Elan is clearly far more conflicted about his feelings towards his father and so more likely to not block Tarquin out of an advantageous understanding or deal.

3) Roy was the one talking at the time.


As a side note, I have a feeling that even Tarquin didn't know what he was really going to do once he reached the gate. Therefore, he had several plans set in motion, anyone of which could be easily enacted once he gathered more information about the gate and the situation.
Gate is intact and possibly controllable (within reasonable probability) -> secure area, prepare to study, relish in victory
Gate is intact and uncontrollable -> destroy gate, relish in victory
Gate is destroyed -> relish in victory
Follow-up with sons: send Elan on his way, deal with Nale (evaluate his reaction, deal with him as appropriate)

[Chad30]

Isn't that area ruled by whoever is strongest? By killing Tarquin, he proves he's stronger than tarquin, so why would they remain to their now dead ruler?

I'm not sure how Nale would do it anyway, even if he does still have his sword. Which I think is usually visible when he has it. I just don't see Nale suddenly killing him in one swift attack, which it would have to be. If it hake more than a second/round, then it's not like the army and the girl whose name I haven't memorized is going to just stand there watching.

[Ezekiel]

Seeing Nale angry makes me laugh every single time. :smallbiggrin: Tarquin just keeps getting better and better.

[SavageWombat]

Assuming that Nale would try to kill Tarquin - it's because Tarquin deliberately turned his back on Nale. Which means Tarquin knows and wants Nale to try it.

To what end? To see if Elan tries to save him?

[Shining Wrath]

I'm not sure how Nale would do it anyway, even if he does still have his sword. Which I think is usually visible when he has it. I just don't see Nale suddenly killing him in one swift attack, which it would have to be. If it hake more than a second/round, then it's not like the army and the girl whose name I haven't memorized is going to just stand there watching.

I'd say the odds of a ~12th level sorcerer one-shotting an ~20th level fighter using a melee weapon are about the same as said fighter spontaneously casting "wish". If Nale attacks his father it's because he's temporarily insane with rage, and Tarquin will probably goblin-slap him into next week and deal with him when he wakes up

[Forikroder]

I Knew It! I Knew He Didnt Care About The Gate

[SavageWombat]

I'd say the odds of a ~12th level sorcerer one-shotting an ~20th level fighter using a melee weapon are about the same as said fighter spontaneously casting "wish". If Nale attacks his father it's because he's temporarily insane with rage, and Tarquin will probably goblin-slap him into next week and deal with him when he wakes up

But what if it's dramatically appropriate?

[t209]

Genre Savvy Tarquin strikes again.

[MtlGuy]

wow
great way to start my work day!

I concur! Thanks Mr. Burlew!

[Adaon Nightwind]

The speed of these updates is amazing :)

Please do take care of your thumb!

Also: A very satisfying twist. The Order is in enough trouble as it is, and Tarquin does indeed benefit from providing them with some - for him expendable - resources.

[denthor]

Tarquin evil CEO " I like this so much I will say it was my plan all along."

[alowe]

Cynical :smallsigh:

[Doug Lampert]

i think what everyone who makes this point is forgetting is Tarquin has said he would have studied the Gate, BEFORE destroying it. He'd have gained info on the gates, the spells and materials used in it, etc. It was more than just a race with his son.

Yep, he wanted to study it first, I think the "Looking for ways to actually use it" part of that sentance goes without saying.

Additionally, about a closely related point he even admits in comic that "I think I'll start implying it was my plan all along". Think everyone, Tarquin will lie if it makes him look more competent and capable and all-knowing. This isn't a secret or obscure, it's a basic part of his character. You should not trust him when he says "I meant to do that", ever.

Finally, Durkon and Malack and Z didn't get killed for nothing, from Tarquin's PoV vampire Durkon is no loss at all, Malack was going to kill Tarquin's son which Tarquin obviously didn't want, and Z is (a) Raise able, and (b) was never Tarquin's at all.


I can believe that Tarquin would take a "may the best man win" approach to conflicts between his sons and his friends. However, I really can't believe that he'd approve of the stupid waste that resulted from the conflict. Due to Nale's leadership decisions, his party lost two vampire clerics and a wizard in about five minutes. Even setting aside any feelings of friendship Tarquin may have had for Malack, that's legendary incompetence. (Unbeknownst to everyone, Nale has a epic-level prestige class: spanner-in-the-works. Its most notable class feature is a huge boost to the saving throws of the opposing side.)

