NPC Soldiers lv 4

[Firechanter]

Alright, how should I put this...
If you were in charge of setting up the drill schedule for the recruits of a professional army, and you get to assign class(es) and feats, how would you set them up?
(Note, I don't need them to fight against PCs.)

Rules:
Race: Human
Abilities: individual stats will vary, but assume a starting 16 in their primary stat
Classes: Fighter, Crusader or Warblade, or pretty much any Full-BAB class except Barbarian.
Alignment: any Non-Evil.
Sources: pretty much all official WotC sources
Gear: full NPC gear, i.e. 3300GP worth at level 4. Each soldier can get a +1 Str (or Dex) item for 1000GP. So you can assume an 18 primary stat at level 4.
No flaws.

We just need the common soldiers here. Assume units to be led by either a White Raven adept or a Bardblade/Bardsader, Harmonious Knight, or similar character, and some kind of healer attached to each unit.

Since they are NPCs, we don't need to worry too much about further progression; certainly not beyond level 6.

Primarily, we want Heavy Infantry. Probably Polearm + Full Plate.
Then we can also think about Light Infantry, Skirmishers, Archers, Cavalry and whatever.
Bonus points if you get by without using Martial Adept levels. ;)

[NevinPL]

Arms and Equipment Guide has sample mercenaries divided into groups (light, medium, heavy, foot, mounted, etc.) with equipment, pricing, etc.
Heroes of Battle has sample soldiers, armies, etc.
Cityscape has sample city guards, thugs, etc.

[ArcturusV]

Heavy Infantry? Hmm. Probably more along the lines of medium armor, rather than plate (The -10 speed is a bigger hassle than the extra AC in my book, particularly since even for Infantry crossing ground quickly is more important than +2 AC), Tower Shields, and a one handed weapon of choice. I'd probably pick something based on maximizing damage types. Morningstars covering two, etc. Never know when you'll be asked to put down some undead infestation and will really need those Slashing/Bludgeoning weapons.

At level 4 you're talking 5 feats. I'm not going to count any flaws or the like. I don't use them, and as far as I've seen it's not universal. So probably something like Phalanx Fighting as one of the fighter bonus feats. Combined with Tower shields that can give your people a lot of cover, and more than make up the AC bonus from not having plate armor while still being 50% more mobile. Improved Initiative in an auto include for me. An army is going to train it's people for readiness. Since they're using lighter armor and weapons, they might have more Dex, in which means I'll probably pick up Combat Reflexes. That gives up the Fighter Bonus feats. Might take Power Attack and Improved Sunder. Armies aren't interested in Loot. But destroying your opponent's weapon (Particularly if you can't drop them in a single round) seems more intelligent on a larger scale. Plus armies fight armies. So you're less likely to run into the typical "Oh great, I have sunder and we fight nothing but animals" sort of issue.

I'm not really great at WBLmancy. So I wouldn't take a stab at it other than the basics I've lined out already.

EDIT: Excepting they also need a ranged weapon. Probably a couple of javelins is what I'd go with, or hand axes for one handed tossing. And I'd probably whip up a standard "Soldier's Kit" of items they might need. Ranging from obvious like backpacks to carry gear, bedrolls, and waterskins, to some that normally get overlooked like Shovels.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Warblade 1/ Crusader 1/ Fighter 1/ Warblade 1+
Martial Study*, Martial Study*, Combat Reflexes, Hold the Line. At 6th take Formation Expert (CW).

Maneuvers Known:
Warblade: Charging Minotaur, Stone Bones*, Douse the Flames, Leading the Attack*, Steel Wind, Battle Leader's Charge.
Crusader: Crusader's Strike, Vanguard Strike.
Maneuvers Readied:
Warblade: Stone Bones, Steel Wind, Battle Leader's Charge.
Crusader: Crusader's Strike, Vanguard Strike.
Stances Known: Punishing Stance, Martial Spirit.

Gear: +1 Breastplate, Masterwork Spiked Gauntlet of +1 Strength, Masterwork Glaive, some javelins, some single-use items such as oil of magic weapon, potion of enlarge person, psionic tattoo of force screen, etc., and mundane gear.