Nale lost a minion and two of his mortal enemies, both enemies more powerful than he is. I'm not entirely clear on just what other than Z's death is supposed to be a sign of legendary incompetence. You're assuming that Evil is one big happy family and all on the same side.


As a side note, I have a feeling that even Tarquin didn't know what he was really going to do once he reached the gate. Therefore, he had several plans set in motion, anyone of which could be easily enacted once he gathered more information about the gate and the situation.
Gate is intact and possibly controllable (within reasonable probability) -> secure area, prepare to study, relish in victory
Gate is intact and uncontrollable -> destroy gate, relish in victory
Gate is destroyed -> relish in victory
Follow-up with sons: send Elan on his way, deal with Nale (evaluate his reaction, deal with him as appropriate)

Yeah, Tarquin's whole schtick isn't actually controlling everything, it's keeping adaptable and taking advantage where it's offered. That and looking good, which means he's likely to say "Just as I planned" at the drop of a hat whether it's true or not.


I Knew It! I Knew He Didnt Care About The Gate

Only if you both believe Tarquin about his plan to destroy it and you disbelieve the part where he says he plans to study it first. I'm not clear on why this is so widely done.

[wolfdreams01]

Wow. Did Tarquin actually just manage to patronize and demean Elan and Nale at the SAME TIME? That's impressive.

No wonder Elan's mom left Tarquin. Even if it weren't for the alignment differences, any arguments she might have had with a guy that smart and cynical must have been absolutely infuriating.

[denthor]

Power I can not access is no power at all- Tarquin

:xykon: Power equals power same thought

[McStabbington]

General Tarquin is starting to creep up on Grand Admiral Thrawn as my favorite villain ever.

[Forikroder]

Only if you both believe Tarquin about his plan to destroy it and you disbelieve the part where he says he plans to study it first. I'm not clear on why this is so widely done.

even if he did study it hed still come to the same conclusion becuase THE SNARL DOESNT EXIST (anymore)(presumably)

all his research would come up with is that Nale was wrong somehow and theres not even any power to claim

he came to the Desert to remove a variable and im sure regardless of what Tarquins research brought up he woud never have actually tried to use the gate

also you misheard him, he said he was PROBABLY going to destroy it but wanted to study it first and believed it was unrealistic to control it


No wonder Elan's mom left Tarquin. Even if it weren't for the alignment differences, any arguments she might have had with a guy that smart and cynical must have been absolutely infuriating.

i dunno she seems at least as smart as him, hes more of a wisdom-y smart and shes more of an intellectual-y smart

[wolfdreams01]

I think Tarquin offs Nale. This was a contest between his sons for inheritance, and Elan won. No point in leaving the loser around to plot - he might be competent later on, and it's too dangerous to wait and see. Yeah, so Elan's a good guy now - Tarquin will have a plan for that.

I think Tarquin will be just ABOUT to off Nale (for similar reasons - wrapping up loose ends and all that), but Elan will intercede on behalf of his brother.

[happycrow]

The dude just keeps playing Xanatos Speed-Chess.

Also, after Elan's safely out of the way, he'll have lots and lots of time to study the wierd purple bits at his leisure, having humiliated both his sons in the process.

[Burner28]

"It's so perfect, I think I'll start implying it was my plan all along"

What a great line!

[Sir_Leorik]

Honestly the real question is whether Tarquin is just going to eliminate Nale at this point, or is going to hold him captive to get his succubus companion to cop to what the plan really is. Honestly I'm not sure how much longer they're going to be relevant for - we're down to the last gate, and it seems at least reasonably plausible that means we're two or three arcs off from the end of the comic (one for the final gate, one for the other world, one for actually dealing with whatever the real problem is).

Nale is technically a wanted criminal in the Empire of Blood, and by law Tarquin should have executed Nale as soon as he saw him. But Tarquin has known about Nale's presence for weeks, if not months, and kept quiet. He let Nale lead the Linear Guild to a disastrous defeat, and while Malack is now dust, Tarquin's hardly going to shed that many tears over the scaly bloodsucker. By contrast, Nale has lost Zz'ditri (probably permanently this time), Yakyak, possibly Thog (we never saw them find his body, so I'm not counting the green goofball out yet) and a chance to claim one of the Gates.

Given that Tarquin knew that Nale was lurking about, and said nothing, I surmise that he does have some feelings for Nale. But for Tarquin, image is everything. He'll give Nale a flask of water and two days rations, then give him a one day headstart before he gives Gannji a call and asks if Tarquin can make amends. He's not going to kill Nale, because Nale isn't a threat to him. Tarquin can see Nale's clumsy attacks coming, just like he could out-pun-duel Elan. I can't see him killing Nale, except in one circumstance: if Nale is stupid enough to try attacking Tarquin in front of Tarquin's troops, they will pepper him with crossbow bolts before he can get a spell off or close for melee. Otherwise, Nale flees, meets up with Sabine, recovers Thog (if he still lives) and the Linear Guild vows revenge and will pop up again in book six or seven.


As for why he is here - if he sends the order on their way to the final gate, he gets to study the rift without them there to interfere.

He said why he ostensibly came: to destroy the Gate. But...


There's no way Tarquin's telling the truth here, once he sends the Order on their merry way, rested and rearmed, he'll have the time to explore the Rift at his leisure.

Look at it this way, sure Tarquin believes that Elan and his team will win, that's how the story should go after all. But a brilliant dictator of his caliber will not risk it all on an idiot bard and his rag tag friends.

Once the Order leaves, Tarquin will figure out a way to use the Rift for his own nefarious means, most likely as a last ditch escape hatch.

I do not think Tarquin knew about the Rifts or the world on the other side before getting here. (He probably doesn't know about them now, since he hasn't gone into the crater yet.) But he has two very smart people on his staff who can study it, especially if they have a whole division of soldiers guarding them: Laurin and Miron. Tarquin would be a fool to have brought his troops all this way, and not leave at least some of them to keep an eye on the hole in space/time leading to an ocean. He may even order his troops to build a fortress around the rift, to keep anyone from seeing it from a distance.

The problem for the OotS is that they are being given a tough choice to make: go to Kraagor's Tomb, and fight Xykon, or stay in Windy Valley and fight an entire army, despire being wounded, low on spells, with a missing Wizard and a Cleric with no healing spells prepared (and who now channels Negative Energy). Go save the world (with help from a cruel dictator that can make the difference between victory and defeat) or fight a cruel dictator, risking almost certain defeat, while the real villains carry out their nefarious scheme. Roy's going to choose A, no matter how much it upsets Elan.


Meanwhile, Malack will cast a sending and report that the scroll of Vampire Revitalization worked, but he will need a week to recreate his staff and add some new precautions to prevent such events from happening again.

McCoy: "Malack's dead, Jim. There's nothing left of that scaly bloodsucker but ash."

Spock: "Fascinating. In the end, Malack not only underestimated Nale's cleverness, but ironically it was Malack's very desire to create a new Vampires that left him vulnerable to Nale and Zz'ditri's attack."

Kirk, (looking warily at Durkula): "I'm sorry about, what happened to you, Brother Thundershield. I know how much, you despised the Undead, in your old life. However, the Prime Directive, forbids us to share the Federation's cure for, Vampirism with, other cultures, just as it forbids, us to, stake any Vampire we see. For Vampires are, sentient beings, protected by the Federation's --"

Durkula: "Ach, put a sock in it! Yer as long-winded as me buddy Vaarsuvius. But, yeh, Malack ain't gonna be castin' anymore spells no more. And his ashes have blown away, mixed wit' tha desert; ain't no one gonna be bringin' 'im back."

tl;dr: Malack's dead. Dead characters can't cast spells, Sending or otherwise.


Also I am surprised Nale knows so much about the Ritual.

Nale knows nothing about the Ritual; he only knows that Xykon had a ritual. Tarquin correctly points out in strip #912 that Nale's plan was ridiculously complicated, with too many steps, one of which required Nale to negotiate with Xykon for access to the Ritual.

[Aquillion]

Since Malark had been a vampire for over 200 years this presents some problems with locating a very high level cleric.Given that "over 200" years is precisely enough to make it impossible to resurrect you without an epic-level cleric, it's likely that Giant stated that number specifically to make it clear to rules-grognards that Malack can't be Resurrected.