Note these soldiers have both Crusader's Strike and Vanguard Strike available every round even if they just used it. Every one of them can use Crusader's Strike every turn, and they all have the Crusader delayed damage pool. Opponents not using reach weapons who charge them provoke two AoOs due to Hold the Line. They threaten adjacent squares with the spiked gauntlet.

[DMVerdandi]

Light infantry? I would go with Sneak attack fighters. Since they will be in multiple numbers, flanking would become more common. Giving each of them a spear, quick loading hand crossbows, and half of them tower shields.

Heavy infantry? I would choose duskblades.

Skirmishers? Probably rangers.

[Hytheter]

Heavy Infantry? Hmm. Probably more along the lines of medium armor, rather than plate (The -10 speed is a bigger hassle than the extra AC in my book, particularly since even for Infantry crossing ground quickly is more important than +2 AC)

Medium armor reduces your speed by the same amount as heavy armor though, unless you're running.

[Firechanter]

Okay, some nice feedback already...

re Heavy Infantry: as Hytheter already pointed out, Medium Armour slows you down every bit as much as Heavy, so if we have the funds and the proficiency, I fail to see any reason why we shouldn't go Full Plate. An army shouldn't _run_, anyway.

For higher-level chars, of course, Mithral Breastplates are a great option, but for level 4 soldiers that's out of reach. So if we want unhampered speed, we're stuck with Chain Shirts.

That said, the idea of giving them Improved Sunder has its merits. Not sure how well it really works, due to the Hardness threshold.

--

Biffonacious' build is pretty hardcore. That must be a real powerhouse.
Do I get that right, with your Warblade 1 maneuvers and feats you pick away almost everything that a Crusader would qualify for, so on the Crusader level there are really just 2 maneuvers left to take? A bit cheesy, but yeah, seems valid.
The soldiers are unlikely to have 16 Dex, so assuming they have 14, the difference between a Breastplate +1 and a Full Plate is 1AC. Okay, not too bad, but might really go either way.

However, I don't think Hold the Line would give you 2 AoOs. As far as I know, any one movement can only ever draw one AoO per character. So if you take the AoO from him entering a threatened square, you don't get another one when he leaves it again.

--

I totally forgot about Duskblades. Yeah, that could also be interesting. 6 spells known, 6 spells per day, not too shabby for a meleer. Also limited to Medium Armour and possibly Light Shields, though, so the AC won't be so hot.

--

I'm trying to figure out whether Power Attack is worthwhile. After all, with a 2 handed weapon, 4 BAB makes 8 damage, and the Attack penalty may be offset by Adept bonuses, Bard Song, and stuff like that.

--

Concerning equipment, regardless of class, I'd discriminate between Light and Heavy infantry like this:

Light: Chain shirt +1, Heavy Shield, Longsword or Battleaxe, Javelins or Throwing Axes. (AC around 19, spd 30ft)

Heavy: Full Plate, Glaive, Spiked Gauntlet or Spiked Armour. (AC 19, spd 20ft)

So the AC is about the same, but Light is faster and Heavy does more damage.

More later, gotta run some errands.

[Slipperychicken]

I'm not so sure if the stat-booster is really worth it, considering all the utility equipment you can get for the same 1,000gp. Things like an arseload of Oil Flasks (i.e. grenandes), Acid Flasks, Holy Water, Tanglefoot Bags for dealing with unconventional enemies.

Wooden holy symbol (1 gold), can be used to keep a Vampire at bay.

Wooden stakes (probably really cheap) will help kill downed Vampires if they get the chance.

Liquid Light (20gp, Complete Scoundrel). Sheds light as a torch, should save you money on torches in the long run, and can't be dispelled, supressed, or extinguished.

750 gold gives you a Healing Belt, which will greatly increase a unit's endurance. I'm tempted to say replace the stat-booster with this, so every one of these guys functions as a medic too. Quick heals, 6d8 every day, no Cleric required. The charges can be used to damage undead too; very handy.

You'd want units to have ranks in Heal, even if they aren't Clerics. This way they can stabilize fallen allies and keep them from bleeding out, even if they're out of Healing Belt charges. First aid saves lives.