[LBarimen]

Tarquin's plan is obvious. Get Nale close enought to Elan to kill him, so Tarquin can take Haley as his next wife. :smallwink:

[Forikroder]

Nale knows nothing about the Ritual; he only knows that Xykon had a ritual. Tarquin correctly points out in strip #912 that Nale's plan was ridiculously complicated, with too many steps, one of which required Nale to negotiate with Xykon for access to the Ritual.

actually he doesnt even know that he just assumes they do

[Syncrogti]

No one has healed Nale yet, he should be worried.

[Saturosian]

Huh. I had some guesses (pretty wild ones, actually) after the last strip, but I guess I waited too long to post them.

OR DID I?

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Tarquin.png Elan, Nale, there is a prophecy that we totally just started to fulfill...

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Tarquin.png Boys, there's a curse on our family, and...

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Tarquin.png I have a job for you both (this one wasn't as far off as the others)

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Tarquin.png Elan, Nale, I am your father!
:elan: Uh, Dad, you already did that reveal...
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Tarquin.png Oh, right, then umm...I was the one pretending to be Thog?
:elan: We had that one while you were off-panel.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Tarquin.png Oh, uh, good for you. I must be getting old. *ahem*

[HalfTangible]

You're probably right. I mean, if all Tarquin wanted was access to the Gate and maybe the ability to study it for a while, he could have just offered his help to the Order more directly. He's got to have something else up his sleeve, and is now just reverting back to affability now that either his goal has been accomplished or there's no need for direct conflict right now.

Tarquin wasn't fully aware of what the gates were or what he would need to access them until after the Order had already left. Besides, the Order only destroyed the Gate as a last resort. They wanted to keep it intact, maybe fortify it against Xykon.

I'm honestly more concerned why Haley is up there with Elan than any plans Tarquin has for this rift...

[Sir_Leorik]

Given that "over 200" years is precisely enough to make it impossible to resurrect you without an epic-level cleric, it's likely that Giant stated that number specifically to make it clear to rules-grognards that Malack can't be Resurrected.

I agree with your point, but I'm going to quibble with your use of "grognard". In the Tabletop RPG context, "grognards" are older players who complain that the game was better when they first began to play it. The term you are looking for is either "rules lawyers" or "optimizers" each of which is different, but would fit into the context of your sentence. A "rules lawyer" knows the rules inside and out in order to bend them to his advantage, usually by pointing out to the DM that the DM made a mistake. An "optimizer" is someone who studies the rules to improve the efficiency of her PC's performance, much the way a race car driver might tune up her engine and order special parts (splatbooks) to win races. An "optimizer" doesn't need to be a "rules lawyer", but they frequently are. Likewise a particularly asinine "rules lawyer" might consider "charop" to be an abuse of the spirit of the rules, and attack other players for "cheating".

There is no need for a player to have detailed knowledge of the rules of his favorite game system in order to be a "grognard". In fact many "grognards" operate on nostalgia, remembering the good times of playing the game, rather than all the frustration when their first level PC got killed because he had 1 hit point. Some "grognards" may have even forgotten the actual rules, and can be unpleasantly surprised should they reread their old rulebooks. :smallwink:

[Demolator]

Tarquin really is one of a kind. And to think I went to bed ten minutes before it came out! :smallfrown:

[Chad30]

No one has healed Nale yet, he should be worried.

Honestly I'm surprised Nale isn't already worried, given that he just killed Tarquin's buddy. He's acting like he's safe now, and I honestly don't know why.

[Dalek Kommander]

Additionally, about a closely related point he even admits in comic that "I think I'll start implying it was my plan all along". Think everyone, Tarquin will lie if it makes him look more competent and capable and all-knowing. This isn't a secret or obscure, it's a basic part of his character. You should not trust him when he says "I meant to do that", ever.

"Implying" something has all the advatages of lying, with much less down-side. Why should he actually SAY he meant to do it, when acting like it goes without saying is so much more badass?

If you go back and re-read Tarquin's previous "lies", you'll find he almost always just neglects to tell the whole truth. That's the mark of a true master of deception.

[Sir_Leorik]

Uhhh.....

You do know there is a spell called Revive Undead? It does exactly what it says on the tin. No epic level magic required at all. Heck, it's a 6th level spell (5th for Deathbound Clerics). Malack may just be kicking yet.


It is the WINDY canyon, right? Good luck getting those ashes


And requires an intact body, so...quite useless here.


It requires an intact body for the entire form to be revived, true.

BUT!

You can revive a scrap of him (Such as a piece of tail) and then rebuild him from around that piece with a Warforged Construct.

Robo-Malack.

Because Malack was reduced to ashes, which were scattered by the wind. He's not coming back, short of a carefully worded Wish or Miracle spell.


http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/resurrection.htm

"The condition of the remains is not a factor. So long as some small portion of the creature’s body still exists, it can be resurrected, but the portion receiving the spell must have been part of the creature’s body at the time of death."

Won't work (otherwise actual D&D players would store strands of each other's hair or something to do exactly that).

Malack's remains completely evaporated, only his robe is left, and that doesn't count as a body part.

Then of course, him being a vampire renders the entire point moot. Resurrecting him would just bring back his previous living self, with none of vampire Malack's memories.

Malack's also been dead too long to bring back with a Resurrection spell (over two centuries) unless you find an Epic level Cleric.


The real question is: if Tarquin is sincere in his offer of help, why doesn't the OOTS ask one of his clerics to resurrect Durkon now? (We know they won't, because of the "posthumously" and "death and destruction" prophecies, but the question is why.)

Technically, anything Durkula (or a Resurrected Durkon) does is "posthumous". But the "death and destruction" prophecy makes more sense if Durkula goes home as a Vampire and runs amok.

[SteveMB]

The problem for the OotS is that they are being given a tough choice to make: go to Kraagor's Tomb, and fight Xykon, or stay in Windy Valley and fight an entire army, despire being wounded, low on spells, with a missing Wizard and a Cleric with no healing spells prepared (and who now channels Negative Energy). Go save the world (with help from a cruel dictator that can make the difference between victory and defeat) or fight a cruel dictator, risking almost certain defeat, while the real villains carry out their nefarious scheme. Roy's going to choose A, no matter how much it upsets Elan.

Actually, Elan seems to be dealing with the side issue "Dad wants me to do this for lousy reasons; that doesn't change the fact that I need to do it anyway for good reasons" somewhat better than Roy did. Of course, Elan has the advantage of getting the good reasons first.


Honestly I'm surprised Nale isn't already worried, given that he just killed Tarquin's buddy. He's acting like he's safe now, and I honestly don't know why.

Er, because he's overconfident and disinclined to think things through when the conclusions are unpalatable?

[Sir_Leorik]

"Implying" something has all the advatages of lying, with much less down-side. Why should he actually SAY he meant to do it, when acting like it goes without saying is so much more badass?

If you go back and re-read Tarquin's previous "lies", you'll find he almost always just neglects to tell the whole truth. That's the mark of a true master of deception.

Tarquin has the Lawful Evil Alignment down to a tee. He uses half-truths, words that have multiple meanings, phrases that can be interpreted in many ways, and even tells the truth outright when he has no reason to lie. The Oracle of the Sunken Valley could take lessons from Tarquin on how to confuse and mislead people.

[Torvaun]

Tarquin has boats and flying things. My bet is, while everyone else runs off to Kraagor's Gate, he explores this rift at his leisure.:smallamused:

Tarquin isn't an explorer, he's a tyrant. He'll set up a fortress around the gate to make sure nothing comes through from the other side, but he has no need to go play Magellan.

[Sir_Leorik]

Actually, Elan seems to be dealing with the side issue "Dad wants me to do this for lousy reasons; that doesn't change the fact that I need to do it anyway for good reasons" somewhat better than Roy did. Of course, Elan has the advantage of getting the good reasons first.

Eugene's reasons for wanting Xykon destroyed weren't actually lousy, merely a little selfish. Originally, Eugene was trying to hunt down a murderer and get justice/vengeance for Fyron's murder. Later he abandoned that task to raise his family, and now he regrets that. So he was selfish to go to Roy and tell him the story, especially since he actually wanted Julia to destroy Xykon, not Roy. He also manipulated Roy at multiple turns and took more than a little pleasure at ridiculing his son while they were on the Transitive Plane. But Eugene looks like an Archon next to Tarquin. Tarquin only cares about saving the world because he rules part of it, not because it's the right thing to do. One of Eugene's complaints against Roy was that Azure City, a bastion of Law and Good, was overrun by Hobgoblins, and it's inhabitants massacred, enslaved or forced into exile. As much as a jerk as he can be, I feel that Eugene Greenhilt cares about the suffering of the Azurites, as much as Haley or Celia do.