Ranks in Spellcraft and Knowledges will be useful for identifying threats and their weaknesses. I think having each unit spread ranks around would be best since they won't have a great modifier anyway, but also have some "specialists" with max ranks in some Knowledge skills.

Tumble ranks will help a unit avoid AoOs, Balance will help them deal with slippery terrain and Grease spells.

Since supply was historically extremely important, a unit acting far out of reach of supply lines might have an "officer" or "radio man" equipped with a Field Provisions Box (2,000gp, MiC. feeds 15 men per day), and/or a copy of Sending Stones (1,400gp, MiC. 1/day Sending) to give daily reports to HQ.

[Fouredged Sword]

Duskblades make great light infantry. For an evil empire they can get aquire familiar and improve familiar to pick up a bunch of shocker lizards to act as a nasty trap. 12d8 damage each round for a number of rounds is nasty. Get the troops enough electrical resistance and they can just tank the effect as well.

[strider24seven]

Warblade 1/ Crusader 1/ Fighter 1/ Warblade 1+
Martial Study*, Martial Study*, Combat Reflexes, Hold the Line. At 6th take Formation Expert (CW).

Maneuvers Known:
Warblade: Charging Minotaur, Stone Bones*, Douse the Flames, Leading the Attack*, Steel Wind, Battle Leader's Charge.
Crusader: Crusader's Strike, Vanguard Strike.
Maneuvers Readied:
Warblade: Stone Bones, Steel Wind, Battle Leader's Charge.
Crusader: Crusader's Strike, Vanguard Strike.
Stances Known: Punishing Stance, Martial Spirit.

Gear: +1 Breastplate, Masterwork Spiked Gauntlet of +1 Strength, Masterwork Glaive, some javelins, some single-use items such as oil of magic weapon, potion of enlarge person, psionic tattoo of force screen, etc., and mundane gear.

Note these soldiers have both Crusader's Strike and Vanguard Strike available every round even if they just used it. Every one of them can use Crusader's Strike every turn, and they all have the Crusader delayed damage pool. Opponents not using reach weapons who charge them provoke two AoOs due to Hold the Line. They threaten adjacent squares with the spiked gauntlet.

I saw the title of this thread and immediately thought "Idiot Crusaders as Spartans." But Biffoniacus super-swordsaged me there.

I recommend a group of Bards with alphorns or war drums, and have them play various Dragonfire Inspirations of different elements and a constant Inspire Courage.

[Firechanter]

Ah right, I meant to write before that of course, every soldier has a standard kit, just like most groups I know have "standard adventuring kits". All those small useful items won't bust the budget.

About the stat booster:
This +1 competing with the healing belt is a pretty good point, will have to think about that. However, it pumps Str from 17 to 18, which is +1 to attack and +2 to damage, blow for blow.
Ofc the Healing Belt is also a great thing, but for army purposes, maybe everyone rather gets a couple of Blessed Bandages for first aid.

However, I'm not sold on consumables like oils/flasks etc. You use them once, they are gone.

Let's have a look at my suggested budget again:

Stat booster: 1000 GP
MW Fullplate: 1650 GP
MW Weapon: 315 GP

That leaves us with >300 GP for all the mundane utility gear we want. Even if a unit of 15 shares a supply box, that will be around 130GP per person, still more than enough for all those little amenities.

However, food supply needn't even be magical, I think. Standard food is cheap. Just don't fall for the ripoff Trail Rations, with their 500% Idiot Adventurer Markup.
But sure, in the long run, magical food supply is actually cheaper. The food will probably the same gruel as the one described in "Create Food and Water", but you know how the old bromide goes; the better the army, the worse is the food. xD

Anyway, back to build ideas?

I was thinking of maybe skilling Skirmishers specializing in Ranged-Sundering enemy shields, but a) you need to be level 5 for the feat, and b) even then it's probably rather difficult to dish out enough damage to actually blow that shield to smithereens.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

However, I don't think Hold the Line would give you 2 AoOs. As far as I know, any one movement can only ever draw one AoO per character. So if you take the AoO from him entering a threatened square, you don't get another one when he leaves it again.