[Ted The Bug]

Tarquin is just too fun. I hate to join the throng of Tarquin fans, but yeah, he's now far and away one of my favorite characters.

Tho I bet he's got more up his sleeve than he's showing right now (as usual).

[Sir_Leorik]

Tarquin isn't an explorer, he's a tyrant. He'll set up a fortress around the gate to make sure nothing comes through from the other side, but he has no need to go play Magellan.

That doesn't mean he can't send an expedition via airship into the Rift; it just means he's not expecting them all to come back. And if he sends explorers, he's going to do his best to keep others from doing so. (Such as by building the fortress you mentioned.)

[SavageWombat]

I agree with your point, but I'm going to quibble with your use of "grognard". In the Tabletop RPG context, "grognards" are older players who complain that the game was better when they first began to play it. The term you are looking for is either "rules lawyers" or "optimizers" each of which is different, but would fit into the context of your sentence. A "rules lawyer" knows the rules inside and out in order to bend them to his advantage, usually by pointing out to the DM that the DM made a mistake. An "optimizer" is someone who studies the rules to improve the efficiency of her PC's performance, much the way a race car driver might tune up her engine and order special parts (splatbooks) to win races. An "optimizer" doesn't need to be a "rules lawyer", but they frequently are. Likewise a particularly asinine "rules lawyer" might consider "charop" to be an abuse of the spirit of the rules, and attack other players for "cheating".

There is no need for a player to have detailed knowledge of the rules of his favorite game system in order to be a "grognard". In fact many "grognards" operate on nostalgia, remembering the good times of playing the game, rather than all the frustration when their first level PC got killed because he had 1 hit point. Some "grognards" may have even forgotten the actual rules, and can be unpleasantly surprised should they reread their old rulebooks. :smallwink:

Did you just rules-lawyer rules-lawyering?

[Forikroder]

Eugene's reasons for wanting Xykon destroyed weren't actually lousy, merely a little selfish. Originally, Eugene was trying to hunt down a murderer and get justice/vengeance for Fyron's murder. Later he abandoned that task to raise his family, and now he regrets that. So he was selfish to go to Roy and tell him the story, especially since he actually wanted Julia to destroy Xykon, not Roy. He also manipulated Roy at multiple turns and took more than a little pleasure at ridiculing his son while they were on the Transitive Plane. But Eugene looks like an Archon next to Tarquin. Tarquin only cares about saving the world because he rules part of it, not because it's the right thing to do. One of Eugene's complaints against Roy was that Azure City, a bastion of Law and Good, was overrun by Hobgoblins, and it's inhabitants massacred, enslaved or forced into exile. As much as a jerk as he can be, I feel that Eugene Greenhilt cares about the suffering of the Azurites, as much as Haley or Celia do.

the only reason Eugene cares about stopping Xykon is becuase as long as Xykon lives he doesnt get into the afterlife, if he could remove his blood oath he wouldnt care about anything else

[M.A.D]

Tarquin's plan is obvious. Get Nale close enought to Elan to kill him, so Tarquin can take Haley as his next wife. :smallwink:

:xykon: Ugh, take it to the fanfiction sites

[Phantom Thief]

Haha, I love that "Wow its too bad I don't have a son who's a big shot hero to go clean that up for me. OH WAIT"

Perfect.

[cybishop]

Another tidbit -- while here Tarquin calls his son a big shot hero, I noticed that in the last strip he asks Roy to send Elan up to him. Am I correct in thinking this is the first time that Tarquin seems to realize that his son isn't the leader of the group?

There are lots of possibilities, and it seems to me that the difference between most of them doesn't matter so much.

In addition to what others have already said, there's also the fact that we don't know exactly how the law of physics called "drama" works in the Oots-verse. (For that matter, Tarquin doesn't know for sure, and we don't know exactly how he thinks it works...) Him believing that Roy is the leader of the order is not necessarily in tension with him believing that Elan is the hero who will defeat him, later. It would make him a smarter evil overlord than Sauron, certainly. (EDIT: Not that he hasn't already cleared that bar.)



Nale lost a minion and two of his mortal enemies, both enemies more powerful than he is. I'm not entirely clear on just what other than Z's death is supposed to be a sign of legendary incompetence. You're assuming that Evil is one big happy family and all on the same side.

No, I'm assuming that Nale and Tarquin are both interested in personal power, and Nale is additionally interested in revenge for quasi-imagined slights. These assumptions are based on both what they've each actually said they want, and how they've acted. I'm also assuming that Nale genuinely wanted control of a Gate, although I'm less sure of this part.

Malack was Nale's enemy, but they were working together towards what was by all indications a common goal until Nale ended it. Also, Durkon was only Nale's enemy in the sense that he was a member of Elan's team. There was no personal animosity there. It's not Nale's fault that Durkon got vamped, but it is Nale's fault that he became free-willed and immediately killed Zz'dtri. There are now two fewer high-level clerics and a wizard willing to work with Nale, and that's Nale's fault.

It was also Nale's bad leadership that let the Order destroy the Gate to begin with. If he had been as good as Roy at seeing through a bluff, they would have had the Gate then and there. Not definitely, of course, but as likely as anyone present knows.

[Sir_Leorik]

Did you just rules-lawyer rules-lawyering?

As a DM who dislikes rules-lawyers pestering me at the game table, and as a player who dabbles in CharOp (but I admit to not being very good at it, at least in 3.5) I can tell the difference between the two. CharOp, when used in moderation, brings enjoyment to some players (in excess it can get out of hand, especially in 3.5). Rules-lawyering is not a fun part of the game; DMing is difficult, especially for new DMs, and having a player shove a book in your face only makes it harder.

Also, a good DM should always know how to out-rules-lawyer a rules-lawyer; out-rules-lawyering rules-lawyering itself is the logical extension of that. :smallbiggrin:

[Forikroder]

No, I'm assuming that Nale and Tarquin are both interested in personal power

Nale? yes, Tarquin? no.

Tarquin only cares about having enough power to obtain his goals, how him power is a means to an end while for nale it is the end goal

[DoctorIllithid]

I'm guessing Ms. Shattersmith is going to get the Order to the last gate. Fairly basic assumption, but I'll be pleased with myself regardless if I managed to predict something right.

[Grelna the Blue]

Does anyone else think we may be getting close to revealing what was being discussed at the end of OotS #882 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0882.html)?


Tarquin: But turning back to the matter at hand, we may safely conclude that Elan's team now knows of Malack's vampirism.

KilKil: Sir?

Tarquin: Well, we're standing around talking about it openly, aren't we?

If the protagonists didn't know Malack's secret, we'd still be speaking far more circumspectly about his "condition" and such--

--despite the fact that everyone in the room already knew.

KilKil: Oh! You mean like how we're conspicuously avoiding discussing the fact that before we left the city, you--

Tarquin: Now you're getting it!

Or has that come to pass already and I somehow missed it?

[Sir_Leorik]

Does anyone else think we may be getting close to revealing what was being discussed at the end of OotS #882 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0882.html)?

Or has that come to pass already and I somehow missed it?

I'm pretty sure Laurin Shattersmith teleporting an entire division into Windy Canyon was what they were alluding to.

[Arrowstorm122]

I bet V is going to come, and whatever she's going to say is going to change Tarquin's mind, no way he isn't one of the new "nine sides" that was supposed to be in this book.

[Kornaki]

When villains fight villains it's always a tossup is Tarquin's way of tellins us he know that when Nale and Malack threw down it was going to be a 50/50 coin flip regardless of what their respective positions said the fight should be. He probably dodged the fight because he didn't want to be a part of that coin flip

[Yoyoyo]

Also, a good DM should always know how to out-rules-lawyer a rules-lawyer; out-rules-lawyering rules-lawyering itself is the logical extension of that. :smallbiggrin:

When in doubt, random encounters that somehow seem to focus on rules-lawyer's PC. Or a steady stream of pickpockets. Or having the PC arrested on trumped up charges. Or misidentified as a the local dignitary the assassin's guild is looking to kill.

As Tarquin might say, "Rules (and rules-lawyer players) are meant to be broken." :smallbiggrin:

[krossbow]

Everyone talking about which son will kill tarquin.


To me, it seems like if EITHER of them kill tarquin, it will be with both of them Teaming up together to take him down.