You normally get to AoO when an opponent leaves a threatened square, and this is the type that is limited to once per opponent per movement. Hold the Line lets you AoO an opponent who's charging you as soon as they enter your threatened space. It's only the target of the charge who gets to AoO the charging character, it's very specific, and it's definitely a separate instance from provoking due to movement.

[Firechanter]

Oh, interesting. Thanks for the heads-up. Well then that sounds pretty neat indeed.
So am I reading that right, with that polearm set against the charge, that's 2 attacks at x2 damage each? Might easily be enough to drop a charger (if he has to close in to 5' to attack).

[Palanan]

As a different suggestion, maybe a unit of soldiers who each have Wild Cohort and a wolf companion?

For 2100 gp, a Collar of Cleverness (from Masters of the Wild) grants three additional tricks known, if that could be useful. (Can't get to MIC right now, don't know if the Collar of Cleverness was updated or not.)

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Oh, interesting. Thanks for the heads-up. Well then that sounds pretty neat indeed.
So am I reading that right, with that polearm set against the charge, that's 2 attacks at x2 damage each? Might easily be enough to drop a charger (if he has to close in to 5' to attack).

If you set a polearm for a charge, you ready an action to hit them as soon as they come into reach. So that's the readied attack, the AoO for Hold the Line, and then the AoO for when they continue toward you to be close enough to hit with their non-reach weapon. Three hits, but only the readied attack deals double damage.

[JaronK]

Basic Heavy Infantry that I've played with:

Units of 40 (5 wide by 4 deep). 2 Binders binding Malphas, with their birds back at the command camp to receive orders. Wear Breastplates. 2 Marshals using their Auras to boost saves and AC/Attack. 2 Crusaders using Leading the Charge, 2 Crusaders using Bolstering Voice. All these 8 are in the back of the unit. 16 Crusaders using Iron Guard's Glare, 16 using Martial Spirit, alternating in a checkerboard so that everyone is adjacent to someone with IGG. Marshals and Crusaders wear Full Plate.

All members of the unit have Pikes (Kingdoms of Kalamar 15' Reach Martial Weapons) and Tower Shields (the shields are put away for close combat). All armor has Armor Spikes. They also have Longbows for Volley Fire against the enemy.

Basic result: whole unit can easily receive commands from HQ. Unit gets boosted morale (from Bolstering Voice) and a bonus on charging (from Leading the Charge) as well as huge AC (from Iron Guard's Glare and the plate mail) and has very long Reach. Tower Shields provide defense as they close on the enemy. Longbows are used to volley at the enemy when that's beneficial. Unit heals itself with Martial Spirit in combat. Damaged warriors may be cycled back in the ranks to heal up.

As an additional bonus, the command unit has Bards using different versions of Dragonfire Inspiration (Electricity, Fire, Cold, Acid, Sonic) with Masterwork War Drums (for increased damage bonus) along with standard Bards with the same. This means orders can be transmitted through drum cues (in addition to the Malphas birds) and the entire army gets +2 to hit, +10d6 elemental damage, and +2 damage on all attacks. Those pikes are extra deadly, as are the volley attacks!

JaronK

[Yukitsu]

Fighter 1, warlock 3 would be an interesting take on this theme. Eldritch spear for range, can wear full armour and use a tower shield, even in combat fairly effectively. Can take entropic warding to get a mass boost vs. projectiles for free. The DR of 1 would also make them more durable than you'd think, especially against things like arrow spam. Easy access to UMD makes using wands or scrolls to heal fairly easy and efficient.

[Firechanter]

Yeah, that's the stuff!
I notice just now that IGG does not bestow a named penalty... so you're saying that an enemy threatened by 3 IGG crusaders takes -8 to attack even if he attacks one of them? oÔ
That's pretty hilarious. =D Prolly doesn't come up often enough in party play to worry about.

Btw, 5x4=20, so you prolly meant to say 10 wide, 4 deep? 3 ranks actual combatants, 4th rank support, right?

I've also been wondering if loose formation might be attractive -- i.e, only the black squares on a checkerboard. At least if the enemy has spellcasters that lob Fireballs or other area spells -- loose formation means they only hit half as many targets.