A small enemy mine situation where the two of them put aside their differences for a moment to defeat their dad. Tarquin would LOVE it for the narrative twist, the two of them might actually be strong enough to defeat him, and it would work well.


of course, right AFTER they do that, it would probably end up like DMC 3 with the two of them fighting each other, but still.

[Gamgee]

I think he's bluffing. He has some sort of goal he isn't letting on.

[Kish]

Does anyone else think we may be getting close to revealing what was being discussed at the end of OotS #882 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0882.html)?



Or has that come to pass already and I somehow missed it?
Pretty sure the end of that sentence was something like, "Contacted Ms. Shattersmith and told her to bring the army."

[137beth]

Tarquin really is Evil:smalleek:
Well, at least now the order knows someone who can teleport them to Kraagor's gate.

[JackRackham]

Oh, man. That strip was just wonderful. "Making the world safe for tyrannical oligarchy...." Lol. Nale's rage is really cute, too. And Tarquin's logic is logical.

[brionl]

Because Malack was reduced to ashes, which were scattered by the wind. He's not coming back, short of a carefully worded Wish or Miracle spell.


Clone is only an 8th level spell. It shouldn't be too hard to come up with a version that also works on Vampires. Tarquin is nothing if not prepared.

[Fecar]

I am looking forward to nightfall when Durkon refreshes his spells for a chance to see which god he is now a cleric of.

[Sir_Leorik]

When in doubt, random encounters that somehow seem to focus on rules-lawyer's PC. Or a steady stream of pickpockets. Or having the PC arrested on trumped up charges. Or misidentified as a the local dignitary the assassin's guild is looking to kill.

As Tarquin might say, "Rules (and rules-lawyer players) are meant to be broken." :smallbiggrin:

The biggest humilation you can inflict on a rules-lawyer (and their "younger brother" the Munchkin) is forcing them to roleplay. No dice rolling, no combat, just roleplaying. Despite what some people think, enjoying CharOp does not mean a player does not like roleplaying; if anything it means the player is invested in the game enough to learn the rules. The rules-lawyer seems intent on draining the fun out of the game at every opportunity, and "Munchkins" don't seem to realize that you can have fun without killing anything (or by roleplaying in-character during combat), so a clever DM will force them into riddle contests with Dragons and Crypt Things; have them enslaved by pixies who want them to have a tea party in exchange for their freedom; have the reward for rescuing the princess be an invitation to a royal ball, where several noble ladies-in-waiting introduce themselves (and if the players act in a rude manner they risk being executed for insulting the nobility); or have them encounter "monsters" who are just peddlers, True Neutral soldiers-of-fortune, or aliens from an advanced, Spelljamming civilization. (Those "Orcs" you killed? That was the Scro ambassador to your planet and his attaches, on a diplomatic mission seeking peace between the Scro Alliance and the Great Elven Armada, being held by a neutral party. He was the Elves' last, best, hope for peace.) There's no need to invoke rules, except when it comes to broken rules from 3.5, like Diplomacy. Simply insist that a Diplomacy roll can't be made until the player makes an in-character speech or statement, and that the DM applies modifiers based on how convincing (or not) he found the player's in-character roleplaying.

[ScrapperTBP]

Oh Tarquin :P

[Sir_Leorik]

Clone is only an 8th level spell. It shouldn't be too hard to come up with a version that also works on Vampires. Tarquin is nothing if not prepared.

Reread the description of the Clone spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/clone.htm). You need to take the sample to grow the clone from a living organism, while it is alive.


To create the duplicate, you must have a piece of flesh (not hair, nails, scales, or the like) with a volume of at least 1 cubic inch that was taken from the original creature’s living body. The piece of flesh need not be fresh, but it must be kept from rotting. Once the spell is cast, the duplicate must be grown in a laboratory for 2d4 months.

Unless Malack has a chunk of his tail from two hundred years ago in the freezer, no one's Cloning him.

[brionl]

Clone is only an 8th level spell. It shouldn't be too hard to come up with a version that also works on Vampires. Tarquin is nothing if not prepared.
Reread the description of the Clone spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/clone.htm). You need to take the sample to grow the clone from a living organism, while it is alive.



Unless Malack has a chunk of his tail from two hundred years ago in the freezer, no one's Cloning him.

Reread my post.