[JaronK]

Yeah, that's the stuff!
I notice just now that IGG does not bestow a named penalty... so you're saying that an enemy threatened by 3 IGG crusaders takes -8 to attack even if he attacks one of them? oÔ

Same source, so no, you only get the -4. The point is just to spread it out so everyone benefits from it. Full Plate + Iron Guard's Glare grants an effective AC of 22 in close combat straight out of the gate, which is pretty solid. Dex 12 makes it 23. If you want, you can use Shield and Pike Style to boost the AC by another 1 point, but I don't think it's worthwhile.


Btw, 5x4=20, so you prolly meant to say 10 wide, 4 deep? 3 ranks actual combatants, 4th rank support, right?

Yes, I meant 10X4. Command in the back, and members that get injured cycle back to the third rank to be healed by Martial Spirit, allowing the whole unit to keep going without stopping.


I've also been wondering if loose formation might be attractive -- i.e, only the black squares on a checkerboard. At least if the enemy has spellcasters that lob Fireballs or other area spells -- loose formation means they only hit half as many targets.

Area spells hurt, but this unit needs to stay together to make good use of Iron Guard's Glare. However, Tower Shields mean the entire unit has Improved Evasion and a +8 bonus to reflex saves (yay cover rules!) against fireballs, so they're actually pretty safe there. Remember also that the Marshals can use their minor aura to pump Reflex Saves.

In the end, this is VERY deadly... the Crusaders are doing 1d8+10d6+2 damage even before strength bonuses apply, so they'll slaughter most enemies while easily surviving many hits. And with Leading the Charge + the level 2 Charge maneuver, they're brutal when they charge in... with Pikes and held attacks when enemies get in range, they're devastating when charged too.

JaronK

[Slipperychicken]

Area spells hurt, but this unit needs to stay together to make good use of Iron Guard's Glare. However, Tower Shields mean the entire unit has Improved Evasion and a +8 bonus to reflex saves (yay cover rules!) against fireballs, so they're actually pretty safe there. Remember also that the Marshals can use their minor aura to pump Reflex Saves.


Nothing says they have to stay in formation all the time. You can have them spread out when anticipating area attacks, then reassemble afterward. Or just drill them so they can ready move actions to evade things like grenades or artillery.

If you simply have the first line use Total Cover from tower shields, then they're more or less unhittable while the second and third ranks still get to attack.


EDIT:


However, I'm not sold on consumables like oils/flasks etc. You use them once, they are gone.


The thing is, the sheer usefulness of these consumables far outweighs the fact you'll need to replace them every so often. They let you fight unconventional opponents who could otherwise do a lot of damage to your army before going down (if your forces are capable of harming them at all!). And you'll need to have supply chains for your army anyway. Every dnd player has an irrational hatred of consumable items which only goes away with experience.

Holy water is going to be able to hurt incorporeal undead, which few 4th level NPC soldiers can normally effect, so you don't have stupidity like a single Shadow (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/shadow.htm) wiping your army. It can also be a lifesaver if you're fighting some powerful demons who laugh off conventional attacks.

Energy damage flasks are good for when you have enemies whose AC is simply too high to hit with regular attacks, or who are only targetable with area effects (like swarms for example). Oil in particular is pathetically cheap (1 silver per flask isn't going to bankrupt your military industrial complex) and is basically Alchemist Fire. There are a lot of times when you'll want grenades thrown over barriers, buildings quickly ignited from a distance, or swarms damaged. It also ignores damage reduction, which can murder a low-level character's damage output.

Tanglefoot Bags can help you keep an important foe from running away, or take a flier out of the air.

There are also some kind of paint-bombs or flour bags which can be incredibly useful for revealing invisible opponents, who are normally a huge hassle at low levels.

[Firechanter]

Okay, you've convinced me that some consumables are really good to have.

Reminds me of one time, when the enemy brought up some Golem (Iron, I think). It would have wreaked havoc because the allies weren't able to hurt it at all, but turns out they were keeping a Mighty Construct-Bane Longbow with Adamantine arrows in store, for just such an occasion. And then luckily there was a PC in the area who had the BAB required to hit the AC. ;)

By which I want to say, more expensive items don't need to be present all the time, it suffices if they are distributed quickly enough when the need arises.